Mega Thread Questions about the ASADA/ EFC/ players and the legal process/ defences/ liability

[Obese Arachnid]

[QUOTE="DonsRule, post: 41118709, member: 12106"

A few I talked to said the test WADA seems to have used has only really had relatively small scale testing to gain data from.

Anything I have said has said it may be something that well get the case over the line, but the test results themselves won't on their own.[/QUOTE]

In a situation like that you wouldn't want to rely on results until they are scientifically approved.

 

[bing181]

Now that the season is over, does anyone know if the players have taken provisional bans again, as they did last off-season.

(or even if that's possible)?

 

[Dry Rot]

What is the timing of the case?

If CAS finds the WADA case not proven (to their standard), then end of story.

If CAS finds the WADA case proven (to their standard), then what happens?

Bans? Given out by whom?

 

[compact72]

Now that the season is over, does anyone know if the players have taken provisional bans again, as they did last off-season.

(or even if that's possible)?

No they didn't. However not sure if they can

What is the timing of the case?

If CAS finds the WADA case not proven (to their standard), then end of story.

If CAS finds the WADA case proven (to their standard), then what happens?

Bans? Given out by whom?

if CAS case is not proven, thats the end
if CAS case is proven, thats the end (however they can appeal, but it's very difficult, and wouldn't be worth it). Not 100% sure

CAS determines the penalties, however they can get the AFL to give out the punishment (find this extremely unlikely)

 

[Thrawn]

Now that the season is over, does anyone know if the players have taken provisional bans again, as they did last off-season.

(or even if that's possible)?

They can't.

 

[JD Tomahawk]

So when is the case? Would be good to have it all out of the way for good once and for all before the 16' season

 

[Malifice]

So when is the case? Would be good to have it all out of the way for good once and for all before the 16' season

November mate. It'll all be done and dusted by Christmas.

 

[Thrawn]

November mate. It'll all be done and dusted by Christmas.

If found guilty, they'll take a month to make a decision? Thought it'd be at least a few months.

 

[Malifice]

December IMO. Pure speculation though.

 

[Thrawn]

Malifice, when CAS finds athletes guilty, do they also announce the penalty at the time or is there a separate hearing for that?

 

[DapperJong]

If found guilty

when CAS finds athletes guilty

 

[Malifice]

Malifice, when CAS finds athletes guilty, do they also announce the penalty at the time or is there a separate hearing for that?

I don't know if there is a seperate sentencing hearing mate.

Anyone else got any idea?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Mate not all athletes are from Essendon, after last years performance, not many are from Essendon.

 

[compact72]

Mate not all athletes are from Essendon, after last years performance, not many are from Essendon.

Luckily Crammers booted more goals than Essendon when he played them. GG

Crammers mum also gave the go ahead with the supplements, as her Google skills are fantastic

 

[DapperJong]

Mate not all athletes are from Essendon, after last years performance, not many are from Essendon.

yeah i get my mistake now sorry Thrawn

 

[compact72]

yeah i get my mistake now sorry Thrawn

Thrawn angry

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Malifice, when CAS finds athletes guilty, do they also announce the penalty at the time or is there a separate hearing for that?

I don't know if there is a seperate sentencing hearing mate.

Anyone else got any idea?

CAS will hand down its ruling and any suspensions at the same time. In the last few weeks they handed down an Australian canoeing appeal case brought by Tate Smith for his 2 years suspension. CAS upheld the initial suspension.

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/us...C_v._Mr_Tate_Smith_-_Final_Arbitral_Award.PDF

The verdict was delivered on 2nd October 2015, but ASADA didnt go public until the 28th October. His 2 year suspension starts from the date he was provisionally suspended on 8th September 2014 so this gold medalist from the K4-100m in London wont be able to defend his title and it will be up to his team mates to do so in Rio, which ends on 21st August .

https://www.asada.gov.au/news/media...llist-tate-smith-receives-two-year-sports-ban

 

[Thrawn]

Thrawn angry

Nah, I can't be mad to a face like that.

 

[Boxhead_31]

CAS saying the AFL erred in looking at each step in isolation not looking at the whole?

 

[compact72]

View attachment 206091
CAS saying the AFL erred in looking at each step in isolation not looking at the whole?

Interesting.

David Jones being in the County Court, could apply that level. As your talking about murder charges etc. They wouldn't perhaps use the "cable analysis".

Which could be why he was appointed for the ASADA hearing?

 

[miccullen]

View attachment 206091
CAS saying the AFL erred in looking at each step in isolation not looking at the whole?

Because it suited their goals to do whatever they could in order to get the players off, and then hope it went no further. It was a stupid hope, but at that point they had done what they could to make it go away.

 

[Malifice]

View attachment 206091
CAS saying the AFL erred in looking at each step in isolation not looking at the whole?

At least I was right about something!

 

[The_Wookie]

View attachment 206091
CAS saying the AFL erred in looking at each step in isolation not looking at the whole?

It was always a curious look. WHo cares HOW he got it, thats not the AFLs remit. What mattered is he had it and distributed it.

 

[Malifice]

It was always a curious look. WHo cares HOW he got it, thats not the AFLs remit. What mattered is he had it and distributed it.

Thats what I was saying all along. You need to look at the evidence as a whole with each bit adding more weight to the case, and not look at the evidence, each bit in isolation.

And the evidence was damning.

Intresting from the decision there is a glaring error that I noticed. In debating the reduction of sanctions, CAS mentioned that one of the reasons for the delay was the 'Players' seeking to appeal the infraction notices at the Federal Court. As this contriubted to the delay, the players bear some responsibilty for the delay.

The players did no such thing. It was the EFC that appealed the decision. The players intentionally did not join the proceedgings for this very reason.

Not much weight was put on this, but it could be grounds for an appeal to have the length of suspension reduced IMO.

 

[M Malice]

just posted this on another thread and then noticed and thought this thread might be more appropriate for the questions in my post.

have not read over the entire thread, so may have been covered.
have a question regarding the letter of consent that the players are widely reported to have signed authorizing the "supplements program", the substance/s that were listed and agreed to by the players, was it/they on the banned list at that point in time?? if they were, even if the players did not find out till the whole story broke years ago, i can not fathom why wouldn't they just take the back dated cronulla type bans when or if they found out it/they were banned?
on another note just watched jonathan brown being interviewed on fox, said he and all players would more than likely have done the same thing if in the essendon players shoes and went along with it. (would not be the case now you would think) clubs operate as a trusting family like environment, you take your coaches/high performance staffs word on what they are telling you is true and they have your best interests in the front of their mind.
it has been reported that doc reid was against the program and voiced concerns to the club. if he was that concerned i have always wondered, did he talk to the players either individually or as a group in person to voice those concerns?? and if he did that paints a different picture re. the players culpability.
some how i don't think the whole truth of this sad sorry affair will ever come out, as they say 3 versions- yours, mine and the truth, the latter is the hardest to find.