Public vs Private School funding

[Gruffles]

lets be clear , I not talking about an improved SRS. I'd want a fundemental commitment to ensuing that ALL govt schools are funded in line with the SRS before funding is distributed to non - gov school. After all - it is their ONLY source of funding. Schools cannot be thought of as the same. You comfy with that?

Would that not be an improved SRS? I'm working on the assumption that the funds are provided to all schools correctly, so... yes, I'm comfy with that. And with a better calculated SRS, that would be more funds to the schools that need it.

It really feels like you're trying to find something to disagree with here.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Would that not be an improved SRS? I'm working on the assumption that the funds are provided to all schools correctly, so... yes, I'm comfy with that. And with a better calculated SRS, that would be more funds to the schools that need it.

It really feels like you're trying to find something to disagree with here.

the government schools should all be funded fully per the SRS. Then, the private schools. If there's a shortfall, the privates wear it. They have other options not available to Govt schools. Agree?

 

[Gruffles]

the government schools should all be funded fully per the SRS. Then, the private schools. If there's a shortfall, the privates wear it. They have other options not available to Govt schools. Agree?

Reg, I've already said I'm comfy with that. It's OK... you can believe me.

In any case, I'd want there to be enough funding allocated to education so there wasn't a shortfall.

 

[Carn The Berries]

You're just dishing up the same old crap we've heard for years. Expressing dismay at the plight of government schools but falling back on the assumption that chaotic disaster would prevail if the imbalance were corrected. This old chestnut overlooks parents' key motivation for choosing non-Gov education - CLASS. Don't underestimate how much they would be prepared to pay to keep their kids segregated. Some then have the gall to suggest that addressing funding disparity by reducing top-end funding would be considered a "class war". WTF?

You also run with the trope that the wealthy private schools that are over-funded are "outliers". Sure, they are the most flagrant examples of the rort, but ALL private schools are over-funded by the current model compared to government schools - it's built into the policy. At the lower end, we've seen the rise of weirdo Christian churches all over the place enabled by this disgusting funding model. There was a time when state schools were the heart of Victorian education. Now they are basically residual for those who can't afford or are not welcome in these taxpayer-funded private enterprises. Hiding behind bibles and old-school ties, they must be pissing themselves laughing at how the politicians have looked after them. Howard's loathing of government schools was a huge turning point, but let's not let Whitlam off the hook with his commencement of the handouts in the 70s trying to stitch up the Catholic vote. It's been downhill since then as the segregators realised the power of the ballot box.

That is patently untrue, unless your view is that receiving any money is "over-funded".

 

[Reg Grundy35]

That is patently untrue, unless your view is that receiving any money is "over-funded".

so you're OK with the rest then?

 

[Chief]

And this is where we disagree. And that's totally fine.

You know that we disagree on basically everything and you haven't put forward much to support your arguments?

 

[Gruffles]

You know that we disagree on basically everything and you haven't put forward much to support your arguments?

I know your stance on it all. We've spoken about it before in this thread.

I've put forward a hell of a lot more info and detailed opinion to add the the discussion in this thread than most. You don't have to agree with it and that's fine, much like I don't agree with your opinion.

 

[Carn The Berries]

so you're OK with the rest then?

I never said I was, but I'm definitely not OK with people spreading mis-information to try and make a point. That's literally how this thread got reignited.

And... As has been explained ad nauseum in this thread, there is currently a program in place to bring non-government schools back in line with their expected funding under the SRS. You may not be happy with the speed of progress (or the policy in the first place) but something is being done.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

I never said I was, but I'm definitely not OK with people spreading mis-information to try and make a point. That's literally how this thread got reignited.

And... As has been explained ad nauseum in this thread, there is currently a program in place to bring non-government schools back in line with their expected funding under the SRS. You may not be happy with the speed of progress (or the policy in the first place) but something is being done.

Lets wait till it IS done before we pat any backs. The private lobby has a history of withdrawing support for funding initiatives at the 11th hour.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Lets wait till it IS done before we pat any backs. The private lobby has a history of withdrawing support for funding initiatives at the 11th hour.

It's already in motion and has been happening for several years now... So it IS being done.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

I never said I was, but I'm definitely not OK with people spreading mis-information to try and make a point. That's literally how this thread got reignited.

And... As has been explained ad nauseum in this thread, there is currently a program in place to bring non-government schools back in line with their expected funding under the SRS. You may not be happy with the speed of progress (or the policy in the first place) but something is being done.

so the "Govt sector will collapse if funding is withdrawn" isn't misinformation? Its partisan opinion at best

 

[Reg Grundy35]

It's already in motion and has been happening for several years now... So it IS being done.

So high end private schools are taking a haircut?

 

[Carn The Berries]

so the "Govt sector will collapse if funding is withdrawn" isn't misinformation? Its partisan opinion at best

I don't think anybody has every said that (though it has been noted that overall funding would need to increase). That reaction (at least from my perspective, and I also believe Gruffles) is that there would be chaos if the anarchists got their way and all funding was pulled from non-government schools immediately.

 

[Carn The Berries]

So high end private schools are taking a haircut?

In the cases where "high end private schools" are over-funded vs the SRS... Yes

 

[Gruffles]

I don't think anybody has every said that (though it has been noted that overall funding would need to increase). That reaction (at least from my perspective, and I also believe Gruffles) is that there would be chaos if the anarchists got their way and all funding was pulled from non-government schools immediately.

Yes, that's my opinion as well. I've never suggested that the government system would collapse if funding was immediately withdrawn from the private system. Instead, I'd see us having a government system not capable of meeting the education needs of the sudden increase in students moving into that system.

If people have a goal of seeing the end of privatised education, then they'd need to be prepared for a long term transition to that goal, in my opinion. It may be a shock to many here as I seem to have been 'pigeonholed', but I'd actually be completely supportive of that if it was planned out properly.

 

[Chief]

And... As has been explained ad nauseum in this thread, there is currently a program in place to bring non-government schools back in line with their expected funding under the SRS. You may not be happy with the speed of progress (or the policy in the first place) but something is being done.

Will the private schools repay the money they received incorrectly?

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Will the private schools repay the money they received incorrectly?

i imagine they'll do a Harvey Norman

 

[Reg Grundy35]

In the cases where "high end private schools" are over-funded vs the SRS... Yes

just out of curiosity , how exactly did the "over-funding" occur? Not a problem I ever encountered when running a Govt school.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Will the private schools repay the money they received incorrectly?

No, that was not part of the change to the funding model.

 

[Carn The Berries]

just out of curiosity , how exactly did the "over-funding" occur? Not a problem I ever encountered when running a Govt school.

I'm not entirely sure to be honest. The schools that I worked in weren't part of this cohort, and the issues were identified (and corrective actions implemented) before I became closely involved with the process.

 

[Chief]

No, that was not part of the change to the funding model.

Was it considered?

The reason I ask is that the private schools have had use of that money to invest in facilities and so on, giving a longer-lasting benefit from money they were never supposed to get.

So, they have unjustly enriched themselves.

Making this whole would involve paying back that money with interest and distributing it to schools who missed out so that they may invest in facilities of their own.

If this involved, say, the private schools selling assets, that would be acceptable given they should not have those assets in the first place. If they had to raise fees, that would be acceptable given their fees were artificially low based on money they should not have been given.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Was it considered?

The reason I ask is that the private schools have had use of that money to invest in facilities and so on, giving a longer-lasting benefit from money they were never supposed to get.

So, they have unjustly enriched themselves.

Making this whole would involve paying back that money with interest and distributing it to schools who missed out so that they may invest in facilities of their own.

If this involved, say, the private schools selling assets, that would be acceptable given they should not have those assets in the first place. If they had to raise fees, that would be acceptable given their fees were artificially low based on money they should not have been given.

I get your argument. I would daresay this wasn't considered, though I can't say for sure.

 

[Chief]

I get your argument. I would daresay this wasn't considered, though I can't say for sure.

Sounds like a very inadequate system that will leave some sectors of the education system behind, while everyone pats themselves on the back that they fixed it.

Who oversaw this funding debacle?

 

[Gruffles]

Was it considered?

The reason I ask is that the private schools have had use of that money to invest in facilities and so on, giving a longer-lasting benefit from money they were never supposed to get.

So, they have unjustly enriched themselves.

Making this whole would involve paying back that money with interest and distributing it to schools who missed out so that they may invest in facilities of their own.

If this involved, say, the private schools selling assets, that would be acceptable given they should not have those assets in the first place. If they had to raise fees, that would be acceptable given their fees were artificially low based on money they should not have been given.

What you're saying makes sense, but I just don't think it would be possible to have a retrospective readjustment of funding. I don't see how the assets you're referring to can be sold.

How do you sell a facility upgrade? You can't roll it back to a previous version.

 

[Chief]

What you're saying makes sense, but I just don't think it would be possible to have a retrospective readjustment of funding. I don't see how the assets you're referring to can be sold.

How do you sell a facility upgrade? You can't roll it back to a previous version.

Asset sales are of course not the only way to raise money.