The Law PSO's - what the hell?

[The Passenger]

It's not hard to avoid getting in trouble with any kind of authority in life.

In fact it's a piece of piss not to get into trouble.

I don't base my moral system on what a government tells me.

I know it's wrong to kill someone, so I don't. I know it's wrong to hit someone, so I don't. I know it's wrong to drive a car like a lunatic, so I don't.

I know I'm allowed to put whatever I want into my body, and I will. I know it's wrong to push the same things onto other who aren't capable or handling it or affording it, so I don't.

At 29 years of age I have worked out when it's safe to cross a road. I don't need a green man to tell me.

I have worked out how to have a beer down by the beach and not cause issues to anyone around me, so I will.

Yet apparently doing some of these things doesn't make me a good citizen? Well if the price to pay is not being a "good citizen" then sign me up. Bargain.

 

[Gus Poyet]

I don't base my moral system on what a government tells me.

I know it's wrong to kill someone, so I don't. I know it's wrong to hit someone, so I don't. I know it's wrong to drive a car like a lunatic, so I don't.

I know I'm allowed to put whatever I want into my body, and I will. I know it's wrong to push the same things onto other who aren't capable or handling it or affording it, so I don't.

At 29 years of age I have worked out when it's safe to cross a road. I don't need a green man to tell me.

I have worked out how to have a beer down by the beach and not cause issues to anyone around me, so I will.

Yet apparently doing some of these things doesn't make me a good citizen? Well if the price to pay is not being a "good citizen" then sign me up. Bargain.

Do you know it's wrong to not have a ticket for a train?

 

[The Passenger]

Do you know it's wrong to not have a ticket for a train?

I don't think it's really wrong at all. I used to pay on the trains and 50/50 on the trams.

I think whether someone has a train ticket is about as relevant as whether they had cereal or toast for breakfast.

In the grand scheme of things, it just does not matter.

Does a 15 year old getting belted by a male adult matter? Yeah I think that's bollox.

 

[Gus Poyet]

I don't think it's really wrong at all. I used to pay on the trains and 50/50 on the trams.

There's nothing wrong with not paying fares? Is this one of those cases where you think its ok to fare evade but you'd not support someone who thought it ok to say shoplift something to eat from a supermarket because they wanted a snack but didnt want to pay for it?

I think whether someone has a train ticket is about as relevant as whether they had cereal or toast for breakfast.

So if someone has no money they should just be able to take or use whatever service they like because someone deems it not relevant?

In the grand scheme of things, it just does not matter.

That's not really justification for ripping off a business though is it?

Does a 15 year old getting belted by a male adult matter? Yeah I think that's bollox.

Does her slapping him first matter? How amny 15 year olds would resort to violence as their first action to being confronted?

 

[radiojake]

Do you know how much of a hassle the Myki system is, Gus?

It's actually a f*cking joke -

I started catching trains to a new job, so I relented and got a card (luckily my brother gave me his as he moved out of Melbourne)

The other day I got on the bus to get to the train station and it wasn't touching on.. nothing was happening...

I got to the train station, tried loading it up on the myki thing... didn't read it at all... then I noticed a small crack in the card..... I guess it's broken? What happens to the $10 or so dollars credit that was on there? What happens if inspectors came onto the train on that particular journey? The only option I had to not fare evade in that moment was to buy a new myki card that wasn't a concession for $10! **** that! I had $10 credit on this card that has broken...

Who knows what situation that girl was in when she got to Flinders St - Maybe she tried to scam it, maybe she forgot her card... Either way, she didn't deserve that body slam and the myki system stinks -

 

[jiphoc]

Do you know how much of a hassle the Myki system is, Gus?

It's actually a f*cking joke -

I started catching trains to a new job, so I relented and got a card (luckily my brother gave me his as he moved out of Melbourne)

The other day I got on the bus to get to the train station and it wasn't touching on.. nothing was happening...

I got to the train station, tried loading it up on the myki thing... didn't read it at all... then I noticed a small crack in the card..... I guess it's broken? What happens to the $10 or so dollars credit that was on there? What happens if inspectors came onto the train on that particular journey? The only option I had to not fare evade in that moment was to buy a new myki card that wasn't a concession for $10! **** that! I had $10 credit on this card that has broken...

Who knows what situation that girl was in when she got to Flinders St - Maybe she tried to scam it, maybe she forgot her card... Either way, she didn't deserve that body slam and the myki system stinks -

In that circumstance they would not fine you as you had a defected card. If you took the card to a premium station they would have replaced the card free and transferred all of the money. Oh and as someone who has caught the train for a good 10 years. I have never, ever known the train system to run as smoothly as it is now.

I think this just shows that you may not know that much at all about the scenario and what happens.

 

[Power Raid]

Do you know how much of a hassle the Myki system is, Gus?

It's actually a f*cking joke -

I started catching trains to a new job, so I relented and got a card (luckily my brother gave me his as he moved out of Melbourne)

The other day I got on the bus to get to the train station and it wasn't touching on.. nothing was happening...

I got to the train station, tried loading it up on the myki thing... didn't read it at all... then I noticed a small crack in the card..... I guess it's broken? What happens to the $10 or so dollars credit that was on there? What happens if inspectors came onto the train on that particular journey? The only option I had to not fare evade in that moment was to buy a new myki card that wasn't a concession for $10! **** that! I had $10 credit on this card that has broken...

Who knows what situation that girl was in when she got to Flinders St - Maybe she tried to scam it, maybe she forgot her card... Either way, she didn't deserve that body slam and the myki system stinks -

she got slammed because she assaulted a PSO not because she didn't have a ticket

I am not justifying his actions but it should be acknowledge he acted in defence. The question he still needs to answer, if charged, was whether the force was appropriate.

 

[And_ROOS]

I had ultra aggressive Metlink w***ers the other day, the ticket machines were down and i couldn't recharge and got hassled at Melbourne Central because i didn't have a valid ticket.
"Why didn't you get off on an earlier stop to recharge it then?"
How about fix your useless f**king machinery instead?
No bodyslams mind you, would take a very brave ticket cop to tackle a big bastard like me.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

she got slammed because she assaulted a PSO not because she didn't have a ticket

I am not justifying his actions but it should be acknowledge he acted in defence. The question he still needs to answer, if charged, was whether the force was appropriate.

She was assaulted first though. Her slapping him was retaliation to being grabbed.

 

[Freakie]

Just to clear things up it was an Authorised Officer (metro employee) not a PSO (Victoria Police employee) that everyone is talking about.... Entirely wrong thread.

 

[Sterge]

She was assaulted first though. Her slapping him was retaliation to being grabbed.

Aren't ticket inspectors legally allowed to restrain you until the police come if you refuse to comply

Since there is no sound on the video we don't know if they asked her to stop but you can prob assume they did

So if she didn't stop then imo they can reasonably attempt to restrain her and grabbing a shoulder is reasonable

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Aren't ticket inspectors legally allowed to restrain you until the police come if you refuse to comply

Since there is no sound on the video we don't know if they asked her to stop but you can prob assume they did

So if she didn't stop then imo they can reasonably attempt to restrain her and grabbing a shoulder is reasonable

Depends what is meant by "restrain" - physical restraint shouldn't be allowed, they're not cops.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Depends what is meant by "restrain" - physical restraint shouldn't be allowed, they're not cops.

How should he have restrained her?

She didn't have a ticket - so initially she was in the wrong. She knew this and tried to run away. At this point, the ticket inspector has two choices - either let her run, or attempt to stop her. I just don't see how he could stop her without grabbing her (also, suggesting that him grabbing her is "assaulting" her is rubbish as far as I'm concerned).

Unless you believe he should have let her run away? What sort of precedent does this set - just walk right by any ticket inspector, since they aren't allowed to stop you anyway?

So, she knew she was in the wrong, tried to run away and then, when the ticket inspector tried to stop her, she slapped him. These are not the actions of an innocent victim, these are the actions of a silly little shit that needs some discipline.

As for the body slam - ridiculous and completely over the top and the ticket inspector should be punished for it. But up until that point, I don't see what he could/should have done differently.

 

[radiojake]

In that circumstance they would not fine you as you had a defected card. If you took the card to a premium station they would have replaced the card free and transferred all of the money. Oh and as someone who has caught the train for a good 10 years. I have never, ever known the train system to run as smoothly as it is now.

I think this just shows that you may not know that much at all about the scenario and what happens.

You didn't read nicky's thread, then did you?

 

[Power Raid]

She was assaulted first though. Her slapping him was retaliation to being grabbed.

That could be her defence if she can argue a grab is assault or that there was no intent in her strike (rather is was a natural or involuntary response).

Reality is she is a juvi and nothing will come of this for her.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Reality is she is a juvi and nothing will come of this for her.

This. Poor behaviour nonetheless.

If it were my daughter (after I got over the AO and subsided from Defcon1) I would be disappointed.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

(also, suggesting that him grabbing her is "assaulting" her is rubbish as far as I'm concerned).

What you think on the matter is irrelevant, assault can be as minor as a finger poke to the chest. As far as I'm concerned what she did in slapping the guy in the face isn't assault either and definitely not cause for the disproportionate and excessive force used in response.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So, she knew she was in the wrong, tried to run away and then, when the ticket inspector tried to stop her, she slapped him. These are not the actions of an innocent victim, these are the actions of a silly little shit that needs some discipline.

Also do you know her personal circumstances? From what was reported today she's not just some over-privileged white kid from the eastern suburbs, she appears to come from a severely dysfunctional family environment and is likely to have other emotional issues going on. To refer to her as just a "silly little shit" fails to take into account the personal circumstances impacting her behaviour.

 

[Freakie]

CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 462A

Use of force to prevent the commission of an indictable offence
A person may use such force not disproportionate to the objective as he believes on reasonable grounds to be necessary to prevent the commission, continuance or completion of an indictable offence or to effect or assist in effecting the lawful arrest of a person committing or suspected of committing any offence.

This is what the discussion should be based around.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

What you think on the matter is irrelevant, assault can be as minor as a finger poke to the chest. As far as I'm concerned what she did in slapping the guy in the face isn't assault either and definitely not cause for the disproportionate and excessive force used in response.

Wait, so him attempting to grab her is assault, but her slapping him isn't? We will have to agree to disagree on that.

I absolutely agree with the bolded. I mentioned in my original post that it was "ridiculous and completely over the top" and that he should be punished for it.

Also do you know her personal circumstances? From what was reported today she's not just some over-privileged white kid from the eastern suburbs, she appears to come from a severely dysfunctional family environment and is likely to have other emotional issues going on. To refer to her as just a "silly little shit" fails to take into account the personal circumstances impacting her behaviour.

No, I have no idea about her personal circumstances, which is why I didn't mention them at all. Not sure what your point is here - an unprivileged kid can be just as much of a little shit as a privileged kid can. Sure, if she comes from a dysfunctional family it may be more understandable, but a stupid act is still a stupid act.

Also, do we know the background of the ticket inspector, and would that change your opinion of his actions?

Anyway, back to my original question, which remains unanswered - what should the ticket inspector have done when the girl started running away?

 

[jiphoc]

You didn't read nicky's thread, then did you?

No I haven't read the thread (link?). This is just how it was explained to be when my card stopped working. If you had every intention of touching on and you have reasonable proof of that, for example credit on the broken card, you will be fine. Then they will transfer the money to a new free card. If you have broken the card they will still transfer the money, however, you will need to purchase a new card.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Anyway, back to my original question, which remains unanswered - what should the ticket inspector have done when the girl started running away?

Whatever his training prescribes which I'm guessing doesn't mention pile-driving her into the tiles.

 

[Pie eyed]

There's nothing wrong with not paying fares? Is this one of those cases where you think its ok to fare evade but you'd not support someone who thought it ok to say shoplift something to eat from a supermarket because they wanted a snack but didnt want to pay for it?




So if someone has no money they should just be able to take or use whatever service they like because someone deems it not relevant?



That's not really justification for ripping off a business though is it?






Does her slapping him first matter? How amny 15 year olds would resort to violence as their first action to being confronted?

It makes more sense to not charge for public transport. The money saved simply not having any ticketing system is a massive saving let alone not paying people to police it. It also means there are no unsuitable tools put in positions of power to run amok on the general public.
The Vic Government did a study not long ago and found it would lose less if the system was free.

 

[The Passenger]

It makes more sense to not charge for public transport. The money saved simply not having any ticketing system is a massive saving let alone not paying people to police it. It also means there are no unsuitable tools put in positions of power to run amok on the general public.
The Vic Government did a study not long ago and found it would lose less if the system was free.

i have been an advocate of free public transport for a long time. or at the very least looking into how it would impact the government economy and environment, cause i reckon it would be fairly substantial. i'm not sure if it would be positive or negative and it might possibly all come out even, but there would be a redistribution of where revenue was coming from, but also saving money elsewhere.

the most likely results would be more people using public transport, so you would need to find more buses, trams and trains, and people to drive them, and also costs to service them.

would take cars off the road, so you might save some money in terms of maintenance and development of roadways, but that could also have a downturn in terms of contractors losing work.... i don't think there would be much of an impact in terms of loss of revenue from car registrations and taxes because most people who have a car would still keep one, they'd just likely use it less. less petrol being consumed, which would mean less taxes collected.

do you have a link to that study? i'd like to read it.

 

[Pie eyed]

i have been an advocate of free public transport for a long time. or at the very least looking into how it would impact the government economy and environment, cause i reckon it would be fairly substantial. i'm not sure if it would be positive or negative and it might possibly all come out even, but there would be a redistribution of where revenue was coming from, but also saving money elsewhere.

the most likely results would be more people using public transport, so you would need to find more buses, trams and trains, and people to drive them, and also costs to service them.

would take cars off the road, so you might save some money in terms of maintenance and development of roadways, but that could also have a downturn in terms of contractors losing work.... i don't think there would be much of an impact in terms of loss of revenue from car registrations and taxes because most people who have a car would still keep one, they'd just likely use it less. less petrol being consumed, which would mean less taxes collected.

do you have a link to that study? i'd like to read it.

I'd have to do some dredging.
Apt username BTW.