Public vs Private School funding

[liz]

It’s no secret

It’s no secret that they don’t need government funding?

 

[Sttew]

It’s no secret that they don’t need government funding?

It’s no secret schools engage in fundraising

 

[Reg Grundy35]

It’s no secret schools engage in fundraising

so do state schools. I guess you wouldnt know that. You give them a wide berth I imagine

 

[caveman72]

Had a student locally leave a private school due to being badly bullied. After a few weeks at the local public school he was attending he couldn't get back there fast enough even though he wasn't being bullied. Just said the school was to run down and would rather be bullied. Conditions must be bad if you would rather that

 

[Chief]

Had a student locally leave a private school due to being badly bullied. After a few weeks at the local public school he was attending he couldn't get back there fast enough even though he wasn't being bullied. Just said the school was to run down and would rather be bullied. Conditions must be bad if you would rather that

Maybe proper funding would help.

 

[Carn The Berries]

no, they just get handed large sums of money with no acquittal process and decide what to do with it themselves. The only thing they dont use it for is keeping the fees down as that might let undesirables in

That is an absolute, bald faced lie.

Given how long you say you've been involved in the education system, I suspect you know that...

 

[Carn The Berries]

Not much. Forty years working in Govt schools, though, showed me what a complete ****ing rort the Govt funding of private schools is and how inane and offensive the justifications are. What is the acquittal process for Govt funding for private schools = how about you tell us? I can assure you that State schools are accountable to the government for every dollar they receive. How about you tell us the process for the non-government schools to account for their use of millions of dollars of taxpayer funds? You seem to be very knowledgeable about that system and its finances. Please don't tell me to google it because that doesn't reveal much. Funny that?

Takes Breath Ok, here we go.

Each year, non-government schools are required to complete externally audited acquittals of their financial accounts, including allocation of every cent that is received in government funding (split by state and federal). These acquittals are submitted to the federal department of education for review and verification. The acquittal includes, but is not limited to, grant funding received, fee income, other donations, teaching expenses, camp expenditure (for validation that CSEF funds are being appropriately used), debt balances and interest repayments. All debt facilities must be tested for serviceability (with confirmation from debt providers). Staffing headcount data is also provided to ensure staffing ratios are at an appropriate level. This process can take anywhere from 4-12 weeks to complete, depending upon the complexity of the particular school's financial affairs.

There is also a separate acquittal process for any block grant funding provided for capital projects. The relevant BGA in each state is involved in every stage of the process, from design to final construction. Every dollar of grant funding spent must be acquitted against an invoice that is linked to the project (and are routinely questioned to ensure the funds are being used for the stated purposes). All debt facilities and cash reserves must be used before any grant funds are released to the project.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Takes Breath Ok, here we go.

Each year, non-government schools are required to complete externally audited acquittals of their financial accounts, including allocation of every cent that is received in government funding (split by state and federal). These acquittals are submitted to the federal department of education for review and verification. The acquittal includes, but is not limited to, grant funding received, fee income, other donations, teaching expenses, camp expenditure (for validation that CSEF funds are being appropriately used), debt balances and interest repayments. All debt facilities must be tested for serviceability (with confirmation from debt providers). Staffing headcount data is also provided to ensure staffing ratios are at an appropriate level. This process can take anywhere from 4-12 weeks to complete, depending upon the complexity of the particular school's financial affairs.

There is also a separate acquittal process for any block grant funding provided for capital projects. The relevant BGA in each state is involved in every stage of the process, from design to final construction. Every dollar of grant funding spent must be acquitted against an invoice that is linked to the project (and are routinely questioned to ensure the funds are being used for the stated purposes). All debt facilities and cash reserves must be used before any grant funds are released to the project.

its a rubber stamp mate. I doubt if even one of them has ever been challenged on anything. Plus the Catholics departments take all the cash and dish it out themselves under a veil of typical secrecy.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

That is an absolute, bald faced lie.

Given how long you say you've been involved in the education system, I suspect you know that...

so they do use it to keep the fees down? really?

 

[Carn The Berries]

its a rubber stamp mate. I doubt if even one of them has ever been challenged on anything. Plus the Catholics departments take all the cash and dish it out themselves under a veil of typical secrecy.

You can doubt it all you like... Mate... But until you've actually done one and had it scrutinised by both an external auditor and the department, you actually have NFI.

**Edit - The method of distribution that the Catholic system uses has absolutely nothing to do with how the funds are acquitted.

 

[Carn The Berries]

so they do use it to keep the fees down? really?

You know exactly which part of your statement I was referring to... But good try.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

You know exactly which part of your statement I was referring to... But good try.

so you also subscribe to this idea that new sporting and arts complexes are built with donations?

 

[Carn The Berries]

so you also subscribe to this idea that new sporting and arts complexes are built with donations?

Where did I say that?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

It’s no secret

BREAKING NEWS - secrets are not private

Honestly I think the Private label is very misleading. Most of them wouldn't exist without taxpayer funding.

The general public should have access to these so called private facilities.

 

[caveman72]

Maybe proper funding would help.

You would think so.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

BREAKING NEWS - secrets are not private

Honestly I think the Private label is very misleading. Most of them wouldn't exist without taxpayer funding.

The general public should have access to these so called private facilities.

Exactly. these joints are publicly funded “exclusive” schools. Take the govt coin. whack the fees up to make sure you only get the right people. Ignore discrimination laws, and whatever parts of the national curriculum don’t align with any loony bigotry you may harbour, but get in line for the next round of tax payer handouts.

 

[Sttew]

Exactly. these joints are publicly funded “exclusive” schools. Take the govt coin. whack the fees up to make sure you only get the right people. Ignore discrimination laws, and whatever parts of the national curriculum don’t align with any loony bigotry you may harbour, but get in line for the next round of tax payer handouts.

You are so hopelessly biased. Is it any wonder I react to your posts? How many Catholic schools - which come under the 'private' banner - are exclusive? How many parents of children at independent private schools work two jobs just to be able to send their kids to the school, and/or have grandparents contributing to school fees.

Give me examples of independent schools (and not Jewish Schools) discriminating! Give me tangible examples of "loony bigotry".

You want change you lobby the government or your local member. I bet, though that 90% of parents whose kids attend private schools pay a hell of lot more income taxes than you ever paid.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

How many parents of children at independent private schools work two jobs just to be able to send their kids to the school, and/or have grandparents contributing to school fees.

And you think this is a good thing? This is your preferred model for education?

Weird.

 

[Sttew]

so do state schools. I guess you wouldnt know that. You give them a wide berth I imagine

I sent my kids to state primary school, but I then sent them to private school largely because the only secondary school in our "zone" was a shit hole.

And you think this is a good thing? This is your preferred model for education?

Weird.

Weird? You pretend its news to you that parents would do that, LOL. FYI it is extremely common. Half students at private schools have both parents working.

You do what you have to do if you think it is the right thing to do, and as I told Reg there was no way we were going to send our kids to the local secondary school in our zone because of its appalling reputation and track record. Did it cost us a bomb at the time? Yes. Was it worth it? Absolutely.

 

[liz]

I sent my kids to state primary school, but I then sent them to private school largely because the only secondary school in our "zone" was a shit hole.


Weird? You pretend its news to you that parents would do that, LOL. FYI it is extremely common. Half students at private schools have both parents working.

You do what you have to do if you think it is the right thing to do, and as I told Reg there was no way we were going to send our kids to the local secondary school in our zone because of its appalling reputation and track record. Did it cost us a bomb at the time? Yes. Was it worth it? Absolutely.

If you didn’t have the option of opting out and sending your kid to a private school, you and other concerned parents would instead have put an effort into pressuring that state school up to a good standard, which would have benefited all kids, not just those whose parents were able to opt out.

This is the main ideological issue at stake. Our governments - both at federal and state level - are able to cop out of arguably their single most important obligation - to educate ALL the next generation to a high standard - because the most engaged parents aren’t motivated to hold them to account.

I don’t blame individual parents for opting out. It’s society’s issue to fix. Are we ever going to invest properly and consistently in the next generation?

 

[Reg Grundy35]

If you didn’t have the option of opting out and sending your kid to a private school, you and other concerned parents would instead have put an effort into pressuring that state school up to a good standard, which would have benefited all kids, no just those whose parent were able to opt out.

This is the main ideological issue at stake. Our governments - both at federal and state level - are able to cop out of arguably their single most important obligation - to educate ALL the next generation to a high standard because the most engaged parents aren’t motivated to hold them to account.

I don’t blame individual parents for opting out. It’s society’s issue to fix. Are we ever going to invest properly and consistently in the next generation?

exactly. unfortunately parents like Stew dont give a rats about those kids they avoid.

 

[evolved2]

It’s not about what somebody “deserves”.

We’re talking about children and their education here.

It’s about what they need.

The public system is underfunded and there is some ridiculous excess at some private schools. End of story. It needs redressing.

This “I deserve this” approach is what has made so much middle and upper class welfare acceptable. It’s the Howard approach which allowed his and successive government to re-distribute public wealth to richer people.

It’s just another neo-liberal con job.

The excess is paid for by school fees. Those school fees are paid through wages and/or capital gains that have already been taxed.

If it's cheaper for the government to fund private schooling than public schooling, I don't see what the problem is.

Another benefit of the private schooling system is providing competition for wages. It's a tough job and teachers deserve to be paid well.

 

[liz]

Another benefit of the private schooling system is providing competition for wages. It's a tough job and teachers deserve to be paid well.

So the kids whose parents can afford to pay for private education not only benefit from better (much better) facilities, they also get the best teachers? (To the extent the best teachers follow the money - not all will, but there’s also the lure of a cushier job in the private sector.)

 

[evolved2]

So the kids whose parents can afford to pay for private education not only benefit from better (much better) facilities, they also get the best teachers? (To the extent the best teachers follow the money - not all will, but there’s also the lure of a cushier job in the private sector.)

That's an interesting way of twisting my post. I thought progressives would support my view that teachers are underpaid.

Every child has the opportunity to have a free education. Parents who want to pay for better facilities and a different culture are able to do so.

What makes you think private schools have the best teachers? What makes you think a private school teaching job is cushier?

 

[liz]

That's an interesting way of twisting my post. I thought progressives would support my view that teachers are underpaid.

Every child has the opportunity to have a free education. Parents who want to pay for better facilities and a different culture are able to do so.

What makes you think private schools have the best teachers? What makes you think a private school teaching job is cushier?

I absolutely agree with you that teachers are underpaid. I just don’t believe salary based competition between the private and public sectors addresses that.