R3: Port v Adelaide review

[Portia]

I was saying to a friend that maybe Williams is cultivating outside midfielders in the team like a farm in order to use a couple of them to get the player(s) we so desperately need.

Trading fast so-so midfielders for gun key forwards. How's that working out for every other club in the league?

Its established fact by now that the only way you get gun key forwards is by continually drafting good key forwards until you get one. We haven't been doing that.



* Unless you are Sydney, in which case you trade for one from St Kilda.

 

[Sandola]

How the hell did he get equal best on ground for the medal?

I know he got 41 touches but 80% of them had no hurt factor. His brother Shaun had 12 touches and kicked 4 goals and IMO was your second best behind Chad. Shaun had far more influence with his 12 possessions and nearly won it for you, Peter had 41 and could be accused as losing it.

I wonder if they got the two mixed up or just looked at the stats sheet.

Peter B. was like two separate players yesterday. His play as a full-on back was annoyingly inept. (But it was our forwards whol lost us the game, not our defense.) When he was given the opportunity to run and dispose he was excellent, and gave us chances time after time, most of which came to nothing because of Adelaide's good defensive work.

 

[PAFC04]

This was a devestating loss. I want to know from others, if this loss was worse than the GF 0f '07, IMO, it's wosre, because the Crows are no where near the level the Cat's are at. So where does it leave Port.

In the GF, at least we lost by a margin great than one straight kick and by a team, who where clearly a much better team on the day and better drilled.

I haven't got Port in my top 8 this year reason because teams have learnt our style of football and younger players are still learning. As Ford put it, laerning not to lose games is what our younger players are trying to do. (I could be worng)

The positives out of this game.

WE put a team effort in.
WE showed that we're not sooks.
Played hard and tough, only because of the media hype.

The negatives

FORGOT TO PLAY FOOTY!!!

If we can only some how produce the positive and negatives on match day's, we will be very hard to beat.

What really gives me the shits, after someone has taken so long to kick for goals only to score a point, the player kicking back in always seems to have a player to kick to. The only player who doesn't have a player to pick up is the goal kicker, who really should be picking up the man who stood the mark, all the rest within that time frame should have picked picking up a player before the goal kicker has kicked it.

A little 1% percent thinking to make that much harder for the other team to get it out of their defensive 50.

I know the players are trying to get the breath back, but for F*^K sake, do it when you have picked up a player. The kick ins should be the hardest thing to do. We have to got make them kick to a contested mark, so that the midfield can rebound to a foward.

The best defensive that any team can do is to ATTACK that Geelong seem to do with ease. Who has won a war defending?

If Rodan was best on ground with a slight knee injury, it dosen't put the rest of the players who played the same role in the same catergory as Rodan. Well done Rodan!!

 

[Sekaj]

But the question is, did you really play hard and tough, though? Sure, you hurt a few Crows bodies but you still lost the contested posessions.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Nowhere near the 07 GF, not even on the same planet. That was a GF and we lost by 20 goals. No comparison.

We lost this game by a kick and it's the best I've seen us play against the crows in in all of Craig's 3 full years at the crows, bar maybe the win in 06. Sure we didn't do a lot of things as well as we could have, but for the first time this year (and one of few if you throw in the last couple of years) we put in a committed, accountable contested effort, and made our presence felt physically. And this with the same side that last week was dismissed as soft and sooks.

Our forward line is dysfunctional at the moment and was rendered impotent by the crows very good back six, but our 'no-name' defence held up well and our midfield generally worked hard throughout the game.

I was shattered to lose but I'm already looking to the Brisbane game. Time to move on and look for the breakthrough win.

This is a strange year - for me it's almost like this year is the year we should've had last year so that we could learn more about our gameplan options and the players on our list. But everything fell into place last year and we probably didn't have the learning experience we should have had. It looks like we'll get that this year. I think Natman said this could be the year to take a step back to get ready to take more steps forward. That's how I'm looking at it, at this point.

 

[PAFC04]

Nowhere near the 07 GF, not even on the same planet. That was a GF and we lost by 20 goals. No comparison.

Thats my point, we were beaten by a much better side by 20 goals, if we put the same effort as we did against the Crows in that final, we would have lost by 10 goals, thats the comparison I make.

We lost this game by a kick and it's the best I've seen us play against the crows in in all of Craig's 3 full years at the crows, bar maybe the win in 06. Sure we didn't do a lot of things as well as we could have, but for the first time this year (and one of few if you throw in the last couple of years) we put in a committed, accountable contested effort, and made our presence felt physically. And this with the same side that last week was dismissed as soft and sooks.

Our forward line is dysfunctional at the moment and was rendered impotent by the crows very good back six, but our 'no-name' defence held up well and our midfield generally worked hard throughout the game.

I was shattered to lose but I'm already looking to the Brisbane game. Time to move on and look for the breakthrough win.

This is a strange year - for me it's almost like this year is the year we should've had last year so that we could learn more about our gameplan options and the players on our list. But everything fell into place last year and we probably didn't have the learning experience we should have had. It looks like we'll get that this year. I think Natman said this could be the year to take a step back to get ready to take more steps forward. That's how I'm looking at it, at this point.

I also did metion that our younger players are learning, and perhaps we may have to take two steps back and leap forward.

But I agree with your post.

 

[Black 18]

Terrible, terrible game-plan (like usual) by Mr Sony.

How we could not beat the Crows, given everything that had happened during the game, is beyond belief.

We won the rucks, won the clearances, has more inside 50's, had our full squad basically to choose from and still managed to lose. That says as much about our silly gameplan as anything.

I feel sorry for the players who battled well i thought, they can battle as hard as they like but we will not win tough games until we have more instinctive play and risk taking than we currently are allowed to.

Heaven help us if David Rodan gets injured, he is the only one who plays with natural flair.

Choco really needs to wake up and realise he is nowhere near as important to a victory as he wants to believe he is. We look scared to play on, scared to kick to a contest, scared to lead anywhere but wide, we look like Eddie says - a Playstation team.

So, so disappointed.

 

[gorangers]

But the question is, did you really play hard and tough, though? Sure, you hurt a few Crows bodies but you still lost the contested posessions.

yeah i agree you hurt our players but we won more contested ball i think that the brogan bump is going to be reviewed a bit over the week.

 

[Janus]

Trading fast so-so midfielders for gun key forwards. How's that working out for every other club in the league?

Its established fact by now that the only way you get gun key forwards is by continually drafting good key forwards until you get one. We haven't been doing that.



* Unless you are Sydney, in which case you trade for one from St Kilda.

The problem is who have we had the option of drafting but didn't that fills that role? 2001-2004 we were in top-up/trade mode. In 2005 there were no key forwards of note (at least none that have made an impact in 3 years), 2006 was our best chance but we could only go for Mitchell Thorp (a hell of a pick to waste on a potentially good key forward...unlike Gumbleton or Hansen who were considered class). And last year we picked Lobbe with our first pick.

Unlike Hawthorn, Carlton, Richmond, St.Kilda etc., we haven't bottomed out enough to get into the real cream of the draft...and as you say, key forwards who are good are as rare as hens teeth. Other teams who have picks before us are going to snaffle anyone who even looks REMOTELY like being a gun, purely for their trade value if nothing else. So we're stuck with drafting project key forwards and hoping for a diamond in the rough ala Westhoff.

There's a few key forwards rated in the top 25 this draft...if we can't manufacture a way to get Hurley, then someone like Lewis Johnstone should go alright as well.

 

[powerfull]

Thomas got off from bassets injury... was given no case to answer, good stuff , right decision.

 

[Sekaj]

We won the rucks, won the clearances, has more inside 50's, had our full squad basically to choose from and still managed to lose.

Because you didn't have enough players going for the hard ball. Yes, you won in all the areas you mentioned but you lost in one crucial statistical area - contested possessions.

 

[Sekaj]

Thomas got off from bassets injury... was given no case to answer, good stuff , right decision.

Probably wasn't really too much in it. He gave away the free kick for a push in the back which was all it warranted. We got a goal out of it and won by six points. So, in retrospect it was a costly free kick to give away.

 

[SAINTS 4 07 FLAG]

Sorry boys/ladies i have not seen alipate carlile play and would just like to know what role he plays. Help is much appreciated .

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Sorry boys/ladies i have not seen alipate carlile play and would just like to know what role he plays. Help is much appreciated .

Direct any further queries to this thread.

 

[tribey]

Sorry boys/ladies i have not seen alipate carlile play and would just like to know what role he plays. Help is much appreciated .

Nippy in and under type, like his cousin Rodan.

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say the only real criticism we have of him is he doesn't kick enough goals.

 

[portentous]

Nippy in and under type, like his cousin Rodan.

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say the only real criticism we have of him is he doesn't kick enough goals.

 

[*PAFC*13]

I'm in love with a man named Matt Thomas!!!

 

[Steve Dore]

Good review as always Macca.

.... Crows supporters can froth at the mouth all they like but all bar one bump and Thomas' tackle were legal. ...

I didn't see anything wrong with any of those incidents. The report of Thomas and the down field free was a total joke. Fortunately the MRP agree with me

We did get a dream run from the umpires early on in the game though.

....
Ebert - Poor. Very poor....

One thing that really annoyed me in the last quarter was a play were one of our players (can't recall who) had marked on the outer wing. Westhoff led to centre half forward and had 10 metres on his nearest opponent. That lead was ignored and then Ebert, who was having a dog of a day, lead to the pocket with is opponent hot on his tail. The kick went to Ebert who couldn't mark it and the Crows ended up clearing the ball.

Why are our players drilled to always kick to the pockets?

....
K Cornes - Fantastic job on Mcleod, who hes beaten 3 or 4 times now and got plenty of it himself. Tried his heart out ......

Disagree. In the first half Kane was very ordinary. In the first quarter Chad marked the ball on the members side back flank and passed to Kane who was so busy watching McLeod that he stood there and watched McLeod mark the ball. No attempt to go for the mark or spoil even though the pass was clearly to him. McLeod sent the Crows forward and they goaled.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

One thing that really annoyed me in the last quarter was a play were one of our players (can't recall who) had marked on the outer wing. Westhoff led to centre half forward and had 10 metres on his nearest opponent. That lead was ignored and then Ebert, who was having a dog of a day, lead to the pocket with is opponent hot on his tail. The kick went to Ebert who couldn't mark it and the Crows ended up clearing the ball.

Why are our players drilled to always kick to the pockets?

Graham Cornes did a piece on this a couple of weeks back. His view is that Port go to the pockets as a percentage play. A spillage from the contests means we can load up a set play from the throw in. A spillage in the corridor opens up the play too much for the opposition to clear and set up.

It's an awful defensive mindset, at odds with how you'd think most people want to see football played.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Graham Cornes did a piece on this a couple of weeks back. His view is that Port go to the pockets as a percentage play. A spillage from the contests means we can load up a set play from the throw in. A spillage in the corridor opens up the play too much for the opposition to clear and set up.

It's an awful defensive mindset, at odds with how you'd think most people want to see football played.

These thoughts are confirmed by Champion Data's analysis. A paragraph from the analysis of the Port game plan. from the 2008 AFL Prospectus.

Since entering the competition there is no better team at taking advantage of a slick clearance get away going bang, bang, goal than Port. And who is the master at consistently setting up teammates with a palm to t!t? Mr Lade! It happens too often to call it an accident.

Edit: shit t!t is considered a swear word???

 

[Steve Dore]

Graham Cornes did a piece on this a couple of weeks back. His view is that Port go to the pockets as a percentage play. A spillage from the contests means we can load up a set play from the throw in. A spillage in the corridor opens up the play too much for the opposition to clear and set up .....

It is also very flawed logic.

The more times the ball is handled the more chances there are to turn it over.

A tall forward marking under minimal pressure at CHF directly in front is a much higher percentage play than being able to force the ball out in the pocket, win the ensuing ruck contest, tap to one of our players (Shaun) in the clear and get a clear shot on goal from an angle.

We seem to go for the low percentage plays more often than not. Teams that play straight down the corridor and get the ball in quickly to their forwards smash us.

 

[tribey]

Graham Cornes did a piece on this a couple of weeks back. His view is that Port go to the pockets as a percentage play. A spillage from the contests means we can load up a set play from the throw in. A spillage in the corridor opens up the play too much for the opposition to clear and set up.

It's an awful defensive mindset, at odds with how you'd think most people want to see football played.

It's a sound, if not overly predictable gameplan.

If the forward doesn't mark it out wide and it spills out, the best ruck combo in the business gets a chance to spoonfeed the best forward clearance player in the business.

Not terribly pleasing to look at and frustrating as hell, but it gets the job done (Casey, 2007).

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Not terribly pleasing to look at and frustrating as hell, but it gets the job done (Casey, 2007).

..

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Official crowd 45,524

Official seating capacity 51,515

http://sanfl.com.au/aami_stadium/about_aami_stadium/

Can someone who went to the game tell me where the f@!k 6,000 empty seats were?? Watching on TV you could see a few empty seats and maybe in the members as the camera doesn't pan around much in that area, but 12% under maximum capacity is very hard to believe.

Does Max still have his gate that he would collect the money from in the early 1990's, understate the crowds so that the Vics wouldn't get much of the gate takings?? Surely this official figure is incorrect.

 

[Portia]

The problem is who have we had the option of drafting but didn't that fills that role? 2001-2004 we were in top-up/trade mode. In 2005 there were no key forwards of note (at least none that have made an impact in 3 years), 2006 was our best chance but we could only go for Mitchell Thorp (a hell of a pick to waste on a potentially good key forward...unlike Gumbleton or Hansen who were considered class). And last year we picked Lobbe with our first pick.

So because we can't get a powerhouse, we're not even worried about getting an OK tall forward. We don't even have anyone of Ashley Hansen/Quinten Lynch quality!

Unlike Hawthorn, Carlton, Richmond, St.Kilda etc., we haven't bottomed out enough to get into the real cream of the draft...and as you say, key forwards who are good are as rare as hens teeth. Other teams who have picks before us are going to snaffle anyone who even looks REMOTELY like being a gun, purely for their trade value if nothing else. So we're stuck with drafting project key forwards and hoping for a diamond in the rough ala Westhoff.

OK, so you're pretty much saying that our plan is to do basically exactly like Carlton - keep grinding out wins and almost-premierships with a side that has clear deficiencies in terms of youth, until finally enough is enough, we can't even grind out wins any more, and we wallow at the bottom of the ladder for the best part of a decade?

Because if thats not our plan, then the club needs to do something about it to make it not happen.