NFL Relocations and League Expansion

[Exe Gesis]

I think they'll want to have two NorCal teams and two SoCal teams.
Why I think Chargers will remain in SD even tho it's a fickle fan base, and they'll relocate another team to St Louis, and St Louis will return to LA.

 

[Keys]

It doesnt cross them off the list.

As a raiders fan that doesn't live in Oakland how do you feel about the possibility of them moving back to LA. I'm a casual fan of the nfl at best and even though the raiders were in LA when I first started following the nfl it always seemed to me that the raiders were a better fit in Oakland

 

[Exe Gesis]

Prefer them in Oakland. I've been a fan of them in both cities tho, team for life.

Them leaving the first time affected Bay Area fans. The Niners were garbage at the time, they proceeded to win a gaggle of Lombardi's and many fans converted to Niners fans. The hoodlum reputation of the Raiders grew in LA. Oakland and parts there, Alameda, Richmond, etc, are just as bad if not worse and harder.

Mark Davis has ties in LA, supports the Clippers. So it's feasible going back there. But with the Niners moving to Santa Clara, and other Bay Area sports teams heading there and San Jose, where the demographics and economies are better, it's all about the dollars, a team in Oakland is important to maintain still. True blue collar team us-against-them. NorCal is a very rich football region still. With the NFL needing still small market teams like Green Bay and Buffalo, Oakland has a place and can survive in the NFL landscape.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121221/CITYANDREGION/121229867/1004

The Buffalo Bills are staying.

State, county and team negotiators have struck a final deal on a 10-year lease with a hefty relocation penalty if the Bills leave – to keep the Bills from delivering an economic and psychological blow to Western New York by shipping out to another city........a $400 million penalty if the team leaves Buffalo before 2023 with the exception that, after the seventh year, the team would pay only $29 million. After that year, the penalty would go back to $400 million.

This is great news for the short term, and if Ralph dies soon(he's 94) it'll probably be more likely that someone local would buy the team, instead of an LA guy waiting around 7 years in Buffalo before he can move the team to LA. But the bottom line is that I think this firmly crosses the Bills off the LA list, which leaves the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers as the only teams that have any shot at ending up in LA. I'm realistic though, and I never thought that LA was an option for the Bills, and that Toronto is the city that Bills fans have to worry about.

Anyways, the Bills will be in Buffalo through at least 2020, by which time I'm sure Los Angeles will have one or two teams.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Not completely up to date, but you can see why there's an East Coast bias.

All talk of moving West Coast teams to LA, instead of moving more East Coast teams to the mid-west and west coast.

 

[drd23]

Its missing Houston, so there's at least one non-East Coast team that should be on there that isn't

And you also need to take into account the population of each area and the strength of college football (particularly in the Mid West). The mid-NW (Dakotas, Wyoming, Idaho etc) don't have the population. Areas like Nebraska, Iowa, Oklahoma etc are such strong college states that professional football might struggle to maintain a consistently large fan base (much like a lot of the southern states esp Florida)

 

[Exe Gesis]

West Coast population is still significant. Look at the density of East Coast teams.

You could have an NFL team in Portland, Oakland, Santa Clara (49ers), San Jose, Las Vegas, two in Los Angeles, and one San Diego.

Florida can not have less than three teams. Three is right. Upper Florida (jacksonville/gainesville), mid (tampa), and south (miami).

Texas should have a third (san antonio).

The mid-west should/could field a few more.

Not saying open a 60 team NFL. But that relocations shouldn't just be thought of moving a west coast team to another west coast location. But east coast to west coast.

 

[juddy_Like]

I struggle to find a decent argument for why Upper Florida (jaguars) should have a team.

 

[BomberWatson]

I struggle to find a decent argument for why Upper Florida (jaguars) should have a team.

To be fair though, the Bucs & Dolphins don't draw well either. In fact, I don't think there's any pro sports team in Florida not named the Miami Heat that does draw well (and even then, they've got a star studded team, so they better damn well be drawing well). The southern states just aren't as into pro sports as the north, it's more collegiate down there. Also doesn't help that states like Florida are full of retirees that aren't exactly the target market for a pro sports team.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Ross says AEG bid doesn’t reflect intent to move Dolphins

With Dolphins owner Stephen Ross wanting to transform his team into the Lakers of the NFL, Dolphins fans now have reason to fret about Ross moving his team to the Lakers’ neighborhood.

According to Dave Hyde of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Ross has made a bid on AEG, the company intent on building a new pro football stadium in Los Angeles. The development is creating concern that, if Ross isn’t able to persuade the local authorities in South Florida to help finance improvements to Sun Life Stadium, Ross could move the Dolphins to L.A.

“I have no interest at all in moving the Dolphins,” Ross told Hyde in an email, explaining that the effort to buy AEG is “strictly advancing our real estate, sports, entertainment and technology business.”

Still, there’s something odd about an owner of one NFL team trying to buy a company that wants to build a stadium that relies on an NFL team moving to L.A. in order to play there. But Ross, like Panthers owner Jerry Richardson, would be abandoning a stadium Ross currently owns.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Lol.

I was just watching the movie Romeo Must Die, Jet Li kung fu movie, and there’s a scene in a barber where a news report comes on in the tv in the barbershop, an ESPN breaking news media report talks about how the NFL has just awarded Oakland with a new expansion team.

Then the barber and his client talk about how it’s a surprise considering the Raiders left Oakland TWICE to LA. And wondering what they'll call the new team.

Not impossible.

 

[Broken]

It would be hard to bring in a new team now, but as the NFL is so interested in having a team in the NFL, could they 'float' a team (i.e. get people to buy shares in the team) to get enough revenue to get a team/stadium operation. Then appoint people to take key roles until those buying shares in the team are in a position to do it themselves.

I'm not sure if this can happen within the current NFL and owner infrastructure but I'm curious anyone knows if a situation like that can happen, or could have happened.

 

[Exe Gesis]

The NFL outlawed the practice of publicly floating an NFL franchise. The Packers had already been by that time, so they couldn't alter that.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: Raiders

The team moving to LA? Gimme a break.

The Raiders are staying in Oakland. They want to stay, the City of Oakland wants them to stay, and the NFL wants them to stay! The plan is called Coliseum City. It will be similar to LA Live and the Raiders will be the first anchor tenant. What proof do we have that this is more likely than not going to happen?

Proof #1

1)The Raiders are buying up properties adjacent to the current Coliseum so that the new stadium can be built at the current site. Geniuses, large business and corporations begin buying up properties in a certain area because they intend to start building projects of their own at that location.

Levi Damien reports:

“The work the Raiders have been doing tell of a team determined to stay in Oakland. And with the fans on board, they can do it.

Not only does the team want to stay in Oakland, they want the stadium to stay right where it is.

“The current site is the focus,” said Trask. “Our hope, our desire is a new stadium at that site.” She cites the accessibility to transportation services as the primary reason for this. The 880 Freeway, BART train, Amtrak, and the soon-to-be finished AirBART express to the Oakland International Airport (which is also right up the street) are all extremely important reasons for keeping the Coliseum at its current location.

The Raiders are not simply waiting until the lease is up to see what happens either. They continue to buy up local businesses so they can follow through with the plans which were put in place last year around this time.”

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/...rking-to-ensure-new-coliseum-in-existing-site

Proof #2

The City of Oakland and the Raiders are working TOGETHER to build a new stadium on the current site. Yes folks, you read it correctly…TOGETHER! The City of Oakland is not hiding from the Raiders or vice versa. They are working together to make Coliseum City a reality.

The City of Oakland has just spent 1 million dollars to draw up stadium proposals for Coliseum City with the Raiders being the anchor tenant. And the Raiders HELPED FOOT THE BILL! Yeah that’s what corporations and businesses do when they are trying to leave town right?

Paul Rosynsky, Oakland Tribune reports:

“Dubbed “Coliseum City,” the proposal calls for a construction of an entertainment and sports district on the 1,000 acres of land where the O.co Coliseum and Oracle Arena now stand.

The project models itself after the vibrant L.A. Live development in downtown Los Angeles anchored by Staples Arena that houses three professional sports teams. The development also has several entertainment options including a theater, restaurants and bars.”

http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaki...rity-study-plans-new-oakland-raiders-football

Are talks looking promising…

Again Levi Damien reports:

“The team will meet with city officials next week to discuss the status of the new stadium proposal.”

The Raiders are staying in Oakland…

Proof #3

The NFL WANTS THE RAIDERS TO STAY IN OAKLAND AND HAS MONEY AVAILABLE TO ASSIST.

Commissioner Goodell said clearly that the NFL has 200 million to assist the Raiders with a new stadium in OAKLAND.

“NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said Thursday the league is willing to contribute funding to help build a stadium in Oakland to keep the Raiders in town.

The NFL already contributed $200 million to help fund a new stadium for the San Francisco 49ers in Santa Clara. Goodell said the league also would be able to fund a stadium for the Raiders if a deal was reached.

There has been speculation the Raiders could move back to Los Angeles if they don’t get their stadium situation resolved in the Bay Area. Goodell said there is nothing new on moving a team to Los Angeles, and it would take a three-quarters league vote for it to happen.”

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...l-nfl-would-help-fund-oakland-raiders-stadium

 

[krisholio14]

To be fair though, the Bucs & Dolphins don't draw well either. In fact, I don't think there's any pro sports team in Florida not named the Miami Heat that does draw well (and even then, they've got a star studded team, so they better damn well be drawing well). The southern states just aren't as into pro sports as the north, it's more collegiate down there. Also doesn't help that states like Florida are full of retirees that aren't exactly the target market for a pro sports team.

With all due respects, when you haven't played in a SB for nearly 30 years, or won one for 40, it's hard to expect the fans to be flocking in their droves, especially in a place like Miami where there's plenty of better things to do than watch a team mess things up year after year.

Hell we haven't even made an AFC championship game since the Marino days.

Having said that I think we'll be staying.

 

[Exe Gesis]

St. Louis official says “take a deep breath” regarding possible Rams move

With the Rams scoring a major victory in the recently-concluded arbitration aimed at determining what it will take to make the Edward Jones Dome a first-tier stadium, the Rams have the clear upper hand.

And the powers-that-be in St. Louis know it.

But the best they can do is point out the fact that, if the team ultimately moves, it can’t happen for two more seasons.

“To be honest, everybody ought to take a deep breath,” St. Louis County policy wonk Mike Jones told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “The reality is nothing really happens before the 2015 season.”

That’s fine, but if the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission decides not to give the Rams the upgrades to which the arbitrators decided the Rams are contractually entitled, then the Rams can leave after the 2014 season. Or in any year thereafter.

The CVC has 60 days to decide whether to do what the arbitrators have ordered. But it sounds like the CVC won’t do what the arbitrators have decided the CVC must do to prevent the Rams from becoming free agents.

“The options are all theirs. Not ours,” CVC president Kathleen “Kitty” Ratcliffe said. “There is no specific plan at this point.”

In other words, the CVC won’t be providing the upgrades. Instead, they’ll commence shifting blame for the eventual relocation.

“[The arbitrators] did us a favor with that ruling,” Jones explained. “Now the community can have a broader conversation about the Rams. And the CVC is not the tip of the spear for that conversation.”

Actually, the CVC is the tip of the spear. Because the CVC negotiated the lease that, after the 2014 season, the Rams can disregard.

And a real “favor” from the arbitration panel would have been issuing a ruling that the CVC’s $120 million plan for upgrading the stadium was the right one. Because then the Rams wouldn’t have been able to leave.

Now, they are.

When the silver lining is “Well, we have them for two more years,” it’s like saying the glass is five percent full.

 

[Exe Gesis]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/breaking-news/ci_22623146/nfl-wont-guarantee-money-raiders-stadium

Latest news on the stadium

While business leaders are eager to hold on to the A’s and their 81 home games — preferably in a new waterfront stadium near Jack London Square — the team’s ownership has no interest in sticking around.

“Just to be frank, Lew Wolff won’t talk to us,” Blackwell told Monday’s gathering, which was sponsored by the fan group Save Oakland Sports.

Reached Tuesday, Wolff said the team had already looked at all the potential stadium sites in Oakland and couldn’t make any of them work financially.

The Raiders want to stay, but haven’t had business leaders rally to their side. And with just 10 home games a season, the club is hardly the ideal primary tenant for an entertainment center that needs to be buzzing most nights of the week.

Earlier this month, the Raiders announced that they would tarp over about 10,000 seats to help induce sellout crowds.

The trouble when it comes to keeping the Raiders is that the only proven model for limiting public funding of NFL stadiums that now cost $1 billion is for fans and businesses to pay top dollar for luxury suites and the right merely to purchase season tickets.

 

[Exe Gesis]

speculation on local radio said the holmgren deal was about attracting venture capitalist for the raiders and a new stadium.

holmgren has strong ties in the silcon valley from the niner super bowl days, and major influence on two very well known vc’s in particular. nameley brent jones and steve young.

locals will remember hearing their names before with regards to investment groups and trying to buy teams and so on.
very interesting

I think it's to no avail. Raiders are destined for LA imo. Oakland is gassed out. Other pro sports teams from the Bay Area are heading to San Jose/etc. Not enough justification then for the city to hold onto the Raiders via "Coliseum City" without other pro teams to play there.

Its all about those books. Meddlesome Mark probably wants to sell the team or at least field offers.
There is a certain number it has to sell for in order for Mark to live the way he wishes.
**********
This has a grain of truth in it. Not sure where Holmgren improves the bottom line. But I’m sure that the inheritance baby is looking at his net worth tied up in corporation/business that he does not want and is bored with. He’s got better things to do with his life like go and be pampered and retire with real liquid assets. Mark’s not liquid, and as much as he’s worth, that’s a scary position to be in when you don’t know how to recover from losing wealth. I tell you guys the truth, he’s probably scared sh!tless worrying about the perceived value of the Raiders franchise. He probably never had to worry about anything in his life, and now he has to worry. It’s his worst nightmare, of course he wants to parachute out and live the life again like he did before his old man passed.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Plans to Build Downtown LA NFL Stadium Reportedly Not Likely to Happen

By Justin Onslow(Featured Columnist) on March 5, 2013

Los Angeles may have to wait a little longer for a chance at an NFL team.

According to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, the NFL has all but officially eliminated AEG’s proposal for a stadium in downtown Los Angeles:

Less than six months after the L.A. city council voted unanimously to support AEG’s plan, the concept is essentially dead to the NFL, according to two sources. The problems with the plan are numerous, but the most essential one is the economics.

According to Cole’s report, AEG hopes to build a football facility across from the Staples Center, but the cost of such an undertaking would be in the vicinity of $1.8 billion. The NFL believes that figure would make the numbers “unworkable,” according to the league source he quotes.

The NFL is still open to AEG’s plans to build a complex for an NFL team in Los Angeles, though. It just seems the company will have to find a way to make the project more financially sound.

Another limitation for such a project is the inadequate space in which to build a stadium in the area. According to Cole, the league has been entertaining the idea of the project for some time, but the “cramped conditions” that close to the Staples Center would make adding a football facility a difficult task.

Last September, Los Angeles city council approved a potential stadium project with a unanimous vote. Despite the city’s eagerness to bring an NFL team back to Los Angeles—and the league’s reported interest—no real progress has been made (per Cole).

In July, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell sent a memo to the league outlining stipulations for relocation to Los Angeles. In the memo, he also stated his desire for any new facility in Los Angeles to be able to house two franchises (per ESPN).

Los Angeles hasn’t hosted an NFL team since 1995 when the Rams and Raiders relocated. The interest to bring back another franchise is present, but the circumstances aren’t right—at least not right now.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Sam Farmer ‏@LATimesfarmer
AEG non-sale is bad news for Farmers Field and NFL in L.A. http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-aeg-nfl-in-la-20130314,0,1108359.story …

 

[Exe Gesis]

NFL chief marketing officer Mark Waller shares his thoughts on European expansion

Could the NFL really have a team based overseas? There are still hurdles to overcome, but having an international CMO is a good start to a plan that could happen sooner than you think.

Roger Goodell wants to see NFL revenue hit $25 billion by 2027. For that to happen, the league has to explore ideas for new sources of income. Raking in an estimated $10 billion in 2012, the NFL is far and away the most popular and lucrative sport in America. The league considers international expansion to be one of its best sources of untapped wealth and an important part of hitting that lofty target.


The NFL has slowly tried to make its game a familiarity overseas, so when the time came, a team in Europe wouldn't seem so foreign (every pun intended). This started with the American Bowl, a series of preseason exhibition games held across Europe, as well as Japan, Canada and Mexico, where in 1994, the largest crowd in NFL history (112,376) attended a game between the Dallas Cowboys and Houston Oilers. There was also the unsuccessful attempt to implement a league abroad, NFL Europe, which operated from 1991 until 2007 when the NFL announced a shift in international strategy to focus on presenting regular-season games at international locations. But just as important as the NFL teaching Europe about their game, was the NFL learning more about Europe -- the culture, economy, demographics of their potential new stomping grounds.

Enter Mark Waller.

I recently had the opportunity to participate in the Sports Events Marketing Experience at Nationals Park, in D.C., as a member of the social media team from Georgetown University. My role was to interview the numerous executives from varying leagues, companies and teams, but the man I really wanted to talk to was Waller.

Like myself, Mr. Waller is a Brit, so I was excited to speak with someone who had become so successful and achieved such a prominent position in the American sports industry. One could be forgiven, as I was, to be shocked to hear that an Englishman was the chief marketing officer of America's most popular sport. But when you consider what the NFL is trying to do overseas, coupled with Waller's background, the reasoning becomes apparent.

A crucial aspect of Waller's career progression to the NFL is his extensive international experience, something that was surely not overlooked by the NFL. Graduating from Durham University in England, one of the top schools after Oxford and Cambridge, Waller started a 25-year international career that took him from the U.K. to Greece, Spain, the Canary Islands and eventually the United States. Some of his duties with the NFL include overseeing the league's international activities, as well as developing the league's long-term fan development and brand strategy.


Every preseason and regular season game that has been hosted at Wembley Stadium in London has sold out.

If a team were to move overseas, the most obvious destination would be London. With Waller's business experience and upbringing in the U.K, his role and input would surely be vital. Perhaps he even had an idea which team the NFL was looking to move? Unfortunately for the sports junkie within me, Waller did not provide anything close to resembling a hint as to which team that might be.

Waller was quick to point out that every preseason and regular season game that has been hosted at Wembley Stadium in London has sold out, including the two scheduled for the 2013-14 season, the Steelers and Vikings playing on Sept. 29, followed by the 49ers and Jaguars on Oct. 27. Taking these sellouts as a clear indication of the popularity of the NFL in Europe, Waller said that the impetus for having a team based overseas was clearly there. His comments closely followed Goodell's, who addressed the topic at his pre-Super Bowl press conference in New Orleans earlier this year:

"I think the message is very clear. We've got passionate fans that love the NFL in the UK. We're always asking what is the next step after two games," said Goodell. "Do we move to three, do we try something else? How do we continue to celebrate the growth of the game in the UK? But I think from the positive reaction from the fans, that our ownership understands that this is a market in which we need to be more active."​

How could the NFL compete with the Premier League? The iconic and most recognized soccer league in the world has a cult following in England, television rights worth $4.5 billion, and is home to the world's richest sports team, Manchester United. In London alone there are currently five Premier League teams, each having games on either a Saturday, Sunday, or once during the week (more if they are involved in European competition). How could a new team break into this market, sell tickets, and generate fan loyalty?

There is no doubt that to compete with the Premier League would be a monumental task, one that I believe could never be achieved. The NFL still has no reliable external estimates for potential revenue overseas. However, as Waller pointed out, the popularity for the NFL in England and Europe has clearly grown.

Having a new team in London would certainly be a commodity and provide a new experience for sports fans across Europe. In this sense, I do believe that the NFL is on to something, but the basic questions of which team would move and when are still very much up in the air. For now, Europe isn't going anywhere. The NFL may very well be.

 

[BomberWatson]

There's only one country outside of the U.S. that could feasibly host an NFL team, and that's Canada. CFL may be a roadblock in that eventuating though.

 

[Chadwiko]

There's only one country outside of the U.S. that could feasibly host an NFL team, and that's Canada. CFL may be a roadblock in that eventuating though.

In the short term, yeah.

 

[Dirty Bird]

There's only one country outside of the U.S. that could feasibly host an NFL team, and that's Canada. CFL may be a roadblock in that eventuating though.

Mexico might be a viable option.
They did get 103k to a game in 2005.
If they recommence that series it might be a shot.
See if it can retain interest.
If it can, set up a team.

Europe I can't ever see happening in my life time, and if it does, it'll struggle.
I might be able to deal with a European division and go London, Frankfurt, Munich and Paris or something. But just 1 team based there? Fans would have no rivalries really, would be shit house.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Mexico, Canada, USA, UK...all closest to mainland USA.
Teams fly from West Coast to East Coast and near Canadian border to near Mexican border often to play current NFL teams.
So imo 'at most' UK having a team is do-able, but not necessarily a good idea.
The better step is incorporating Canada/CFL into the NFL also a single version of 'football', and having a team in Mexico or two.
The end-goal is the owners themselves being greedy businessmen wanting $20B revenue instead of $12B
Ok, fine, aim for that, but ensure it's realistic and can be long-term, has a grassroots (canada/mexico > uk)