The Law PSO's - what the hell?

[Bosun]

I admit I don't catch PT all that often but knowing in advance I was going to have a few lagers anyway, playing it safe and getting PT home. Just seen a taxi driver issued a fine outside of Flinders ST issued a fine for pulling up, with engine idling waiting to get in the popular taxi queue outside of Flinders St, as far as I'm aware from your bullshit PR promos that ain't your ****ing job!!

I actually approached the cabbie and asked what it was all about and was then approached by two PSO's telling me to leave it alone.

I didn't mind this initiative (though guns are overkill) but in honesty, just another fee collecting, overpowered assholes.

**** you VIC Libs, complete abuse of power!? Poor bloke was just trying to do a shitty job with
Bugger all protection and you deal him this, disgraceful.

 

[knife]

I'm not sure the reason the cabbie got fined but the PSOs designated places include the train station itself along with any carparks and any road/throughfare that accesses the station and anywhere near the train station that services buses or taxis. I don't think they can move you on for asking what the fine is about though?

I do agree they are eventually going to become defacto fee generating ticket inspectors though, especially after reading this today http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/fare-evasion-blitz-on-trams-buses-20130424-2ie3s.html

 

[Relativity]

PSO ?

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Protective Services Officers (cash collecting tools of the state), similar to Authorised Officers but with six weeks training and guns.

 

[PottSie2]

The majority of regular train users such as myself are very happy to see them on the platforms and trains.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

The majority of regular train users such as myself are very happy to see them on the platforms and trains.

I wouldn't dispute that.

 

[PottSie2]

Was the taxi in the rank or waiting to get into the rank ? That area is particularly dangerous given the mix of pedestrians, cars, taxis and bikes.

You said waiting to get into the rank.

Bit of a shit thread having a go at PSO's considering how little you catch PT.

 

[Bosun]

Was the taxi in the rank or waiting to get into the rank ? That area is particularly dangerous given the mix of pedestrians, cars, taxis and bikes.

You said waiting to get into the rank.

Bit of a shit thread having a go at PSO's considering how little you catch PT.

Pottsie,

I have never been against the idea of having visible PSO's on the train system (however arming them was never a good idea). I supported the initiative in the aim of providing a safer environment on public transport for commuters. What I saw last night was bullshit, if PSO's and their designated cop buddies are there for nothing but handing out fines then its a failure of an initiative.

And this was the Flinders st taxi rank, where apparently if you line up and idle too long in a loading zone, you cope 5 cops/PSO's just waiting to fine you. Bystander steps in and politely asks what the issue is? "Not your problem, move away".


This simply isn't the aim of the initiative. It's revenue raising bullshit.

 

[PottSie2]

Pottsie,

I have never been against the idea of having visible PSO's on the train system (however arming them was never a good idea). I supported the initiative in the aim of providing a safer environment on public transport for commuters. What I saw last night was bullshit, if PSO's and their designated cop buddies are there for nothing but handing out fines then its a failure of an initiative.

And this was the Flinders st taxi rank, where apparently if you line up and idle too long in a loading zone, you cope 5 cops/PSO's just waiting to fine you. Bystander steps in and politely asks what the issue is? "Not your problem, move away".


This simply isn't the aim of the initiative. It's revenue raising bullshit.

So was he in the rank ? Or waiting to get in it. If he's waiting to get in it, then good on them for fining him. That area is a mess with bikes, pedestrians, cars and trams all waiting to get into an accident.

I highly doubt that he copped a fine while actually in the rank for just waiting there for passenger.

 

[Pessimistic]

Welcome to the fine state.

Theyre talking about on the spot fines for kids taking a day off school now

That'll be a revenue raiser within 6 months of starting

 

[Caesar]

I suppose the rationale is that if you are going to have them there, they may as well be empowered to issue fines for any infringements they see.

Can anybody provide a bit more information on what powers PSOs have? My frame of reference is the grey-uniformed Transit Officers in NSW. They are there in a duel enforcement/protection role. However they don't have powers of search/arrest, can't demand identification, don't carry firearms, and can only issue fines for rail-related offences.

Even so there have been repeated concerns about the conduct of TOs by the Ombudsman. As a result they are slowly being phased out and replaced with police officers.

The PSOs in Victoria seems to me like a poorly thought-out initiative. They strike me as cut-price policemen, much the same as transit cops in the US used to be. Even the US eventually realised that this wasn't a great attitude to have towards people carrying firearms, and transit police have gradually been absorbed into the 'proper' police departments over the last few decades. I am not sure why we are going in the other direction.

 

[Pessimistic]

Its good to feel safe from the dregs of soceity, but what if they are put in a uniform, given a gun and given license to terrorise the public legally.

You dont feel that safe in a police state

 

[Fire]

only related due to fines, but I got a BS parking fine for parking in a spot which was perfectly fine, and had absilutley no indication that a fine would be issued for parkign there. Since recieving the fine I have been scouting the location,a nd every secod day there is a car parked in the same spot. There is no suprise that there isn't a no parking sign there; they would make a fortune off it.

I wouldn't mind so much, but the fine was $141, which is completley insane. I would cop less trying to illegally smuggle banned food items through customs.

It's just unethical revenue raising, and it doesn't matter how cautious or respectful you are. They will get you every now and then.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

I suppose the rationale is that if you are going to have them there, they may as well be empowered to issue fines for any infringements they see.

Makes sense doesn't it?
Over the course of time(/govs) SOPs and KPIs will evolve though and the trend is rarely ever less regulation.
London to a brick:
- their infringement revenue will grow out of proportion to increase in patronage over the next few years,
- the day will come when these guys are dragged in to their supes office to explain their lack of bookings - AO style.

If you have pressing budgetary considerations and can delegate the power to issue infringement invoices what else is a minister gonna do?

 

[Bosun]

So was he in the rank ? Or waiting to get in it. If he's waiting to get in it, then good on them for fining him. That area is a mess with bikes, pedestrians, cars and trams all waiting to get into an accident.

I highly doubt that he copped a fine while actually in the rank for just waiting there for passenger.

To be honest I view it as irrelevant, The PSO initiative was not designed or sold to the public as this. For the record it was a cop that issued the fine that was minding the PSO's, so I admit I am technically incorrect, still think its bullshit though.

 

[Pessimistic]

Some disturbing reports about pso s asking for pe rsonal information from random people

 

[JRoo]

Some disturbing reports about pso s asking for pe rsonal information from random peopleView attachment 16580

This?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/psos-asking-too-many-questions-20130426-2ik8z.html

PSOs 'asking too many questions'

Date
April 27, 2013

Under no obligation: Protective Service Officers told visiting student Baljit Thind he had to give them his details. Photo: Angela Wylie
Concerns have been raised about Protective Service Officers collecting personal information from innocent bystanders, partly to show their superiors they have been working and, sometimes, to conduct on-the-spot criminal record checks.
PSOs recorded the name and date of birth of more than 29,000 people last year, including those not suspected of any wrongdoing. The information may be used, at PSOs' discretion, to conduct criminal record checks by radio.
When questioned by The Saturday Age one PSO said another reason they wrote down people's details was to prove they had been working.
The acting Victorian Privacy Commissioner, David Watts, was unaware of the practice and said he was ''seeking comment and clarification from Victoria Police''.
Advertisement
Jane Dixon, SC, president of Liberty Victoria, said gathering law-abiding citizens' personal information for no reason showed police wanted a database of everyone in Victoria and was ''bringing us closer to a police state''.
Victoria Police defended the practice as standard procedure used by both PSOs and police to gain information about an area.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/psos-asking-too-many-questions-20130426-2ik8z.html#ixzz2RdSY6lbj​

 

[Slax]

The ALP brought in the idea, Libs ran with it. The whole thing is another political stunt, they want to be seen to be doing something, but in reality all they are doing is wasting money.

 

[rayven]

Some disturbing reports about pso s asking for pe rsonal information from random peopleView attachment 16580

When I did crowd control the lecturer (who was a police academy lecturer) brought up the situation of licensed venues asking for finger prints before admittance. Now he was not against it, but he had concerns with people handing over such identification/evidence without a heavily regulated process.He believed that it may not stand up in court if properly challenged.The way he taught was almost as if he'd hope one day, one of his students would.

Perhaps someone who experiences a PSO operating outside of his authority, could do the noble thing for the lower classes who tend to be the ones violated (seldom stand up for themselves) and challenge there authority by way of a civil action , after one such event against themselves?

Start something!

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Perhaps someone who experiences a PSO operating outside of his authority, could do the noble thing for the lower classes who tend to be the ones violated (seldom stand up for themselves) and challenge there authority by way of a civil action , after one such event against themselves?

Start something!

Those violated are as much to blame.

If you are not sure whether their demands are exceeding their delegated authority "Do I have an obligation at law you can refer me to or are you only asking to satisfy your personal curiosity?" after firing up your phones recorder should minimise violations.

 

[skilts]

Get rid of train guards, station staff and tram conductors, and then, OMG, we're unprotected, and what's worse, we're losing money. Who could have foreseen such an outcome? We must clamp down on those who are out of control and not paying their way. I know, let's train up a bunch of fascists to terrorise the public. Your taxes at work.

 

[radiojake]

The video in the link said fare evasion cost the state $80 million. How did it cost them $80 million? Are they saying they missed out on $80 million, and how do they quantify this amount? Missing out on $80 million is different than it costing the government $80 million. Also, why is the state missing out on fares if the transport system has been privatised? How much money did they make through fines? $200 a pop is a lot more than the $4 fare that was evaded.

Since the metcards were taken out of the trams in late december, I've only caught the trams twice. I refuse to get a myki card are they are a joke. Luckily I ride my bike everywhere so it's not a big issue.

On the weekend my mum was down from Brisbane, we went to the MCG to watch Carl v Adel. Even if I had a myki card, catching the tram to the 'G would not have been an option because why should my mum have to buy a myki card when she will only be in the city for 3 days? In the end we just walked there because I live in Fitzroy, but it's not really the point.

Also, if they were really worried about fare evasion, they should put conductors on the trams and sell tickets

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Also, why is the state missing out on fares if the transport system has been privatised? How much money did they make through fines? $200 a pop is a lot more than the $4 fare that was evaded.

I'm thinking Metro's income is taxable by the gubbermint - every touch of Myki leads to a little GST orgasm among other things. If nobody touches Myki then Myki dosen't have an orgasm and the State gets upset.

 

[radiojake]

I'm thinking Metro's income is taxable by the gubbermint - every touch of Myki leads to a little GST orgasm among other things. If nobody touches Myki then Myki dosen't have an orgasm and the State gets upset.

So I was talking to my housemate just today about this:

He is under the impression that during the privitisation of the public transport system, the new operators signed contracts with the government where fare evasion loss of income would be gauranteed by the government; the state would reimburse the private company. Is this why fare evasion has cost the government $80 million? Because the state has otherwise subsidised a private companies losses?

If this is the case, there is absolutely no incentive for yarra trams and metlink to do any sensible action to genuinely stop fare evading; they can save money on tram conductors knowing that the state is going to gaurantee them the money from fare evasion. They don't need a tram conductor because it's irrelevant to them making a profit. They don't need to make myki cards/metcards available to purchase on trams, because they are going to end up with money from the fare from the government.

Instead, they can now deploy a psuedo police force where they can make extra money from fines generated by the ticket scabs/psos, where they can fine individuals up to $200! for them not having a ticket, alongside making it harder to buy a tram ticket (go to 7/11- top up difficulties etc) -

Can someone in the know confirm or deny any contracts that private operators have with the government regarding fare evasion. I just think it's a joke that public money is going into paying for the cost of fare evasion, but the profits from the activity are going privately.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Pretty sure the infringement $$ goes to the state with a portion paid to operator for 'administrative' costs.
Not sure about contract but wouldn't be surprised. Our reps have long given up any pretense of answering to us when it comes to spending our money.