Expansion Proposals for a Truly National AFL

[Tonatopia]

That's not free market. It isn't even franchise. It's arbitrary like a dictatorship.

How exactly?
It requires a minimum of 9 club's to produce a majority.
Hardly a dictatorship.

 

[RedV3x]

How exactly?

The definition of a "free market" is free movement of suppliers and consumers.
You have an artificial divisional structure - a restriction.
Look, it is good that you are looking at new structures but don't use incorrect labels as justification.

 

[Scratchy05]

Okay I would not worry about expanding the game internationally at all. The only 2 countries that make any form of sense are India, due to their sheer population size and round ovals, and New Zealand, due to how local they are and even then, the travel would be far too costly.

Personally, I'd aim to have Tassie and a 3rd Perth team in by 2025. Followed by the NT & Canberra by 2035. After that I would add 2 teams by 2040-2050. They would be two of Newcastle/Central Coast, Sydney 3, Illawarra, Sunshine Coast or Far North Queensland. The competition will settle as a 24 team competition, with each team playing each other once and then finals of 12 teams. With 1-4 getting a bye first week and 5-12 playing off. Then they will come back into quarter finals, then the semi final and then the grand final.

After this, you could look at the idea of promotion and relegation but personally, I'm not sure how on board I am for that as the thing I like about AFL is the parity in the competition and life cycle. If you remove the salary can and promotion/relegation, you lose that. I would personally just invest more into state leagues and make them a bigger deal.

 

[Tonatopia]

Okay I would not worry about expanding the game internationally at all. The only 2 countries that make any form of sense are India, due to their sheer population size and round ovals, and New Zealand, due to how local they are and even then, the travel would be far too costly.

Personally, I'd aim to have Tassie and a 3rd Perth team in by 2025. Followed by the NT & Canberra by 2035. After that I would add 2 teams by 2040-2050. They would be two of Newcastle/Central Coast, Sydney 3, Illawarra, Sunshine Coast or Far North Queensland. The competition will settle as a 24 team competition, with each team playing each other once and then finals of 12 teams. With 1-4 getting a bye first week and 5-12 playing off. Then they will come back into quarter finals, then the semi final and then the grand final.

After this, you could look at the idea of promotion and relegation but personally, I'm not sure how on board I am for that as the thing I like about AFL is the parity in the competition and life cycle. If you remove the salary can and promotion/relegation, you lose that. I would personally just invest more into state leagues and make them a bigger deal.

India?
Why would Indians be attracted to Footy, when generally speaking, they dont like full-contact sports

 

[terrybull]

India?
Why would Indians be attracted to Footy, when generally speaking, they dont like full-contact sports

India have played in 3 of the last International Cups. Only Indian players from India as well. They are steadily improving. Who says they don’t like contact sports?

 

[Tonatopia]

India have played in 3 of the last International Cups. Only Indian players from India as well. They are steadily improving. Who says they don’t like contact sports?

How many footy players of Indian background exist in Footy?
Compared to Italians, Lebonese, Turks, ect.

There culture is similar to the Chinese in a sense, that they seem not to be too interested in full contact sports.
Opposed to the Japanese, who seem to be thrilled by it.

 

[Established1870]

Give Tonatopia some credit for his dedication to what he believes in but **** me how has this reached 40 pages already?


We're not getting divisions or pro/rel, Geraldton and Bunbury are never getting teams in the AFL and the ****ing Devonport council aren't spending a gagillion dollars on a 20k stadium.


Give. It. A. Rest.

 

[terrybull]

How many footy players of Indian background exist in Footy?
Compared to Italians, Lebonese, Turks, ect.

There culture is similar to the Chinese in a sense, that they seem not to be too interested in full contact sports.
Opposed to the Japanese, who seem to be thrilled by it.

There has been no International Cup teams from Italy, Lebanon or Turkey (probably because they are so soccer fanatic countries.) So India is well ahead of these countries, as with China, Japan and South Africa. So these countries AFL should invest in (as they are already doing in Shanghai).

 

[terrybull]

Give Tonatopia some credit for his dedication to what he believes in but fu** me how has this reached 40 pages already?


We're not getting divisions or pro/rel, Geraldton and Bunbury are never getting teams in the AFL and the ******* Devonport council aren't spending a gagillion dollars on a 20k stadium.


Give. It. A. Rest.

We are keeping this thread alive by replying to his posts. Also now he is starting to delete posts he don’t like, so hurry up and read this…

 

[Tonatopia]

We are keeping this thread alive by replying to his posts. Also now he is starting to delete posts he don’t like, so hurry up and read this…

Firstly, Im not deleting anything, it is wookie.

There has been no International Cup teams from Italy, Lebanon or Turkey (probably because they are so soccer fanatic countries.) So India is well ahead of these countries, as with China, Japan and South Africa. So these countries AFL should invest in (as they are already doing in Shanghai).

Honestly, its seems most of the people on Bigfooty are bubbleheads. They can only regurgitate the official narrative, and seem uncapable of thinking for themselves.

Anyone who thinks that Chinese and Indian immigrants push their kids towards footy has rocks in their head.
The Chinese and Indian communities do not appreciate full contact warrior sports like the Christian rooted communities do. Im not sure why, but it is evident. Maybe due to the bloodlust which has happened within white culture and even Japanese culture.

 

[RedV3x]

Honestly, its seems most of the people on Bigfooty are bubbleheads. They can only regurgitate the official narrative, and seem uncapable of thinking for themselves.

the official view or the majority view ? The sensible view ? The thoughtful view.

Anyone who thinks that Chinese and Indian immigrants push their kids towards footy has rocks in their head.

Only you have said that. We're talking about people in India and China not in Australia.

The Chinese and Indian communities do not appreciate full contact warrior sports like the Christian rooted communities do. Im not sure why, but it is evident. Maybe due to the bloodlust which has happened within white culture and even Japanese culture.

Wow.That makes a much sense as your interpretation of "free market".
Probably time to close this thread. I feel a lot of deletions coming on.

 

[Aussie in exile]

There has been no International Cup teams from Italy, Lebanon or Turkey (probably because they are so soccer fanatic countries.) So India is well ahead of these countries, as with China, Japan and South Africa. So these countries AFL should invest in (as they are already doing in Shanghai).

Answer the question you was asked

 

[Underarm]

Give Tonatopia some credit for his dedication to what he believes in but fu** me how has this reached 40 pages already?

Because if we humor him in here, he's less likely to clog up the rest of the forum with his insanity.

 

[terrybull]

Firstly, Im not deleting anything, it is wookie.

Honestly, its seems most of the people on Bigfooty are bubbleheads. They can only regurgitate the official narrative, and seem uncapable of thinking for themselves.

Anyone who thinks that Chinese and Indian immigrants push their kids towards footy has rocks in their head.
The Chinese and Indian communities do not appreciate full contact warrior sports like the Christian rooted communities do. Im not sure why, but it is evident. Maybe due to the bloodlust which has happened within white culture and even Japanese culture.

sorry for accusing you deleting posts.

But why are you talking about immigrants? I’m talking about the locals in their own county developing the sport.
Seriously it seems you have no clue what is happening and the struggle of of Australian Football overseas. It’s better you concentrate what you do best at, the divisional structure and free market and leave the overseas stuff till somebody else.

 

[terrybull]

Answer the question you was asked

How would I know this number?
Yes there is more Lebanese, Turks, Italian decents playing AF in Australia than Indians, Chinese and Japanese.

But that was not my point. I meant in their own country.Yes AF has started in Italy and Lebanon (not sure of Turkey) but Indian, Chinese,Japanese AF is more developed at this stage it seems…

 

[Scratchy05]

India?
Why would Indians be attracted to Footy, when generally speaking, they dont like full-contact sports

Poorer country who if internationals came in as "superstars" to communities, then they could potentially gain some traction. Personally, I'd just keep the game as Australian.

 

[RedV3x]

Poorer country who if internationals came in as "superstars" to communities, then they could potentially gain some traction.

India is probably the country that is best set up to develop Australian Football.
It has the population. The oval stadiums. It is open to football and has a template in BBL.

Personally, I'd just keep the game as Australian.

A strange sentiment. Would you stop using international players ?
Would you stop the various AFL programs around the world ?
What ware you going to do with 55 countries that regularly play Australian Football ?

If and Indian league did take off then that would provide a lot of employment for Australians.

 

[Scratchy05]

India is probably the country that is best set up to develop Australian Football.
It has the population. The oval stadiums. It is open to football and has a template in BBL.



A strange sentiment. Would you stop using international players ?
Would you stop the various AFL programs around the world ?
What ware you going to do with 55 countries that regularly play Australian Football ?

If and Indian league did take off then that would provide a lot of employment for Australians.

I don't think the AFL has the money to invest internationally until we fully establish AFL across all states in Australia

 

[RedV3x]

I don't think the AFL has the money to invest internationally until we fully establish AFL across all states in Australia.

Firstly, the AFL in usual circumstances, has a lot of revenue and it's question of the breakup of that revenue pie.
What percentage to - players, clubs, grassroots, development, infrastructure, special projects etc.
It's not so much the money unless you compare it to the say, NFL.
The AFL could easily lower costs by introducing spending caps across the board.

Secondly, the AFL does invest internationally and has done for a very long time.
It typically chooses projects with a high benefit to cost ratio but there have been exceptions.
The spending on development within Australia is already costed and we are well past the costly initial phase
and into significant return phase.

Thirdly, the development in Australian Football across the world has mostly been achieved by "organic development".
About 55 countries play Australian Football in regular competition and that has been the result of hard work by volunteers.
The AFL has been involved in some high profile developments, but only a handful.
The AFL has leveraged good results by going into partnerships, usually aid money.
The AFL has leveraged excellent results with relatively small investments in targeted areas.
BUT, predominantly and overwhelmingly the development of Australian Football overseas is due to the hard work of volunteers
supported by other volunteers.

If we take India for example, there is significant development there in total but not in proportion because it is highly populated.
India would be an ideal place to leverage development by the AFL.
Many pundits prefer India over all others bar New Zealand.

The best example of leverage is in Canada, where a small amount of money has allowed Australian Football to be introduced into some school systems and it is the aim of AFL Canada to get the numbers up to a point where Australian Football is recorded as an official sport of Canada.
The AFL has also leveraged good results off of development officers in Europe and in organising AFL Asia.

 

[Scratchy05]

Firstly, the AFL in usual circumstances, has a lot of revenue and it's question of the breakup of that revenue pie.
What percentage to - players, clubs, grassroots, development, infrastructure, special projects etc.
It's not so much the money unless you compare it to the say, NFL.
The AFL could easily lower costs by introducing spending caps across the board.

Secondly, the AFL does invest internationally and has done for a very long time.
It typically chooses projects with a high benefit to cost ratio but there have been exceptions.
The spending on development within Australia is already costed and we are well past the costly initial phase
and into significant return phase.

Thirdly, the development in Australian Football across the world has mostly been achieved by "organic development".
About 55 countries play Australian Football in regular competition and that has been the result of hard work by volunteers.
The AFL has been involved in some high profile developments, but only a handful.
The AFL has leveraged good results by going into partnerships, usually aid money.
The AFL has leveraged excellent results with relatively small investments in targeted areas.
BUT, predominantly and overwhelmingly the development of Australian Football overseas is due to the hard work of volunteers
supported by other volunteers.

If we take India for example, there is significant development there in total but not in proportion because it is highly populated.
India would be an ideal place to leverage development by the AFL.
Many pundits prefer India over all others bar New Zealand.

The best example of leverage is in Canada, where a small amount of money has allowed Australian Football to be introduced into some school systems and it is the aim of AFL Canada to get the numbers up to a point where Australian Football is recorded as an official sport of Canada.
The AFL has also leveraged good results off of development officers in Europe and in organising AFL Asia.

The AFL has shown it can be sustainable as a purely Australian sport. What we are doing right now works, and international sport should take a back seat until the AFL is a truly national competition when the Australian structure is the best it can be and right now, it isn't there so I dont want to increase international spending as it is a high cost, low reward investment, particularly in a post-covid world.

My biggest concern is that I honestly don't see the point expanding overseas when so many countries already have established sports. THere is a precisely 0% chance that Footy ever makes it in Europe. With Soccer being so dominant along with the rise of Tennis, Basketball and even sports such as handball having high popularity, it would be a waste of resources to expand overseas while the game hasn't been fully established in Australia. I honestly don't see why we need to bother in the next 50 years.

Even if these countries play Footy, under 1% of the population probably even know what it is, and will fail to properly develop the proper skills to make it to the AFL, unless we take a larger chunk out of development in Australia, which I fundamentally think is a bad idea as Australia always was, is and will be the money maker for ever.

 

[RedV3x]

The AFL has shown it can be sustainable as a purely Australian sport.

That's pretty unexciting. Gaelic Football has shown it can be sustainable as a purely as an amateur sport. Is that what you want.

What we are doing right now works, and international sport should take a back seat until the AFL is a truly national competition when the Australian structure is the best it can be and right now,

What the AFL is doing doing now does work. That doesn't mean it couldn't do better.
What international football are you suggesting that should take a back seat ?

I dont want to increase international spending as it is a high cost, low reward investment, particularly in a post-covid world.

What spending on international football are you refering to ?

My biggest concern is that I honestly don't see the point expanding overseas when so many countries already have established sports.

What is your concern with expanding apart from some ficticious cost. ?

THere is a precisely 0% chance that Footy ever makes it in Europe.

Well Australian football is in Europe and there are numerous international football competitions.
Europe is a good environment for Australian Football because there are a lot of nations eager
to play Australian football against each other for national pride.
That is one of the attractions of playing Australian Football overseas - playing for your country.

it would be a waste of resources to expand overseas while the game hasn't been fully established in Australia.

Exactly what resources do you think that AFL are expending overseas ?

Even if these countries play Footy, under 1% of the population probably even know what it is, and will fail to properly develop the proper skills to make it to the AFL.

Who cares about AFL ? People enjoy playing Australian Football and they enjoy playing it the way it should be played.

unless we take a larger chunk out of development in Australia, which I fundamentally think is a bad idea as Australia always was, is and will be the money maker for ever.

The "money-makers" come from community football and unless the AFL recognises this the AFL will get further and further away
from Australian Football. Despite all the law changes made by the AFL to combat AFL coaching strategies. Australian Football is still played the same way
in Australian communities and overseas. The AFL has to get away from the AFL resources price spiral and start capping AFL club expenditure to focus on grassroots football, grassroots football that could be anywhere in Australia.

 

[Tonatopia]

I don't think the AFL has the money to invest internationally until we fully establish AFL across all states in Australia

In a free market divisional system, the AFL does not need to invest a cent. Entrepreneurship will spread the game, and broadcasters like ESPN will spread the news.

Bubble heads can't see past their AFL overlords.
It is the AFL who is restricting our growth via their fixed license closed centralised system.

If we had an open divisional system and an Indian billionaire wanted to float a side, then they can. And if they want to sell their broadcast rights to Indian TV, then let them do it.

Fmd, wake up people.

 

[RedV3x]

If we had ...... an Indian billionaire who wanted to float a side, then they can.

That's right, if we had an Indian billionaire who wanted to float a side, then they can.

Yes nothing to do with the AFL, Australia, free market, closed market, divisional structure or franchise.

 

[Tonatopia]

That's right, if we had an Indian billionaire who wanted to float a side, then they can.

Yes nothing to do with the AFL, Australia, free market, closed market, divisional structure or franchise.

It makes it plenty easier if they could enter in Div4 and work their way up, instead of having to beg the AFL for a licence, then have to fit into the egalitarian equalisation doctrine, only to be told that trade and investment is restricted by the AFL. And the new club has no access to the broadcast rights within their own territory.

Potential investors would look at us and laugh.

 

[Tonatopia]

That's right, if we had an Indian billionaire who wanted to float a side, then they can.

Yes nothing to do with the AFL, Australia, free market, closed market, divisional structure or franchise.

Mate, we can't even launch a team in Hobart.
Wake up.