Expansion Proposals for a Truly National AFL

[ExpatAussie]

You can only work in any 'workplace' if you follow the company rules.

Join the Defence Forces & you could be posted anywhere,

You are free to not join the Defence Forces or play in the AFL. If you want to, you have to follow the rules as they is.

Simple.

It has to be that way in the defence force.

However, it does NOT have to be that way in Footy. You should be allowed to live in your home town and play for the team you love, if good enough. These are virtues we should espouse, not condemn.

 

[megadeth86]

It has to be that way in the defence force.

However, it does NOT have to be that way in Footy. You should be allowed to live in your home town and play for the team you love, if good enough. These are virtues we should espouse, not condemn.

I agree. I can't stand the draft and refuse to ever read about it or discuss it. Even the word has Vietnam War connotations. And as a Carlton fan, I liked the 1967-85 period, thanks very much. I don't like the 2000-today period.

 

[RedV3x]

You should be allowed to live in your home town and play for the team you love, if good enough.

You are. But if you wish to play for a professional club in a national league then you have responsibilities.
You should be able to get drunk and behave outrageously - nah - you have responsibilities.
Any indescretion sees a player potentially in limbo.

The conditions for FIFO workers are much much more severe than for professional football players
and workers accept that.

Toughen up princess.

 

[ExpatAussie]

You are. But if you wish to play for a professional club in a national league then you have responsibilities.
You should be able to get drunk and behave outrageously - nah - you have responsibilities.
Any indescretion sees a player potentially in limbo.

The conditions for FIFO workers are much much more severe than for professional football players
and workers accept that.

Toughen up princess.

Nope, what one does in their private lives, opinions and actions, so long that they are legal, should be their own prerogative.

Remember the 80’s?

Go woke, go broke.

 

[The_Wookie]

Nope, what one does in their private lives, opinions and actions, so long that they are legal, should be their own prerogative.

Remember the 80’s?

Go woke, go broke.

And if a private owned and run competition declines to have a team in their town they have the choice not to nominate for the draft. No one is holding a gun to their head.

 

[Seedsfan]

It has to be that way in the defence force.

However, it does NOT have to be that way in Footy. You should be allowed to live in your home town and play for the team you love, if good enough. These are virtues we should espouse, not condemn.

So let’s give every town in Aus a professional team so nobody has to move to play. Come on pal you are that far from it.

 

[ExpatAussie]

So let’s give every town in Aus a professional team so nobody has to move to play. Come on pal you are that far from it.

You don't 'give' anyone anything. You allow them to earn it, by offering them the opportunity to participate by funding their own venture.

 

[RedV3x]

You don't 'give' anyone anything. You allow them to earn it, by offering them the opportunity to participate by funding their own venture.

In a society you have every freedom within the boundaries of that society.
We live in a society where majority rules - most people except that and try to get the majority on their side.

On a side note, there is nothing stopping you establish your own professional football league.

 

[RedV3x]

But do they have access to pick the best young players in the comp.

Any new football league would have full access to any uncontracted football player.
You could for example buy the WAFL and SANFL and start the New Holland Football league.

 

[RedV3x]

It’d be nice. But I suspect the AFL .......

What's this got to do with "there is nothing stopping you establish your own professional football league."

Your anti-AFL agenda is getting tiresome and people are now over what you want to continue.

 

[Coolangatta]

My proposal for a truly national AFL would be simple: team 19 in Tassie, team 20 NT, relocate GWS to Canberra. Every state and territory has a team then. And since half the teams are Victorian, only half the GFs should be at the MCG.

 

[RedV3x]

My proposal for a truly national AFL would be simple: team 19 in Tassie, team 20 NT, relocate GWS to Canberra. Every state and territory has a team then. And since half the teams are Victorian, only half the GFs should be at the MCG.

With 20 teams = 10 Victorian teams + 10 non-Victorian teams.
Play each team once for 19 game season + breaks + S.O.O. + I.R.S.
Two conferences AFL + VFL = two premiers and a supebowl champion.
The VFL returns to Victoria - traditionalists are satisfied as the G.F. is always at the MCG and records return to the VFL.
The AFL and the superbowl are stage around Australia making the game truly national.

 

[Coolangatta]

With 20 teams = 10 Victorian teams + 10 non-Victorian teams.
Play each team once for 19 game season + breaks + S.O.O. + I.R.S.
Two conferences AFL + VFL = two premiers and a supebowl champion.
The VFL returns to Victoria - traditionalists are satisfied as the G.F. is always at the MCG and records return to the VFL.
The AFL and the superbowl are stage around Australia making the game truly national.

I'd prefer every team plays each other once in a balanced fixture that's reversed each year. No Collingwood playing in Perth twice and vice versa, and no interstate team playing more than 5 Victorian teams at home or away.

After the first 19 rounds, a weighted return fixture of five rounds: 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, you play two teams in your grouping and one in each of the other. So you still get 2x western derbies etc.

Have two byes, one after round 10 and one after round 19 so the AFL has time to organise the remaining five return games.

edit: could arguably relocate North to Bendigo in the future and the Dogs to Ballarat. Saints could sell 2-3 games to Cairns and 1 in Townsville if they need the money. Or if the Suns grow, they play a couple games in Cairns and Townsville.

 

[Coolangatta]

They should have relocated two of the Bulldogs/Saints/Roos to the Gold Coast and Western Sydney in 2011/12 and one of them to Canberra later on. Team 17 Tassie early-mid 2020s and another team in the NT by the 2030s. 18 team competition with every state and territory having a team.

 

[megadeth86]

What's this got to do with "there is nothing stopping you establish your own professional football league."

Your anti-AFL agenda is getting tiresome and people are now over what you want to continue.

I enjoy someone who doesn't just think thoughts permitted by the AFL. And I would prefer this thread over another "who is the Big 3 or Big 4?"

 

[RedV3x]

I enjoy someone who doesn't just think thoughts permitted by the AFL. And I would prefer this thread over another "who is the Big 3 or Big 4?"

I enjoy debates with reasoning with facts and figures being a bonus.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Just wanted to voice my opinion this topic briefly, in regards to how the AFL should handle expansion in the future.

The more we hear about Tasmania trying to gain a license in the competition and Darwin trying to find support in its expansion bid, the more you would think that the next two “standalone” teams that will enter the AFL competitions by the late 2020s - early 2030s will be Hobart/Tasmania and Darwin/Northern Territory (rightly or wrongly decision).

However, once the 19th & 20th teams are filled in 5-10 years time, then things will start become interesting in how is the best way to expand the AFL competitions to provide more representation of cities/towns around the country, while also not wanting to dilute the professionalism of the AFL competitions even further then it is now and in the future.

Personally for me and many other non-Victorian supporters as well, there are just too many teams located in Victoria and even though it isn’t a massive issue right now, the competition cannot sustain adding more non-Victorian clubs with brand new labels attached to them due to the massive cost associated with creating teams from scratch, the financial stress the AFL have now with propping up the Gold Coast/Western Sydney expansion era & the dilution the player depth of the AFL competitions even further (as stated before).

That's why I wouldn’t be surprised if the AFL decides to go down that route of relocation Victorian clubs in our lifetime again (at the very least), as there is not enough talent in Australia to have more than 22-24 teams in the AFL during that period and would help increase the financial dollar from broadcasting networks and sponsorship partners from all across the country from representation of elite clubs competing from all states/territories, while helping the AFL continue their reign as being the Number 1 winter sporting code in Australia over other sports such as Rugby League, Rugby Union & Soccer, who will slowly expand into AFL-state markets in the future in their own right.

For my proposed format as mentioned, SA3 & WA3 would have their own teams given their past history of the sport in the SANFL/WAFL competitions and semi-professional clubs, while ACT, North Queensland/QLD3 & NSW3 (Northern Sydney) would have relocated/merged teams from Victoria (North Melbourne, St. Kilda, Western Bulldogs) to help grow the sport in those non-AFL rusted states while having a slight but significant presence in Victoria similar to what South Melbourne & Fitzroy did with Sydney and Brisbane.

As a result of that happening, you would have the following teams being part of the AFL Men's/AFL Women's Competitions:

PROPOSED AFLM/AFLW COMPETITION
Adelaide Crows (SA) | Brisbane Lions (QLD) | Canberra Bulldogs (ACT) | Carlton Blues (VIC) | Collingwood Magpies (VIC) | Darwin Larrakias (NT) | Essendon Bombers (VIC) | Fremantle Dockers (WA) | Geelong Cats (VIC) | Gold Coast Suns (QLD) | Hawthorn Hawks (VIC) | Melbourne Demons (VIC) | North Queensland Saints (QLD) | Northern Sydney Kangaroos (NSW) | Norwood Scorpions (SA) | Perth Rangers (WA) | Port Adelaide Power (SA) | Richmond Tigers (VIC) | Sydney Swans (NSW) | Tasmania Devils (TAS) | West Coast Eagles (WA) | Western Sydney Giants (NSW)

As a result of those Victorian clubs relocating interstate, you would then only have 22 teams (compared to 25 teams if all current clubs are still around + new clubs being created from scratch) and can then have a full 25 week season (23 games each team play ) + 5 week finals series (Top 10 teams) with the following regular season/finals format:

• Every team plays each other once (21 rounds/weeks) (11/10 home games + 10/11 away games)* (1x THU / 2x FRI / 4x SAT / 3x SUN / 1x MON)
• Play state-group rivals twice (NSW, QLD, SA, VIC, WA, ROA)^ (2 rounds/weeks) (1x home game + 1x away game)
• Weekly international break period/state-rivalry group bye (2 rounds/weeks)
• Top 10 finals series (5 rounds/weeks)

*- Clubs that play 11 home games during the season would sell 1 game to an overseas market to ensure the game’s growth outside of Australia with the other clubs (who only played 10 home games in that season) in following year to ensure complete fairness of all clubs being able to host an international match over a 2 year cycle.

^- Rest of Australia state-group would consist of the Canberra, Darwin & Tasmania clubs.

The grand final would also be held in the state's highest capacity stadium of the highest placed ranking seed (providing it has a minimum crowd capacity of 50,000), which would work something like this in 30-40 years (if planned successfully) for example:

• Melbourne Cricket Ground (Capacity: 120,000)-(Home Team Rights: All Victorian Teams)
• Perth Stadium (Capacity: 80,000)-(Home Team Rights: All Western Australian Teams)
• Adelaide Oval (Capacity: 70,000)-(Home Team Rights: All South Australian Teams)
• Sydney Cricket Ground (Capacity: 60,000)-(Home Team Rights: All New South Wales Teams + Canberra/ACT Team)
• Brisbane Cricket Ground (a.k.a GABBA) (Capacity: 55,000)-(Home Team Rights: All Queensland Teams + Darwin/Northern Territory Team)
• Hobart Stadium (a.k.a Regatta Point) (Capacity: 50,000)-(Home Team Rights: Hobart/Tasmania AFL Team)

The other main key points that are essential to making this proposed truly national AFL competitions for both male/female counterparts be successful for all states & territories around the country, would be to:

1. Creating a mid-season trade period alongside the mid-season draft, which would run throughout the weekly international break for clubs to provide content for AFL supporters during the bye period. The team's draft position would go in order of where they are placed at the end of the half-way mark of the season/international break and can only select players if they have picks in the draft from mid-season trades or long-term injury replacements (in-active list) at the club.
   
   
2. Introducing a draft-lottery at the end of season draft for the bottom 12 clubs, to prevent any teams from tanking on later in the season to ensure they get a high selection at draft night. After those 12 teams have had their picks & selections, the draft order would continue as normal with each club having to now select a minimum of 2 selections and can draft up to 7 players as well (5 rounds) with the initial contracts from each draftee increasing from 2 to 3 years as well. Rookie draft would also take place during Day 2 of the draft period as well with the order being dependent on the end of season ladder standings (2 rounds).
   
   
3. Having the End of Season awards, Hall of Fame ceremony, Charity matches & Grand-Final celebrations being held on the Grand Final Week in the home team's state to help build occasion and celebration in the state for all the players, coaches & supporters involved, while also helping increase the financial revenue for the AFL & state tourism sector as a result of spectators & locals spending money on holidays & tourist destinations during that week.
   
   
4. Forming the AFL Reserves Competition for all elite AFL clubs to participate in and help ensure reserve/young players get an equal & fair opportunity to develop & ply their trade against other athletic-gifted players and press their case for selection of their AFL club in the future with good performances in the league below.
   
   
5. Revamping the semi-professional competitions (VFL/SANFL/WAFL/NEAFL/TFL) to help provide more quality talented/young players entering the AFL system and creating more interest in the lower leagues below for spectators/supporters to enjoy. The VFL (as a result of the creation of the AFL Reserves), can become the premier semi-professional competition of Victorian AFL again (compared to what is now) and clubs such as Footscray, North Melbourne, St. Kilda (that were relocated) would help bring much needed interest into that competition again alongside historical clubs like Coburg, Port Melbourne & Williamstown and regional representation like Ballart, Bendigo & Gippsland for some examples of clubs in the Victorian Football League system.
   
   
6. Providing a more clearer & accessible pathway for ALL players, coaches & umpires alike from ALL ages, genders & abilities no matter where they are living in Australia, to be provide them the chance and opportunity to go through the ranks from community leagues to district leagues to semi-professional/underage state carnivals to the AFL competitions (if standard of performance is good) and this would help increase the representation of players, coaches & umpires from all states & territories around the country (especially in non-AFL rusted ones) as a result.

In conclusion, I know it’s quite radical and controversial my format and given it’s a sensitive topic given the relevant relocations/mergers with South Melbourne & Fitzroy in the past 30-40 years, I didn’t want to make it out of spite and hating on those small clubs in Victoria because I know there are so many passionate supporters from those clubs that are loyal from the good to bad days in the footy world.

However, unless the AFL keeps those small Victorian clubs in the long-term future and start introducing conferences instead (which would be even worse IMO), it might just be the only real option the AFL might have to ensure that their competitions are growing more nationally on a supporter & financial level and the talent drain of players/coaches doesn't dilute significantly over time as a result of creating brand new licenses in non-AFL rusted states/territories.

 

[Coolangatta]

^ That’s a brilliant, hell of a thought out plan. I’d go North Queensland Bulldogs, Northern Sydney Saints and Canberra Kangaroos instead but otherwise that’s superb. And Northern Territory Crocodiles.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

^ That’s a brilliant, hell of a thought out plan. I’d go North Queensland Bulldogs, Northern Sydney Saints and Canberra Kangaroos instead but otherwise that’s superb. And Northern Territory Crocodiles.

Thanks , the only reason I chose Bulldogs as the “Canberra” team was because their past history with ACT in the 2000s and the weather being stereotyping British over there, so the bulldog seemed like a good fit with all that although Kangaroos was also the other option I had as that Canberra mascot as well so I wouldn’t be against it at all being like that, as well as the rest of your teams names you said

Another critical point that I didn’t get to address in that proposal as well in my proposed AFL competition of mine due to the longevity of the last post, was the split home game model (that is used today) that some non-Victorian clubs would have to use to help generate more financial revenue and help gain more support and following from spectators, members & sponsors alike in non AFL-represented towns at their football club.

Some interstate-based clubs that would most likely use a split home-game model to help ensure their survival in the AFL competitions by having an extra source of financial revenue and having more opportunities to gain support from people & sponsors alike in non-AFL represented cities/towns, include:*

• Canberra Bulldogs (10x Canberra & 1x Wagga Wagga)
• Darwin Larrakias (8x Darwin & 3x Alice Springs)
• Gold Coast Suns (9x Gold Coast & 2x Sunshine Coast)
• North Queensland Saints (7x Cairns & 4x Townsville)
• Northern Sydney Kangaroos (8x Northern Sydney & 3x Newcastle)
• Tasmania Devils (7x Hobart & 4x Launceston)
• Western Sydney Giants (8x Western Sydney & 3x Illawarra/Wollongong)

*- Every team’s primary home ground would have spectator capacity of at least 30,000 (at a minimum) whereas clubs that have to spilt home-games to ensure survival would have secondary home grounds that have a spectator capacity of 15,000 (at a minimum). The primary & secondary stadiums of teams can increase their capacity over time (when the time is right) as well to help increase the club’s supporter base and financial revenue over the long-run.

^- This also excludes the “home” international match that every team in the competition would host once over a two year cycle to help gain interest and support of their team, outside of Australia (which would still be proposed as before).

 

[pz5151]

The VAFA divisional league is the most stable and Powerful in Victoria. Pro/Rel is deeply rooted in our game, and the fixed licenses are the contrived versions.

Plus, AFL players are playing at a fraction of the price of top tier soccer players.

Geraldton and Warrnambool are rich areas, with a base population pool of around 50kand growing and could make good Div4 club's.

Aren''t VAFA clubs almost entirely based around which private school you went to?

 

[Coolangatta]

The AFL needs to see that, to see how it’s done. At least you have a vision. What I’d do is expand the competition to 21 teams of 21 rounds (everyone playing each other once). New clubs in Tassie, NT, ACT.

If these new clubs are doing well while the Vic clubs are waning, and I wanted a team 3 in NSW and QLD, then I’m using relocation (Bulldogs to Nth QLD and North to North Sydney). Then add in new clubs to WA and SA. So that’s 23 teams, 23 rounds. I think you said 22-24 is about the max and I’d agree with that mainly because of fixtures and we don’t want conferences (I know I don’t).

Also I think I’d have the WA team be the Western Bushrangers based in Perth but playing some games up in Joondalup and down to Busselton.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The AFL needs to see that, to see how it’s done. At least you have a vision. What I’d do is expand the competition to 21 teams of 21 rounds (everyone playing each other once). New clubs in Tassie, NT, ACT.

If these new clubs are doing well while the Vic clubs are waning, and I wanted a team 3 in NSW and QLD, then I’m using relocation (Bulldogs to Nth QLD and North to North Sydney). Then add in new clubs to WA and SA. So that’s 23 teams, 23 rounds. I think you said 22-24 is about the max and I’d agree with that mainly because of fixtures and we don’t want conferences (I know I don’t).

Also I think I’d have the WA team be the Western Bushrangers based in Perth but playing some games up in Joondalup and down to Busselton.

You keep going on and on about this national competition you want and also keep bringing up getting rid of or merging Vic clubs.

I think you will find, your version of a nation league would go bankrupt, get rid of Melbourne teams, then you are watering down tv revenue, Melbourne is where the money is.

We need to wait for at least another 50 years IMO before 1 or both the Queensland and or NSW market takes off, before even thinking about getting rid of Vic supporters.

 

[Coolangatta]

You keep going on and on about this national competition you want and also keep bringing up getting rid of or merging Vic clubs.

I think you will find, your version of a nation league would go bankrupt, get rid of Melbourne teams, then you are watering down tv revenue, Melbourne is where the money is.

We need to wait for at least another 50 years IMO before 1 or both the Queensland and or NSW market takes off, before even thinking about getting rid of Vic supporters.

It’s only one avenue. I’d expand to 21 teams (ACT, TAS, NT). Rest on that for a while, and if the Queensland and NSW markets explode, those minnow Vic clubs will be in trouble if they aren’t successful. Who knows what’ll happen.

If those Vic clubs aren’t struggling and the new markets are strong, we’ll probably end up with 25 teams playing 25 rounds, but all clubs will need to take one week off in addition to their one bye each for such a long season.

 

[madmug]

It’s only one avenue. I’d expand to 21 teams (ACT, TAS, NT). Rest on that for a while, and if the Queensland and NSW markets explode, those minnow Vic clubs will be in trouble if they aren’t successful. Who knows what’ll happen.

If those Vic clubs aren’t struggling and the new markets are strong, we’ll probably end up with 25 teams playing 25 rounds, but all clubs will need to take one week off in addition to their one bye each for such a long season.

The AFL would want to be careful as in any business, expanding quickly has its own risks.

People tend to worry about the new team being a risk, thats natural. However the older clubs are also at risk if not run properly or run into longer term economic problem. Having 10 clubs in one market shows that problem right now.

The US NFL are nearly all privately owned, as such they can, & did move to growing markets. ie Chicago Cardinals became St Louis Cardinals, then Arizona Cardinals.

Membership based clubs can't so easily 'relocate' as seen by North Melbourne. Because of that, the League can't always do what may be best for the game, or the league.

It'll be interesting with the Tas decision & the media contracts all on the near horizon.

 

[Coolangatta]

It’s all just speculation in the end. If Tassie gets a 19th licence (I bloody hope so), I suspect and I could be wrong, that they’ll look to Canberra next. They might try to move North there, but are less likely to since 20 teams = 10 games = more broadcast revenue. Beyond that, who knows. But this expansion can’t go on forever and hopefully the AFL will have had some discussion about a maximum number, say around the 22-24 team mark. But if QLD and NSW are on their expansion radar, that probably doesn’t bode well for the long term future of some Vic clubs. We’ll see.