Public vs Private School funding

[evolved2]

Cool. I'll get my blank placards out and start my campaign. Class war sounds better and better as inequality grows and grows... I'll throw inheritance tax and 80% tax on every dollar over $1,000,000. Then we can call the Greens the centrist party of Australian politics.

I'm happy to look at other ways of raising the standard of public schools, even if it requires higher taxes.

That's just me though.

Inequality is part of life and impossible to remove. I see no reason why anyone needs to be pulled down so that you can achieve equality.

The Greens have some good policy, but they get involved in unpopular culture wars.

 

[RedStarUncle]

I'm happy to look at other ways of raising the standard of public schools, even if it requires higher taxes.

That's just me though.

Inequality is part of life and impossible to remove. I see no reason why anyone needs to be pulled down so that you can achieve equality.

The Greens have some good policy, but they get involved in unpopular culture wars.

We could start talking about how, whenever anything is attempted to actively give a leg-up to the disadvantaged, certain groups bleat "equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome"... all the while enjoying the very explicit inequality of opportunity that institutions like provide schools provide.

But we'd be off topic.

 

[Gralin]

The Greens have some good policy, but they get involved in unpopular culture wars.

lol

 

[Gruffles]

Just as an additional bit of info to add to the discussion, there's been a total of 50 new schools across Australia since 2021, 20 of them being government schools. In fact, in 2016 the Grattan Institute predicted an estimated 400 - 750 new schools would need to be built by 2026. That represents a huge finance cost in building, staffing, resourcing, etc. Without privatisation, do you think government would be able to accommodate this essential service need to a reasonable standard?

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Cool. Thanks for clarifying.

i've tried I can tell you. Joined DOGS. Talked to pollies. And here we are. Its a brick wall.

Just as an additional bit of info to add to the discussion, there's been a total of 50 new schools across Australia since 2021, 20 of them being government schools. In fact, in 2016 the Grattan Institute predicted an estimated 400 - 750 new schools would need to be built by 2026. That represents a huge finance cost in building, staffing, resourcing, etc. Without privatisation, do you think government would be able to accommodate this essential service need to a reasonable standard?

State gov announced 30 million for building and upgrading Catholic schools in the Ballarat diocese just this week. What actually defines privatisation in your view?

 

[Gruffles]

i've tried I can tell you. Joined DOGS. Talked to pollies. And here we are. Its a brick wall.

And yet it's not. Read the agreements.

State gov announced 30 million for building and upgrading Catholic schools in the Ballarat diocese just this week. What actually defines privatisation in your view?

That amount represents investment in 9 schools. Given the estimated build of 1 new school is between $15-30 million depending of if it's primary or secondary (from the Grattan report), it may have actually been a smart investment by the government here. Do you think they should have instead built 1 school and then taken on all of its ongoing costs?

I'm using privatisation on its definition of transferring previously publicly owned services to privately owned. You?

 

[Gralin]

Just as an additional bit of info to add to the discussion, there's been a total of 50 new schools across Australia since 2021, 20 of them being government schools. In fact, in 2016 the Grattan Institute predicted an estimated 400 - 750 new schools would need to be built by 2026. That represents a huge finance cost in building, staffing, resourcing, etc. Without privatisation, do you think government would be able to accommodate this essential service need to a reasonable standard?

able to yes

willing to

no

this thinking gives them that out though

we can't do it without the private schools is a lie

same as their current we need developers making big profits to build housing

anywhere there is a public/private "partnership" there is a conflict of interest between the public good and the private desire for profit

we subsidise that profit and then say we cant afford to it ourselves

its all a big con

 

[Reg Grundy35]

And yet it's not. Read the agreements.


That amount represents investment in 9 schools. Given the estimated build of 1 new school is between $15-30 million depending of if it's primary or secondary (from the Grattan report), it may have actually been a smart investment by the government here. Do you think they should have instead built 1 school and then taken on all of its ongoing costs?

I'm using privatisation on its definition of transferring previously publicly owned services to privately owned. You?

so these operations are privately owned but can't be expected to be viable without significant government money. So they build this private school, heavily funded by tax payers money and then they define who can enrol or stay enrolled and even the preferred sexuality of those who work there. What part of this isn't a rort?

 

[Gruffles]

able to yes

How would they afford to do this? Where would the funds come from?

 

[Rob R]

Just as an additional bit of info to add to the discussion, there's been a total of 50 new schools across Australia since 2021, 20 of them being government schools. In fact, in 2016 the Grattan Institute predicted an estimated 400 - 750 new schools would need to be built by 2026. That represents a huge finance cost in building, staffing, resourcing, etc. Without privatisation, do you think government would be able to accommodate this essential service need to a reasonable standard?

Yes, if any government actually prioritised it, did proper planning and eliminated the vast amount of government money wasted everywhere on Canberracrats (don't cut APS numbers, cut Canberra managers to fund delivery staff) pointless reviews, overpaid consultants and contracts, (in source services again) etc

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gralin]

How would they afford to do this? Where would the funds come from?

they could fund education properly right now but choose not to
This shouldn't be a difficult concept

 

[Gruffles]

they could fund education properly right now but choose not to
This shouldn't be a difficult concept

That doesn't quite answer my question though.

Where do you see the funds coming from to build the new schools? We are talking in excess of $11 billion for the setting up of the schools alone, and then ongoing running costs of the schools.

 

[Gralin]

That doesn't quite answer my question though.

Where do you see the funds coming from to build the new schools? We are talking in excess of $11 billion for the setting up of the schools alone, and then ongoing running costs of the schools.

And you wonder why people treat you like the enemy in here

This would be an example of why

 

[Gruffles]

And you wonder why people treat you like the enemy in here

This would be an example of why

Huh? Can you please explain this?

I'm legitimately asking you a question and this is how you respond.

 

[Gralin]

Huh? Can you please explain this?

I'm legitimately asking you a question and this is how you respond.

yes
do you not understand what "just asking questions" looks like

especially when its something like "tell me exactly how governments are going to find 11 billion dollars to do this thing"

 

[Gralin]

Oh no 11 billion dollars where could we possibly find it

 

[Gruffles]

yes
do you not understand what "just asking questions" looks like

It's a bloody discussion forum, Gralin. How is conversation going to happen if we don't ask questions?

What else would asking questions look like?

What trash behaviour from someone who moderates on this site.

 

[Gruffles]

Oh no 11 billion dollars where could we possibly find it

View attachment 2074467

It's state government that funds the opening of schools in their states.

Maybe this could be funnelled to them? But I don't know what the rules are on this.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

That doesn't quite answer my question though.

Where do you see the funds coming from to build the new schools? We are talking in excess of $11 billion for the setting up of the schools alone, and then ongoing running costs of the schools.

For the cost of just 1 nuclear submarine, how many schools do you think we could build?

 

[Gralin]

It's state government that funds the opening of schools in their states.

Maybe this could be funnelled to them? But I don't know what the rules are on this.

vic governement spent 21 billion on infrastructure in the current budget

really as I said to begin with

it can be done if governments have the will to do it

you want the answer to be it can't be done, don't worry, it won't be done, your job is safe

 

[Gruffles]

vic governement spent 21 billion on infrastructure in the current budget

really as I said to begin with

it can be done if governments have the will to do it

you want the answer to be it can't be done, don't worry, it won't be done, your job is safe

I don't want answers that it can't be done. Show me where I've indicated that at all. I want to work to find out how we can do it.

Pull your head in and treat people with some respect. You spend so much time calling people out on bad behaviour, but you don't recognise your own.

 

[Gralin]

It's a bloody discussion forum, Gralin. How is conversation going to happen if we don't ask questions?

What else would asking questions look like?

What trash behaviour from someone who moderates on this site.

yes and apparently you can criticise other people for being emotional but can't deal with any criticism of your style

you are the one that brought up the scenario

you didn't like to anything so we just have to take your word on it

you only asked if it was possible to do without privatistion

you got muliple reponses that yes it can be done if Governments want to do it and prioritise doing it

which you then turned into not answering your question because i didnt tell you how it would happen

that's not having a conversation that's you shifting goal posts

you're also offering nothing

its a great little spot for you to be in to direct the discussion to where you want it to go and get everyone else to do the work

 

[Gralin]

anyway I'll leave you to it Gruffles I really can't be bothered going in these circles again

 

[Gruffles]

you got muliple reponses that yes it can be done if Governments want to do it and prioritise doing it

which you then turned into not answering your question because i didnt tell you how it would happen

that's not having a conversation that's you shifting goal posts

What's having a conversation to you then? Asking a question, getting an answer and then stopping? I was curious as to how people might see that happening and wanted to flesh out answers in more detail.

But no. You DECIDE there's alternate motivations instead of taking the conversation on face value.

I genuinely want to see improvements to the education funding situation. I've shown that multiple times here. But apparently that's not good enough for you.

 

[Chief]

Anyway...

Yes it can be done. Access to money is not the issue.

We have to want to do it. Governments don't want to.