Opinion Reckon we could / would change our name for Sir Doug Nicholls Round in future years?

[Wearmouth]

I'm not cherry picking your posts. All your posts in this thread suggest that an inter-generational cycle of disadvantage and trauma can be easily broken. And you're looking for reasons why it hasn't been broken yet, as opposed to acknowledging that the cycle exists and will probably take generations of assistance and really hard work by all concerned to re-balance the disadvantage that has been imposed on indigenous Australians.

Let’s consider an organization like Collingwood. That can be viewed as having systematic racism running throughout it since it’s inception. It could be said that it has had it ingrained in its walls. Considering how we’ve been embroiled in many racially charged issues throughout the history of the AFL.

Yet in the space of less than 2 years we have embarked on a path to changing our position. Changing our culture internally and within the supporter base.

If the right people and the right motivations are put in place. Everything is possible. As long as all those involved want the outcome. Collingwood can be a case in point.

What is now evident, and that’s my point is that the problem isn’t that we aren’t spending enough. All parties, outside of the actual Indigenous Australians in remote communities, aren’t really interested in solving the problem. There is just way too much money to be made off of it. That they now don’t want it solved. How else can they be kept relevant and keep using the plight of those Australians to keep achieving their own selfish outcomes.

I have no problem with state government passing legislation that any new suburbs and streets be all named using localized Indigenous identifiers. This will add to our wonderful tapestry. But to waste time and money on existing identifiers is wrong. Especially when money could be better spent. Fixing real issues.

I’m not asking Indigenous Australians become like everyone else. I want Indigenous Australians to be the best versions of themselves. Be the people of this nation. Teach your culture. So that we can all enjoy it’s indomitable beauty. Just like I want all contributing cultures to be the best versions of themselves.

The diverse tapestry of this country is what has made us a great place to live. I’m not one who tolerates the status quo method of let’s keep repeating a process that doesn’t work. Futile.

And I sure as hell won’t apologize for seeing things that others just can’t. Hence why I hated Soy Boy. Once I can identify where I think a problem comes from. You really need to present some highly informed facts to change my mind.


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[Wearmouth]

Lol, if you're coming to the defence of him then you're probably similar in wanting those uppity Indigenous people to know their place. Good to know.

That’s the way….unless you’re one of us, your not allowed to comment.

One of us….

One of us….

One of us….

Your clueless hatred because you got put into your place on many other threads keeps exposing you.

Many on here no my mind. But there are even more who know exactly how you operate.

Keep it up.


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[loki04]

And I'll let the broken indigenous people I know that they aren't broken, that they're alright because loki said so. Shame I couldn't pass on that little pearl of wisdom to my 36 year old indigenous niece who died of a heart attack. I'm sure it would have been a difference maker for her.

I'm not the one claiming they're aren't some broken communties and victims within it.
I didn't throw around the generalisation.
Or that there aren't some in fact is said there were SOME just not all.

You claimed they ALL are and it's not correct.

You aren't the only one with family, friends and work colleagues who have indigenous in them.

Sad to hear about your niece that is very young age to pass away, I too loss my father when he was 32 to heart failure.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The keyboard accountant that you are Dennis.

Hot tip: Best to not mix-up your accountant with your lawyer. They do very different things and have very different skillsets.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Biography - Sir Douglas Ralph (Doug) Nicholls - Australian Dictionary of Biography

adb.anu.edu.au

 

[loki04]

I'm pretty sure they're aware of their peoples being near-eradicated by colonisers and subsequent efforts.

I'm pretty sure (in fact certain) not all of them describe themselves as victims and broken.

Not all of them live as a victim or broken, many live happily, working, loving, healthy people and families.

To say they all are broken and victims is just crap and does a disservice to those people.

 

[Jim Levenstein]

Lol, if you're coming to the defence of him then you're probably similar in wanting those uppity Indigenous people to know their place. Good to know.

I don’t know him nor you. Best not be judging me, you have no idea what I do and have done on my annual leave in remote communities. The club can and should do more than renaming, end of discussion.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I'm not the one claiming they're aren't some broken communties and victims within it.
I didn't throw around the generalisation.
Or that there aren't some in fact is said there were SOME just not all.

You claimed they ALL are and it's not correct.

You aren't the only one with family, friends and work colleagues who have indigenous in them.

Sad to hear about your niece that is very young age to pass away, I too loss my father when he was 32 to heart failure.

And as I've said, I'm happy to stand by my generalisation. As a cohort, it's the most apt descriptor.

I have a nephew who's indigenous, lives and works in Oenpelli currently and has worked in many remote communities. Have another niece who's indigenous and lives and works in Newcastle. There mother has lived and worked in remote communities. Have another sister who has worked in the justice system in Victoria and the NT working predominantly with indigenous communities. I have strong ties to indigenous communities in Portland and Heywood and along the Murray. Universally, the sense within those communities is of a broken mob(s).

Sorry to here about your old man, you must have been young.

 

[Jim Levenstein]

Personally I feel the proposition could / would make a difference.

I hope so, I just fail to see how it impacts change from people it is needed. It definitely requires a tonne more effort from the club in conjunction.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

I hope so, I just fail to see how it impacts change from people it is needed. It definitely requires a tonne more effort from the club in conjunction.

Agree that much more needs to be done and I think our club is trying to do things better. I think the name change proposal is just a small gesture of acknowledgement but when I reflect on the 1967 referendum as an example I wonder how it would happen without that first step of simple acknowledgement.

 

[loki04]

And as I've said, I'm happy to stand by my generalisation. As a cohort, it's the most apt descriptor.

I have a nephew who's indigenous, lives and works in Oenpelli currently and has worked in many remote communities. Have another niece who's indigenous and lives and works in Newcastle. There mother has lived and worked in remote communities. Have another sister who has worked in the justice system in Victoria and the NT working predominantly with indigenous communities. I have strong ties to indigenous communities in Portland and Heywood and along the Murray. Universally, the sense within those communities is of a broken mob(s).

Sorry to here about your old man, you must have been young.

Look I have 3 uncles and 9 cousins with indigenous blood who dont fit that description nor do they like to be seen that way.
Also a step brother (who fits the generalisation).
Have friends who sit both sides of the fence from broken hill.
I now live in FNQ and have new friends and work colleagues who live happy healthy and functioning non victims nor broken people.

Not all of them cling to that description or want to live in that space.
Some see it as a crutch that helps keep them down.

 

[Wearmouth]

And I'll let the broken indigenous people I know that they aren't broken, that they're alright because loki said so. Shame I couldn't pass on that little pearl of wisdom to my 36 year old indigenous niece who died of a heart attack. I'm sure it would have been a difference maker for her.

Molly I don’t want to make light of you nieces passing or in any way cause you any further grief. I just want to have a discussion about how wrong we are viewing the things that can actually help.

It costs roughly close to $1Bil dollars to build and fully equip a 500 bed hospital with everything needed to start taking patients, in the major cities of Australian. In just close to a 3 year time frame. Now I’m not advocating that we build 500 bed hospitals in remote communities around Australia as this would be a derelict use of resources.

However, considering our immigration needs and the want to come to Australia. I would think to help rectify something that is a blatant key factor to Indigenous Australians in remote communities, being provided with and receiving the appropriate health care to enable those communities to at least achieve similar life expectancies as anyone else in this country.

Spending $20-$30 million in establishing community health centers. Training and developing indigenous people to support and sustain these facilities. They also need to be owned by the communities with a constant supply of support workers as a tour of duty for those new arrivals to Australia. As medical professionals.

With the government’s involvement being phased out gradually as more and more of the community members are able to take the reigns.

This will take support from the community elders and matriarchs. With even a focus of tradition medicines being used by the indigenous.

I’d rather see the money be spent directly and be put in the hands of those it is suppose to help. Than to be given to third party set ups who are specifically created to mop up these funds for capital expenditure projects that once completed are left in ruin as no one takes responsibility for there continued success.

I just think of all the wonderful opportunities this country is missing out on from the indigenous genetic pool, to enhance our progress as a nation. Einstein took until he was 26 to really climb to prominence. Surely I think we owe it to ourselves to get this area of concern rectified.


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[sr36]

Let’s consider an organization like Collingwood. That can be viewed as having systematic racism running throughout it since it’s inception. It could be said that it has had it ingrained in its walls. Considering how we’ve been embroiled in many racially charged issues throughout the history of the AFL.

Yet in the space of less than 2 years we have embarked on a path to changing our position. Changing our culture internally and within the supporter base.

If the right people and the right motivations are put in place. Everything is possible. As long as all those involved want the outcome. Collingwood can be a case in point.

What is now evident, and that’s my point is that the problem isn’t that we aren’t spending enough. All parties, outside of the actual Indigenous Australians in remote communities, aren’t really interested in solving the problem. There is just way too much money to be made off of it. That they now don’t want it solved. How else can they be kept relevant and keep using the plight of those Australians to keep achieving their own selfish outcomes.

I have no problem with state government passing legislation that any new suburbs and streets be all named using localized Indigenous identifiers. This will add to our wonderful tapestry. But to waste time and money on existing identifiers is wrong. Especially when money could be better spent. Fixing real issues.

I’m not asking Indigenous Australians become like everyone else. I want Indigenous Australians to be the best versions of themselves. Be the people of this nation. Teach your culture. So that we can all enjoy it’s indomitable beauty. Just like I want all contributing cultures to be the best versions of themselves.

The diverse tapestry of this country is what has made us a great place to live. I’m not one who tolerates the status quo method of let’s keep repeating a process that doesn’t work. Futile.

And I sure as hell won’t apologize for seeing things that others just can’t. Hence why I hated Soy Boy. Once I can identify where I think a problem comes from. You really need to present some highly informed facts to change my mind.


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You really are all over the shop in your thinking about this.

Two years ago The Pies received the findings of a review into our responses to racism. The findings were that our responses to racism were disadvantaging people of colour. We're currently in the process of making changes to remove the disadvantage. That's as recently as 2 years ago and the recommendations haven't been completed yet. And that's just one organisation. Some had already made changes. Others are yet to. There's still significant obstacles to equality at the organisational and institutional level.

At the individual level, you've got thousands who have experienced trauma and are still recovering from it. Thousands more who grew up in families suffering from trauma and were disadvantaged by it. That whole cycle isn't going to be a quick fix. That's before we get into the poverty cycle and the difficulty of breaking that.

So of course equal laws and just throwing money at the situation isn't going to bring about equality quickly. I'm sure you can find some examples of "pigs at the trough" in terms of public funding. But your leap to that being the issue and the funding mechanisms resulting in people ensuring things stay the same is just conspiracy theory rubbish, with nothing supporting it.

 

[gouki88]

I don’t know him nor you. Best not be judging me, you have no idea what I do and have done on my annual leave in remote communities. The club can and should do more than renaming, end of discussion.

Of course it can. Renaming is too much for Ronnie's racist sensitivities

 

[gouki88]

That’s the way….unless you’re one of us, your not allowed to comment.

One of us….

One of us….

One of us….

Your clueless hatred because you got put into your place on many other threads keeps exposing you.

Many on here no my mind. But there are even more who know exactly how you operate.

Keep it up.


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Your gibberish makes even less sense than usual. Really in a spin aren't ya Ron! Trying so hard to be an edgy free thinker that you forget to think

 

[Fat Jesus]

Of course it can. Renaming is too much for Ronnie's racist sensitivities

Is this renaming for two rounds of every year?

 

[Wearmouth]

Hot tip: Best to not mix-up your accountant with your lawyer. They do very different things and have very different skillsets.

Yet they both occupy similar status to car salesman and politicians.

Low levels on the evolutionary ladder.


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[gouki88]

Is this renaming for two rounds of every year?

It is a fairly new initiative for Doug Nicholls round.

 

[gouki88]

Yet they both occupy similar status to car salesman and politicians.

Low levels on the evolutionary ladder.


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Where do basement-dwelling bigots sit on this ladder of yours?

 

[Wearmouth]

Of course it can. Renaming is too much for Ronnie's racist sensitivities

Do you think you’re on Wheel of Fortune.

Instead of just aimless spitting out answers.

Buy a clue…..

Buy a vowel….

Do something instead of this inane crap.


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[gouki88]

Do you think you’re on Wheel of Fortune.

Instead of just aimless spitting out answers.

Buy a clue…..

Buy a vowel….

Do something instead of this inane crap.


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More nonsensical gibberish. I do appreciate how you break it into singular lines to help folk similarly minded to yourself keep up though. Considerate, by your standards

 

[Mollythedolly]

Look I have 3 uncles and 9 cousins with indigenous blood who dont fit that description nor do they like to be seen that way.
Also a step brother (who fits the generalisation).
Have friends who sit both sides of the fence from broken hill.
I now live in FNQ and have new friends and work colleagues who live happy healthy and functioning non victims nor broken people.

Not all of them cling to that description or want to live in that space.
Some see it as a crutch that helps keep them down.

You focus on individuals. I'm very happy for them. My remaining niece and nephew are both likewise doing very well. But how are the mobs of these individuals you know travelling? That's what I've been talking about. The mobs. First nations people as a cohort. The mobs I know and get feedback from are broken. Even the mob of my niece and nephew from Portland. They still experience inequality, they still experience disadvantage, they still experience racism, they still experience over representation in the negative elements of societal life like exposure to the criminal justice system and domestic violence, they still experience lower life expectancy, they still experience well above average child mortality rates, they still experience higher unemployment, they still experience lower entry into tertiary education. I could go on.

 

[JB1975]

It really doesn't matter what observations we make about Indigenous people as 'broken'.

Against a subjective term, there is a tragic range of more objective measures which tell us that Indigenous peoples suffer a lower standard of living than other Australians.

Suicide. Poor health outcomes (including considerably lower life expectancy). Disproportionately higher rates of incarceration (and stubbornly high rates of deaths in custody). Low education. Violence and domestic violence and sexual violence. Unemployment.

Conservatives and tabloid halfwits point to the Alice as if it just happened, and as if it's an isolated case, both of which could not be further from the truth.

The notion that colonisation was something which happened a long time ago is also offensively far from the truth. The effects of displacement are still with us.

The Voice might be helpful. I tend to think so and I'll vote 'yes'. Any forum in which Indigenous people get to speak directly to the Parliament about their communities must be more helpful than the sort of ignorant and flagrantly racist prattle we see on threads like this.

 

[Drought Break]

Who would like to see Ronnie and Gouki in the ring?

I would have my money on Ron

 

[DinoSoar]

Thread closed, enough is enough.