Roast Problem with the Gary Ayres medal for best finals player.

[Substance]

As for people not remembering it, maybe you will not if you're a casual. I certainly remember Kennedy's 2016 finals series, Martin's 3, and how quickly have you all forgotten Steele sidebottom

22

Steele Sidebottom

Age

34

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.4

5star

K

14.1

5star

HB

13.3

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

3.7

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

24.0

5star

K

12.0

5star

HB

12.0

5star

M

4.5

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

2.3

4star

D

31.6

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

17.2

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

6.0

5star

was half the reason Richmond didn't 4 peat. They wouldn't have even made a prelim if not for him. Same for Macrae for us.

Macrae's will absolutely be remembered given the stink up it seems to have caused.

 

[Some Idiot]

If it's based on averages then Issac Heeney would be the winner based on polling maximum votes in one game. Average votes doesn't work. No way of knowing if Petracca played an extra final he could have polled 0 like Macrae did in his extra final.

 

[Substance]

I get it, you want to validate because one of your players won it, but it’s a award that is backed by no logic.

Actually I've always rated this award, and have posted about it's merit since it's inception. Have you always potted it? Wonder if you are only doing that because of who won it.

I'm not going to debate the merit of coaches votes with you or anyone right now. I rate coaches votes highly, and if you don't that's your opinion that's fine.

 

[Some Idiot]

Geelong's B&F is weighted to only include a player's top 18 (or so) games for the season - so players who miss a game or two though injury aren't disadvantaged compared to a teammate who plays all 22. Tom Stewart missed our two H&A games this season and he will absolutely benefit from this when he romps home the B&F.

Perhaps the Gary Ayres award should only factor in a maximum of three finals per player so players like Macrae this year / Dusty last year don't benefit by virtue of an extra game? If a player like Macrae polled in all 4 finals, maybe only the three higher polling games could be counted in the tally? As you point out, if this was in place this season Petracca would have won due to higher average votes per game.

Macrae polled 25 votes in his best 3 games and Petracca only polled 23 votes in his highest 3 games.

 

[demondavey]

Actually I've always rated this award, and have posted about it's merit since it's inception. Have you always potted it? Wonder if you are only doing that because of who won it.

I'm not going to debate the merit of coaches votes with you or anyone right now. I rate coaches votes highly, and if you don't that's your opinion that's fine.

But surely you see the lack of logic in an award where a player could play an additional game and have more opportunities for votes?

 

[demondavey]

As for people not remembering it, maybe you will not if you're a casual. I certainly remember Kennedy's 2016 finals series, Martin's 3, and how quickly have you all forgotten Steele sidebottom was half the reason Richmond didn't 4 peat. They wouldn't have even made a prelim if not for him. Same for Macrae for us.

Macrae's will absolutely be remembered given the stink up it seems to have caused.

Macrae winning will not be remembered. This will be remembered.

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Just piss it off. No one on earth will think of mcrae when they think of the 2021 finals even if he did play well. I’d hazard a guess that he doesn’t really care about winning it either

 

[demondavey]

Macrae polled 25 votes in his best 3 games and Petracca only polled 23 votes in his highest 3 games.

Yeah, and?

 

[deanc]

Given I, and suggest most others could easily name all Norm Smith medalists since 2017, who could honestly do the same (without Google) for Gary Ayers medalists..?

Despite supporting it's original objective, it's become an irrelevant/consolation award which it's debatable criteria/qualification demonstrates...

 

[Rotayjay]

I agree, just scrap it and keep the Norm Smith.

 

[LeverPuller]

If it's based on averages then Issac Heeney would be the winner based on polling maximum votes in one game. Average votes doesn't work. No way of knowing if Petracca played an extra final he could have polled 0 like Macrae did in his extra final.

Nah the averages rule only comes into play if it’s a 3 games v 4 games setup.

 

[demondavey]

Actually I've always rated this award, and have posted about it's merit since it's inception. Have you always potted it? Wonder if you are only doing that because of who won it.

I'm not going to debate the merit of coaches votes with you or anyone right now. I rate coaches votes highly, and if you don't that's your opinion that's fine.

I’ve genuinely never thought about it because it’s so irrelevant and meaningless.

 

[Some Idiot]

Yeah, and?

I was responding to a poster that suggested a system that takes the best three games and said Petracca would have won under such a system due to his higher average. Which is false.

 

[demondavey]

I was responding to a poster that suggested a system that takes the best three games and said Petracca would have won under such a system due to his higher average. Which is false.

Ok. He wouldn’t have won.

 

[RAPPA]

Macrae polled 25 votes in his best 3 games and Petracca only polled 23 votes in his highest 3 games.

Macrae had 4 chances to poll. If you’re going to apply the same logic then Petracca ought to have one more game to be given the opportunity to poll - if he scores 8 or higher then he equals or overtakes Macrae.

 

[demondavey]

I think we should just close this thread due to the sheer ridiculousness that this award stands for. The OP nailed it.

 

[Samdogg]

For all the people saying they don't care about it, there sure are a lot of people seething about it, especially Melbourne supporters.

You can't win them all. Macrae played a great finals series and was rightly acknowledged for it.

 

[demondavey]

For all the people saying they don't care about it, there sure are a lot of people seething about it, especially Melbourne supporters.

You can't win them all. Macrae played a great finals series and was rightly acknowledged for it.

Seething isn’t really the right word. It’s just the discussion around how illogical it is. We don’t need an award to know how good Macrae is or how critical he is to the Bulldogs. It’s just gimmicky.

 

[Samdogg]

Seething isn’t really the right word. It’s just the discussion around how illogical it is. We don’t need an award to know how good Macrae is or how critical he is to the Bulldogs. It’s just gimmicky.

You mean like the Brownlow? An award voted by umpires? Where Big Bad Oliver Wines just equaled the all-time record set by Dustin Martin?

 

[HG Pennypacker]

For all the people saying they don't care about it, there sure are a lot of people seething about it, especially Melbourne supporters.

You can't win them all. Macrae played a great finals series and was rightly acknowledged for it.

I don’t get the sense people care that much. Surely you can see it’s a bit strange when it’s an advantage to either finish 5 to 8 or finish top 4 and lose the first week? Just a bizarre award, and one I would suggest most football fans aren’t even aware exists

 

[Samdogg]

I don’t get the sense people care that much. Surely you can see it’s a bit strange when it’s an advantage to either finish 5 to 8 or finish top 4 and lose the first week? Just a bizarre award, and one I would suggest most football fans aren’t even aware exists

I think it's quite a bit stranger that Oliver Wines can equal the votes record for the Brownlow medal.

 

[demondavey]

You mean like the Brownlow? An award voted by umpires? Where Big Bad Oliver Wines just equaled the all-time record set by Dustin Martin?

Record for what? Votes? The Brownlow is a midfielders award. Who actually watches or cares about it? You know every single year that a midfielder gets it. Can you honestly tell me that of all the elite seasons of football guys like Franklin, Scarlett, Enright, Rance have all had that they have not been more worthy than Cooney and Woewodin? Think of all the elite years they’ve put together as absolute champions and ask yourself if it’s fair that they’ve not polled votes.

 

[adammania9]

Macrae should throw his medal in the bin. A nothing award.

 

[demondavey]

I think it's quite a bit stranger that Oliver Wines can equal the votes record for the Brownlow medal.

The Brownlow is rubbish as well.

 

[Samdogg]

Who actually watches or cares about it?

A lot of people?

You know every single year that a midfielder gets it. Can you honestly tell me that of all the elite seasons of football guys like Franklin, Scarlett, Enright, Rance have all had that they have not been more worthy than Cooney and Woewodin? Think of all the elite years they’ve put together as absolute champions and ask yourself if it’s fair that they’ve not polled votes.

Considering the amount of hype the award gets, along with the fact that it's constantly used in debates comparing players, I'd say it's a far more worthy subject of scrutiny than the Gary Ayres award.