Mega Thread Questions about the ASADA/ EFC/ players and the legal process/ defences/ liability

[Spongebob]

The provision suspension can be chosen by the athlete or applied by the sport (especially in the case of a positive A test to a steroid). There are various allowances that can be made by the sport body around conditions that are applied

It is important to remember that a provisional suspension is neither a confession nor a finding of guilt.

 

[Simple Jack]

The provision suspension can be chosen by the athlete or applied by the sport (especially in the case of a positive A test to a steroid). There are various allowances that can be made by the sport body around conditions that are applied

It is important to remember that a provisional suspension is neither a confession nor a finding of guilt.

I understand that but to me it seems as if a provisional suspension is going to be applied that will reduce the overall suspension period from the date when the player is found guilty you shouldn't be able to partake in activities that are unavailable to a suspended player.

It would be the equivalent of say having someone charged with a crime and being provisionally imprisioned (but exempted from actually attending a prison) for 6 months before the case and then being told that if found guilty they can have that 6 months taken into account.

 

[BlueWorld]

the Commission can waive the requirements under a provisional suspension. However, this means that ay real suspension starts from the new date not the provisional suspension date.

But the former Essendon players lining up in the NTFL have been told their decision to play will cancel out their rights to a provisional suspension.

It means if they are found guilty at the AFL anti-doping tribunal, their suspensions cannot be backdated.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...rthern-territory/story-fni5f6kv-1227138217898

Same would apply to Jobe & Fletcher- backdate to the date of the IR.

 

[BlueWorld]

I understand that but to me it seems as if a provisional suspension is going to be applied that will reduce the overall suspension period from the date when the player is found guilty you shouldn't be able to partake in activities that are unavailable to a suspended player.

It would be the equivalent of say having someone charged with a crime and being provisionally imprisioned (but exempted from actually attending a prison) for 6 months before the case and then being told that if found guilty they can have that 6 months taken into account.

It's a problem when it's designed for all sports but different sports have different off seasons. So a 12 month suspension is really 6 months or one season, no matter when it starts. For year round sports it would be a 12 month suspension.

 

[Simple Jack]

It's a problem when it's designed for all sports but different sports have different off seasons. So a 12 month suspension is really 6 months or one season, no matter when it starts. For year round sports it would be a 12 month suspension.

Not really. Being banned from preseason training and contact with the club during preseason (including game plan etc) is very significant. Being able to do all that stuff whilst being 'provisionally suspended' is horseshit.

 

[BlueWorld]

Not really. Being banned from preseason training and contact with the club during preseason (including game plan etc) is very significant. Being able to do all that stuff whilst being 'provisionally suspended' is horseshit.

Agree and I argued the same but that was what I was told. Why you can't train if you're suspended but can while provisionally suspended makes no sense to me either. With no games atm but allowed to train as normal is no provisional suspension at all.

 

[Proper Gander]

Agree and I argued the same but that was what I was told. Why you can't train if you're suspended but can while provisionally suspended makes no sense to me either. With no games atm but allowed to train as normal is no provisional suspension at all.

Too true

 

[kfc1]

Too true

Solid bump

 

[tigerwill]

IF the AFL tribunal hand down a guilty verdict, how and when is the penalty/sanction decided?
Would they give their decision, then take more time to hand down individual sanctions at a later date? Do the players or AFL make another presentation ie mitigating circumstances etc? Does ASADA make a recommendation in regards to the penalty/sanction?
Once again I will stipulate IF found guilty.
Does anyone know how the procedure works?

 

[compact72]

IF the AFL tribunal hand down a guilty verdict, how and when is the penalty/sanction decided?
Would they give their decision, then take more time to hand down individual sanctions at a later date? Do the players or AFL make another presentation ie mitigating circumstances etc? Does ASADA make a recommendation in regards to the penalty/sanction?
Once again I will stipulate IF found guilty.
Does anyone know how the procedure works?

The tribunal will announce their decision, then will hand out the suspensions at a later date.

I guess that if they are found guilty, the players will then try and tell the judges why they should get a lower penalties, and apply for anything they are entitled to.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Solid bump

Intentional, reckless, high impact = 2 years

 

[Rusty Crow]

The tribunal will announce their decision, then will hand out the suspensions at a later date.

I guess that if they are found guilty, the players will then try and tell the judges why they should get a lower penalties, and apply for anything they are entitled to.

Might be a good time to throw James under the bus.

 

[compact72]

Might be a good time to throw James under the bus.

Thats if he hasn't been before then

 

[neutralguy]

Intentional, reckless, high impact = 2 years

Intentional, reckless, high freqeuncy injections = wet lettuce leaf

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Intentional, reckless, high freqeuncy injections = wet lettuce leaf

Yep I think low impact to the head will draw more activation points than systematic team doping

 

[Albert Ross]

I don't want to start another thread, so I'll put this here.

McDevitt was in front of Senate's Estimates tonight

- suggests their feedback for a Tribunal decision is end of March / start of April
- in the cocaine matter (Hunt etc) pointed out that while stimulants out of competition are not an ASADA matter, trafficking would be.
- confirms that Dank is the "support person"
- probably didn't give us to much more that isn't already public domain

This is a 5 hour hearing, so you need to skip to 4.22 - 4.35.
http://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=253421

 

[Rhayader]

I don't want to start another thread, so I'll put this here.

McDevitt was in front of Senate's Estimates tonight

- suggests their feedback for a Tribunal decision is end of March / start of April
- in the cocaine matter (Hunt etc) pointed out that while stimulants out of competition are not an ASADA matter, trafficking would be.
- confirms that Dank is the "support person"
- probably didn't give us to much more that isn't already public domain

This is a 5 hour hearing, so you need to skip to 4.22 - 4.35.
http://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=253421

I presume it's the end of a long day of hearings, but still that was a pretty piss-weak effort by our elected representatives. I wish someone had asked about the AOD situation, but instead we got a bunch of questions that are probably covered on the FAQ section of ASADA's website.

 

[evo]

I don't want to start another thread, so I'll put this here.

McDevitt was in front of Senate's Estimates tonight

- suggests their feedback for a Tribunal decision is end of March / start of April
- in the cocaine matter (Hunt etc) pointed out that while stimulants out of competition are not an ASADA matter, trafficking would be.
- confirms that Dank is the "support person"
- probably didn't give us to much more that isn't already public domain

This is a 5 hour hearing, so you need to skip to 4.22 - 4.35.
http://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=253421

sounds like Dank is going to get done for trafficking

 

[Albert Ross]

I presume it's the end of a long day of hearings, but still that was a pretty piss-weak effort by our elected representatives. I wish someone had asked about the AOD situation, but instead we got a bunch of questions that are probably covered on the FAQ section of ASADA's website.

Senate Estimates basically gives every department about 15-20 minutes. So the whole day is basically like that.

The intention is mostly to put answers onto the public record. There is also a questions on notice portion where written questions get answered, and there are 3 appearances per year. This is the 'Additional Estimates' hearing, they are meant to ask questions to help decide the budget (which programs are running, do you need more staff, has project x finished, is there a new initiative etc) but it is looser than that.

 

[Rhayader]

Senate Estimates basically gives every department about 15-20 minutes. So the whole day is basically like that.

The intention is mostly to put answers onto the public record. There is also a questions on notice portion where written questions get answered, and there are 3 appearances per year. This is the 'Additional Estimates' hearing, they are meant to ask questions to help decide the budget (which programs are running, do you need more staff, has project x finished, is there a new initiative etc) but it is looser than that.

Yeah I understand estimates, but that was a pretty flimsy effort haha

 

[TerryWallet]

It sounds to me as though Ben McDevitt and ASADA are FINISHED with this as far as they're concerned.

The tribunal will give its decision.

And IF...IF, any appeals are instigated, they will be done by WADA straight to CAS, only if a wet lettuce is applied. I would suggest 12 months from last November is looking the early favorite with NO appeals from ASADA, WADA or players.

Everyone puts it behind them and gets back to normality for 2015 and for Essendon 2016.

EFC members and coteries will make the decision on Hird, Little etc fairly quickly. Either positively or negatively.

Dank can please himself. Noone gives a shit. He's forked.

 

[Thrawn]

It sounds to me as though Ben McDevitt and ASADA are FINISHED with this as far as they're concerned.

Don't be so hasty. Once the players are gone they'll be going after Hird, Ried, Hamilton, Robinson, etc.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Agree and I argued the same but that was what I was told. Why you can't train if you're suspended but can while provisionally suspended makes no sense to me either. With no games atm but allowed to train as normal is no provisional suspension at all.

priobably because being prov suspended is not the same as being suspended?

You cans suspend someone for play than fare enough. That affects the games they are banned for.

Banning someone from training would affect the entire season. If Essendon to be banned from traninging and then turn out to be not guilty their entire season is ****ed for nothing. If they turn out to be guilty they will be banned anyway.

 

[BlueWorld]

priobably because being prov suspended is not the same as being suspended?

You cans suspend someone for play than fare enough. That affects the games they are banned for.

Banning someone from training would affect the entire season. If Essendon to be banned from traninging and then turn out to be not guilty their entire season is stuffed for nothing. If they turn out to be guilty they will be banned anyway.

Fair enough but it shouldn't be included in any backdating as they have missed nothing.

 

[compact72]

Buddy, should post that in Port or Freo forums. not HTB. Has nothing to do with ASADA