Mega Thread Questions about the ASADA/ EFC/ players and the legal process/ defences/ liability

[Adelaide Hawk]

Funny how the people who were saying there was no way WADA would appeal and who went to bed sleeping soundly the night they announced it are now saying they have no chance of succeeding.

I think some Essendon supporters on this forum are beginning to realise that MAYBE they could have a problem, to stop swallowing the garbage their club has been spoon feeding them. I don't know how many Essendon supporters you know personally, but I have one very good friend who has been a solid member of the Essendon club for many years, a member of coterie groups, etc. The kind of supporter every club cherishes. He has been appalled by Essendon's attitude throughout this entire saga and seriously considering withdrawing his support.

We are only reading the misguided bravado on this forum, but I am willing to bet there are many Essendon supporters out there who would be very concerned they are not getting the information they need. These are REAL supporters who believe the club is far greater than the individual, and if Hird is found to be behaving in the way we suspect, they want him gone.

 

[Zerg]

Funny how the people who were saying there was no way WADA would appeal and who went to bed sleeping soundly the night they announced it are now saying they have no chance of succeeding.

Would be great to see examples of those...
Edit: Reread what you said and yes you are right, there are plenty of them.

For clarity

McDevitts little temper tantrum of a presser should have alerted all to the end of any chance that ASADA would appeal.

I do think WADA are a small chance to appeal though but time will tell.

 

[Zerg]

I think some Essendon supporters on this forum are beginning to realise that MAYBE they could have a problem, to stop swallowing the garbage their club has been spoon feeding them. I don't know how many Essendon supporters you know personally, but I have one very good friend who has been a solid member of the Essendon club for many years, a member of coterie groups, etc. The kind of supporter every club cherishes. He has been appalled by Essendon's attitude throughout this entire saga and seriously considering withdrawing his support.

We are only reading the misguided bravado on this forum, but I am willing to bet there are many Essendon supporters out there who would be very concerned they are not getting the information they need. These are REAL supporters who believe the club is far greater than the individual, and if Hird is found to be behaving in the way we suspect, they want him gone.

Hey guess what in most situations in life you can find people on both sides of the fence, crazy hey...

Where are you getting the "information you need"?

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

With no positive tests, no witnesses and no signed testimonies, WADA may well have a way less than 10% chance of overturning the unanimous not guilty verdict too

You don't have a clue do you? For a start, there was no "not guilty" verdict, it was a case of insufficient evidence. The players' guilt was never addressed. I wish dopey Essendon supporters would get this into their thick skulls.

This is not a matter of overturning the decision of the AFL tribunal. This is an entirely new case, being prepared by the WADA, and NOT presented to the AFL whose best interests were to wash their hands of the entire case.

You don't have a clue what information WADA have, so stop pretending you do, and start being concerned about the effect this could have on your football club.

 

[Dan Cooper]

I think some Essendon supporters on this forum are beginning to realise that MAYBE they could have a problem, to stop swallowing the garbage their club has been spoon feeding them. I don't know how many Essendon supporters you know personally, but I have one very good friend who has been a solid member of the Essendon club for many years, a member of coterie groups, etc. The kind of supporter every club cherishes. He has been appalled by Essendon's attitude throughout this entire saga and seriously considering withdrawing his support.

We are only reading the misguided bravado on this forum, but I am willing to bet there are many Essendon supporters out there who would be very concerned they are not getting the information they need. These are REAL supporters who believe the club is far greater than the individual, and if Hird is found to be behaving in the way we suspect, they want him gone.

Essendon supporters have read the 'bravado' of non-Essendon supporters here for over 2 years, and not only have our players never been found guilty of anything, with no positive tests. no witnesses and no signed testimonies they never will be

 

[Zerg]

You don't have a clue do you? For a start, there was no "not guilty" verdict, it was a case of insufficient evidence. The players' guilt was never addressed. I wish dopey Essendon supporters would get this into their thick skulls.

This is not a matter of overturning the decision of the AFL tribunal. This is an entirely new case, being prepared by the WADA, and NOT presented to the AFL whose best interests were to wash their hands of the entire case.

You don't have a clue what information WADA have, so stop pretending you do, and start being concerned about the effect this could have on your football club.

You are the dopey one mate.

Essendon players were charged with having taken TB4, The charge could not be proven, therefore they were Not Guilty of the charges, hence why Media reports refer to them being found not guilty and even Caroline Wilson printing it.

Same as in court when the charges can't be sustained due to "insufficient evidence" or whatever, the accused are Not Guilty of the charges. Doesn't suit the pitchfork brigade but it's reality.

It isn't really an entirely new case as WADA will be relying on virtually the same evidence, with the small possibility of new information, but basically running the same or at least very similar case.

So are you saying that the AFL corrupted the tribunal members to come to a pre determined outcome?

 

[Dan Cooper]

You are the dopey one mate.

Essendon players were charged with having taken TB4, The charge could not be proven, therefore they were Not Guilty of the charges, hence why Media reports refer to them being found not guilty and even Caroline Wilson printing it.

It isn't really an entirely new case as WADA will be relying on virtually the same evidence, with the small possibility of new information, but basically running the same or at least very similar case.

So are you saying that the AFL corrupted the tribunal members to come to a pre determined outcome?

Correct. WADA's case will likely be based entirely on what McDevitt and ASADA sent them, and it will then be their unenviable task of trying to overturn a unanimous not guilty verdict with a no positive tests, no witnesses and no signed testimonies case.

 

[Dan Cooper]

You don't have a clue do you? For a start, there was no "not guilty" verdict, it was a case of insufficient evidence. The players' guilt was never addressed. I wish dopey Essendon supporters would get this into their thick skulls.

This is not a matter of overturning the decision of the AFL tribunal. This is an entirely new case, being prepared by the WADA, and NOT presented to the AFL whose best interests were to wash their hands of the entire case.

You don't have a clue what information WADA have, so stop pretending you do, and start being concerned about the effect this could have on your football club.

Wow! This thing is really getting to you.

Calm down a bit and accept the fact that the players are innocent until proven guilty

Accept also that WADA have no positive tests, no witnesses and no signed testimonies to support their case to CAS

Live in hope. By all means. But ignoring the facts won't make them go away

 

[fabulousphil]

Wow! This thing is really getting to you.

Calm down a bit and accept the fact that the players are innocent until proven guilty

Accept also that WADA have no positive tests, no witnesses and no signed testimonies to support their case to CASA

Live in hope. By all means. But ignoring the facts won't make them go away

it's the look on his face that gets to me, i am both drawn and repulsed at the same time.

Check your blood pressure please !

 

[Dan Cooper]

it's the look on his face that gets to me, i am both drawn and repulsed at the same time.

Check your blood pressure please !

Seriously, I think it's sad people with zero direct involvement in this case are letting it totally consume their lives.

I'm off to training now, and I'll be smelling the roses when we go for a run. There are others here who should be doing the same thing

 

[LoungeLizard]

With no positive tests, no witnesses and no signed testimonies, WADA may well have a way less than 10% chance of overturning the unanimous not guilty verdict too

well, my thoughts are they will struggle to get needles into players, but i haven't seen the evidence, so my thoughts mean jack shit.
But one thing is for certain, they would not appeal if they didn't think they had a case

 

[Dan Cooper]

well, my thoughts are they will struggle to get needles into players, but i haven't seen the evidence, so my thoughts mean jack shit.
But one thing is for certain, they would not appeal if they didn't think they had a case

ASADA thought they had a case too, and we saw how that well that went for them.

 

[LoungeLizard]

ASADA thought they had a case too, and we saw how that well that went for them.

And Essendon supporters were saying no way WADA will appeal,and we saw how well that went for them.

 

[Dan Cooper]

And Essendon supporters were saying no way WADA will appeal,and we saw how well that went for them.

The players are innocent until proven guilty, and no matter how hard you might hope to the contrary they have never been found guilty of anything - and that's why they are playing football.

ASADA had a case that wasn't supported by positive tests, witnesses, nor signed testimonies, and was doomed to fail. WADA have the exact same case to work with. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I've maintained all along I'd welcome another look at ASADA's empty hand, and WADA will provide that.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The players are innocent until proven guilty. No matter how hard you might hope to the contrary.

ASADA had a case that wasn't supported by positive tests, witnesses, nor signed testimonies, and was doomed to fail. WADA have the exact same case to work with. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I've maintained all along I'd welcome another look at ASADA's empty hand.

I think you might have reading deficiencies, where have i ever said "i hope"
I've already said they will have trouble, but as i said, they must have something or they wouldn't appeal.

 

[Dan Cooper]

I think you might have reading deficiencies, where have i ever said "i hope"
I've already said they will have trouble, but as i said, they must have something or they wouldn't appeal.

WADA have the same case ASADA had. They are obviously hoping they can have more success with it. But the fact is the ASADA/WADA case is not supported by positive tests, witnesses, nor signed testimonies. So at best it is a long shot.

 

[Glacier]

WADA have the same case ASADA had. They are obviously hoping they can have more success with it. But the fact is the ASADA/WADA case is not supported by positive tests, witnesses, nor signed testimonies. So at best it is a long shot.

Truth is you ,like all of us, have no idea what case WADA have so dont try to state that you do
The media have no idea, the club, the supporters , the players, the AFL...all have no idea what WADA will present
To say otherwise is speculation....the sort of speculation you crap on about from the so called foamers

 

[Dan Cooper]

Truth is you ,like all of us, have no idea what case WADA have so dont try to state that you do
The media have no idea, the club, the supporters , the players, the AFL...all have no idea what WADA will present
To say otherwise is speculation....the sort of speculation you crap on about from the so called foamers

WADA have nothing more than ASADA had. All they have is what ASADA sent them. Surely you know at least that much?

 

[Glacier]

WADA have nothing more than ASADA had. All they have is what ASADA sent them. Surely you know at least that much?

Should I re quote my previous post for you??
you, like everybody else, have no idea how WADA will present this case nor if any further details have been obtained....so don't pretend that you know when you have no more idea than the rest of us

 

[Dan Cooper]

Should I re quote my previous post for you??
you, like everybody else, have no idea how WADA will present this case nor if any further details have been obtained....so don't pretend that you know when you have no more idea than the rest of us

WADA are not conducting their own investigation. That much is understood by the parties, including the Essendon 34.

WADA's appeal is based on their claiming the bar was set too high, and if they ever get around to writing their brief, that's what it will point at.

Then if WADA proceed to CAS - and at this point in time that isn't certain - it will rely on ASADA's case files for it's 'evidence.'

 

[Glacier]

WADA are not conducting their own investigation. That much is understood by the parties, including the Essendon 34.

WADA's appeal is based on their claiming the bar was set too high. If they ever get around to writing their brief that's what it will point at.

I can only say to you, again, that you, like me and like everyone else, have no idea how they will present this so to say they will present it exactly the same is just incorrect

 

[Dan Cooper]

I can only say to you, again, that you, like me and like everyone else, have no idea how they will present this so to say they will present it exactly the same is just incorrect

Wrong!

What I am saying would only be incorrect if WADA actually presented new evidence, and they won't, because they are not conducting their own investigation - and will rely on the evidence provided to them by ASADA. That much is already understood by Essendon football club and the Essendon 34.

 

[Glacier]

Wrong!

What I am saying would only be incorrect if WADA actually presented new evidence, and they won't, because they are not conducting their own investigation - and will rely on the evidence provided to them by ASADA. That much is already understood by Essendon football club and the Essendon 34.

WADA can introduce new evidence, and you dont know if they will, neither do I or anyone so you are incorrect again

 

[Dan Cooper]

WADA can introduce new evidence, and you dont know if they will, neither do I or anyone so you are incorrect again

Until they do, accusing me of being wrong is wrong

 

[compact72]

Until they do, accusing me of being wrong is wrong

Just another assumption you make.

You have absolutely no idea what evidence they have, and if there is new evidence