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QFA Div 4&5

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I can't wait to review, I assume AFLQ will upload it to youtube?

Certainly some people red hot on social media about the game.

Without knowing the situation, were they abused or booed off the ground? Was there possibility of an incident if they did front up to the ceremony?

Maybe AFLQ looked at it and said this won't be a great look for community footy or umpire recruitment in general if something was to happen. Remember how great the 2019 NRL grand final ceremony was for the referees.

Maybe, having umpired grand finals in the past - they just forgot to tell them to stick around? very possible

Maybe they were on the breatho like that bloke in WA?
 
StillGotIt said:
I can't wait to review, I assume AFLQ will upload it to youtube?

Certainly some people red hot on social media about the game.

Without knowing the situation, were they abused or booed off the ground? Was there possibility of an incident if they did front up to the ceremony?

Maybe AFLQ looked at it and said this won't be a great look for community footy or umpire recruitment in general if something was to happen. Remember how great the 2019 NRL grand final ceremony was for the referees.

Maybe, having umpired grand finals in the past - they just forgot to tell them to stick around? very possible

Maybe they were on the breatho like that bloke in WA?
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Watch the reply and it will tell you why they need to leave the field, no one was going to anything but they would have coped some verbal abuse so it was the best thing. The umpires boss needs to sit them down and review the game.
 
As a neutral who wasn’t at the game, interested to know if the accusation is that the ump was biased or just incompetent? Are Div 4 GF umps AFLQ umps or just some bloke who puts his hand up?
 

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Breretonisahood said:
As a neutral who wasn’t at the game, interested to know if the accusation is that the ump was biased or just incompetent? Are Div 4 GF umps AFLQ umps or just some bloke who puts his hand up?
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It is interesting, I can understand an umpire having a poor game, much the same as players can but it is hard to imagine any umpire being biassed at any level. Is the game online?
 
StillGotIt said:
what if - stick with me here - all the free kicks were genuinely there and the backline just had a bad game?

just smacks of that idea that a lopsided free kick count is evidence of anything other than one team being first to the ball or more disciplined more often
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StillGotIt, Wonderful words and theories but did you actually see the game and the decisions?
 
That said, my benefit of the doubt starts with the umpires. As it should be given the general hiding to nothing they're on

They would be league appointments and have no reason to believe not neutral. Probably (but not necessarily) picked on merit and performance

Did they have a bad day? Were they genuinely inconsistent? Were they correct but the rules poorly understood?

Once this replay goes up it would be great to identify which examples of supposed bias or bad calls there are
 
OK so I have just watched the 4th quarter on my lunch break and have to say I didn't see any clear howlers, especially by the umpire in CP forward 50. Looked in general to be well umpired

Probably a couple highs that could have gone the Kings way were missed in the centre. They also made a couple of very good calls which led to coorparoo goals

Probably most contentious for me is the block/holding call on the CP full forward for their second goal (approx 11.04 on the video). On a different day that could be play on - both holding but the defender is front on and pushes him past the ball drop. Possibly saw the forward's arm free too. Fairly comfortable with that call

The free kick for the last goal isn't clear on the video but looks like the umpire was on the other side and had a better view. Looked to me like both players went flying

If anyone should have been shepherded out of the ground it was whoever was attempting karaoke next to the mic the first ten minutes or so of the quarter. and the idiots who ran on after the last goal

I assumed given 10 goals were kicked in the last quarter that this would show the supposed worst of it. Is there anything specific to look at in the others?
 
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Just watched the last quarter, and I'll pre-face it that when I saw who is umpiring I was nervous for everyone as old mate with the flat top is the biggest flog in SEQ umpiring - how they gave him a GF is anyones guess.

1st goal for power at 2 minute mark. Could make a case for it being a high tackle, but 50/50. Old mate makes absolutely no effort to get rid of it, so free kick correctly awarded.

Next centre bounce, Coorparoo guy clearly runs into umpire - obvious free kick.

Dodgy free kick to Coorparoo at 8:50 mark leads directly to a goal, should have been play on or a throw.

Power get the same dodgy free kick at 10m mark to go forward, should have been play on. Then after 2 stoppages, free kick in goalsquare to Power full forward probably generous. Both holding, but fullback has his back to play - so was always in strife. To be fair, he looks to never take his eye of ball and full forward definitely holding him as well.

18 minute mark, no umpiring howlers - but just funny! haha comedy of errors leads to a goal from power they nearly cough up twice.

19:25 - thats a genuine howler, mystery ruck infringement leads to inside 50 for Power. Fair bit of play before a free kick for a clear high tackle is paid for a goal to Power.

21:15 - Kings blokes dives on it, pinged for holding the ball. Correct call, but doesn't lead to goal anyway.

22:15 - genuine howler in front of goal, gifts Coorparoo a set shot they convert to go 11 points up. no way there is a free kick there

Deliberate out of bounds call, that was there every day - took a pretty good kick to convert it!

Last free kick, looked fairly clearcut - can see why they were holding him, had already kicked 3 in the quarter!

Siren sounded when Power were about to kick another, so I think Kings just being Salty if they think they were robbed somehow.

Great finish, some big boys!
 
Miller1971 said:
1st goal for power at 2 minute mark. Could make a case for it being a high tackle, but 50/50. Old mate makes absolutely no effort to get rid of it, so free kick correctly awarded.
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Ducked the first one or drove with the head, either way it can't be high and it's prior opportunity taken so has to get a successful disposal. Holding the ball 100% correct

Miller1971 said:
Next centre bounce, Coorparoo guy clearly runs into umpire - obvious free kick.
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Agreed, bad one to give away

Miller1971 said:
Dodgy free kick to Coorparoo at 8:50 mark leads directly to a goal, should have been play on or a throw.
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No prior, ball knocked out in tackle and then taken to ground. Free kick holding the man correct

Miller1971 said:
Power get the same dodgy free kick at 10m mark to go forward, should have been play on.
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No prior, ball knocked out in tackle and then taken to ground. Free kick holding the man correct

Miller1971 said:
Then after 2 stoppages, free kick in goalsquare to Power full forward probably generous. Both holding, but fullback has his back to play - so was always in strife. To be fair, he looks to never take his eye of ball and full forward definitely holding him as well.
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Agreed this was a genuine 50/50 - umpire is out of shot so can't see his signal. Might have seen the forward's arms free after the kick and ruled the defender wrapped the arms, so holding against the defender

Miller1971 said:
18 minute mark, no umpiring howlers - but just funny! haha comedy of errors leads to a goal from power they nearly cough up twice.
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If anything here possibly a missed downfield to Collingwood Park #22. but yes I've made that kick out of fullback more than once as well, and you just want the ground to open up and consume you when it happens

Miller1971 said:
19:25 - thats a genuine howler, mystery ruck infringement leads to inside 50 for Power. Fair bit of play before a free kick for a clear high tackle is paid for a goal to Power.
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View is blocked on the video but suspect the Coorparoo ruckman had an arm around. Might be able to see a tiny glimpse of it on the ruckman's right side as the ball goes up. Umpires are trained to look for the arm around as a cue for this free kick so not surprised to see it paid

Miller1971 said:
21:15 - Kings blokes dives on it, pinged for holding the ball. Correct call, but doesn't lead to goal anyway.
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I think he was expecting the free for a high one on the way down. I saw this as a missed call but not a bad one - looked like the umpire was seeing it through a mess of bodies. Need to play the whistle in any case

Miller1971 said:
22:15 - genuine howler in front of goal, gifts Coorparoo a set shot they convert to go 11 points up. no way there is a free kick there
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2 on 1 where the defender pushes the forward past the ball drop and then can't reach it himself - this is a block. Does well to keep his eyes on the ball as usually there is a glance at the player which is a dead giveaway for this type of free kick. I thought this was a very good call that went Coorparoo's way

Miller1971 said:
Deliberate out of bounds call, that was there every day - took a pretty good kick to convert it!
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Agreed. Had himself a quarter that he will be talking about forever. Maybe one day the cover came off the ball and he kicked a 7-pointer to win it

Miller1971 said:
Last free kick, looked fairly clearcut - can see why they were holding him, had already kicked 3 in the quarter!
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Probably was, but I couldn't be certain from the video that was the first infringement. Umpire had quite a good view of it though. Brainfart to not contest the ruck in any case

Miller1971 said:
Great finish, some big boys!
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Agreed - what has happened to this division? where are the horizontally challenged and the masters eligible?


Having a quick look at the other quarters - same story again. Looks more like they erred on the side of missing a few free kicks rather than pay wrong ones, but that said there weren't a lot of ones missed either. Would certainly take that in a grand final or really any week of the season, and would take that group of umpires every week if you offered them to me
 
I think it was a very good umpiring performance under a lot of pressure

I would be very interested to hear why they didn't front up to the ceremony though

Maybe there was a hitch, or they needed to get home, or they were worried about an incident?

Sad indictment if so, this is the best a community umpire can hope for having reached the top of their craft and umpired a cracker of a game. Hope that's not the case
 
StillGotIt said:
I think it was a very good umpiring performance under a lot of pressure

I would be very interested to hear why they didn't front up to the ceremony though

Maybe there was a hitch, or they needed to get home, or they were worried about an incident?

Sad indictment if so, this is the best a community umpire can hope for having reached the top of their craft and umpired a cracker of a game. Hope that's not the case
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So judging from the responses to my question:
1. Biased umpiring - no
2. Incompetent umpiring- no
3. Hysteria following a close and important result - yes.
 
StillGotIt said:
I think it was a very good umpiring performance under a lot of pressure

I would be very interested to hear why they didn't front up to the ceremony though

Maybe there was a hitch, or they needed to get home, or they were worried about an incident?

Sad indictment if so, this is the best a community umpire can hope for having reached the top of their craft and umpired a cracker of a game. Hope that's not the case
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Was a neutral spectator at the game and can say a few things. Overall I agree with Miller and Still Got it. A few howlers awarded to both sides. To be expected in Div 4. Power awarded more frees in the last but only one I would consider dubious. There was a similar one awarded to Coorparoo though so even Steven.

Overall the umps did a good job IMO and I wouldn't be surprised if they left early due to all the abuse from coorparoo supporters and members (in club polos) after the game. The only sour note to easily the most thrilling grand Final I have ever seen.

Coorparoo played out of their skins for much of the game and kicked some incredible goals but Credit to the Power, coming back from 31 points down, and 2 goals down with 2 mins to go. In particular #16 Major. Kicked one of the most clutch goals I've seen from 40 on the boundary right in front of the hill with a big crowd, then the match winner a minute later. Was standing right behind the goals when that free kick was awarded and it was a clear hold of the jersey.

#34 a deserved BOG but #17 and #30 were awesome too for the Power.

#39 was very good in coorparoo backline all game, and #1 and #43 were clear stand outs

I could go on and about this game. It had everything.
 
Both teams deserved to win I thought. One of those ones where every mistake, poor decision, bounce of the ball, brainfart, line of umpire's sight gets magnified. Lots of talking points and what ifs to dwell on for a long long time. To win a flag sometimes you have to win the lottery on top of being the best team

Absolutely wrenching to lose like that, but if they were behaving like that that's very poor. No place for abuse at all
 
StillGotIt said:
Both teams deserved to win I thought. One of those ones where every mistake, poor decision, bounce of the ball, brainfart, line of umpire's sight gets magnified. Lots of talking points and what ifs to dwell on for a long long time. To win a flag sometimes you have to win the lottery on top of being the best team

Absolutely wrenching to lose like that, but if they were behaving like that that's very poor. No place for abuse at all
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I agree that if there was abuse then unacceptable. Full stop there.
In regards the umpiring performance I actually also had a look at the tape. It only has the 4th quarter so can't comment on the first 3 quarters. imo there weren't any "howlers". The final free kick is obscured but you see the player's arms go in the air to ensure the umpire sees it so again can't doubt the actual decision. I also say that in most occasions the umpires seemed in good position. So its play on and game over.
However to run against the grain here a little I will say some 50/50 calls did seem to favour one side. That happens all the time in many games in every league, every year. The laws of the game have various layers in most decisions, hence passion can allow people to see a minute part of a decision and feel aggrieved. You can't argue with that. And as you've said in a close game everything is amplified. So the reality is that like all other matters the umpiring did have an influence, just as every dropped mark, missed tackle etc as you've already stated. But it can't solely be the umpires' fault. That would be disrespecting the opposition, every game played in 150 years and all the other factors that influence the game.
So no need for abuse but as you say the side that lost feel the opportunity missed knowing anything may have made the difference, including some 50/50 umpiring decisions.
 
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Confirmation bias is a funny thing. People see the things they're trying to see, myself included. If you're looking for examples of things not going your way, you'll find them in any game no matter what side you're on

I do agree - just everything went right for the Power in that last quarter

There were calls that could absolutely have gone the other way and changed the result. There were also a lot of other factors too, defensive decision making, skill errors, the shot from the boundary coming off, etc. I think the umpires are just a bit of an easy target because they're external

Went back and looked at the whole game, twice in the first quarter there was a run of 5 consecutive free kicks to the Power. I couldn't pick out any of them that were clearly wrong though. After the first there was then a correct (loud) non-call for holding the ball against.

Things like that do build up when you're seeing the game from one side of the fence. Add in alcohol and emotion and bad singing

Sometimes (in fact nearly all the time) an uneven free kick count just means one team is making more infringements
 
StillGotIt said:
Confirmation bias is a funny thing. People see the things they're trying to see, myself included. If you're looking for examples of things not going your way, you'll find them in any game no matter what side you're on

I do agree - just everything went right for the Power in that last quarter

There were calls that could absolutely have gone the other way and changed the result. There were also a lot of other factors too, defensive decision making, skill errors, the shot from the boundary coming off, etc. I think the umpires are just a bit of an easy target because they're external

Went back and looked at the whole game, twice in the first quarter there was a run of 5 consecutive free kicks to the Power. I couldn't pick out any of them that were clearly wrong though. After the first there was then a correct (loud) non-call for holding the ball against.

Things like that do build up when you're seeing the game from one side of the fence. Add in alcohol and emotion and bad singing

Sometimes (in fact nearly all the time) an uneven free kick count just means one team is making more infringements
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Perhaps the footy gods smiled on Collingwood Park who without any doubt deserved the premiership as they'd not lost a game all year
 
Ryan Major was #16 was he? Very handy player when he was 16 or so, spent a year at Morningside playing Colts. Been in a good paddock, but can still get a kick obviously!
 

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QFA Div 4&5

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