Ross "boring" Lyon

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Memories

Memories

Premiership Player
Feb 27, 2007
4,433
243
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
My fears last year when we recruited him was that he would make Freo unwatchable. He is currently in the process of doing this.

At the Aurora game today people in the crowd were audibly frustrated at the flooding and the fact that Buddy and Cyril were always "crowded". Now you can say it is "great defense" to clog their backline and make them unable to score. Well we did that today and it failed to stop them scoring. They had 40 inside 50s in the first half.

The people who paid money to go to this game and the people watching it at home were treated to an ugly and boring game on the way to the massive Freo loss. So please tell me why exactly we played this way when it didn't stop them scoring and it made AFL boring?

If we are going to get whooped by 60 points at least for the love of god make the game interesting to watch! AT no point during the day did Ross Lyon stop flooding. Even when we were losing, the failing game plan stayed the same.

The massive flood employed by Ross Lyon is a dying tactic, the better teams have better kicks and fast players to bust open the flood. We are stuck with a Ross Lyon gameplan formed around 2005 that is on it's way out. Start getting a new idea of how to win Ross because not only are you not going to get us to a grand final with your dying gameplan you will make sure no one turns on the TV to watch Freo.
 
To a certain extent we are thinking the same thing. Yet in todays game the reason we lost was because our players were soft and gutless and Hawthorn were hungry. The coach and game plan should be blamed when you have a great list but when you have an average list it is easy to point the finger at the coach. You can't blame Ross for our forward line being pathetic and our recruitment in the 2001 draft (the draft that has defined all the best clubs player lists) being non existent. At least we have had lots of scoring opportunities given our midfield and forward lines are substandard.

Ross hasn't got a lot to work with.
 

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Game plan is one thing, execution is another.

You will note that at least in the absence of players showing up to play, Ross will change things up and try something different (Mundy and Hill to the HB line). This is something that previous coaches at Freo had neither the skill or balls to do.

Freo didn't turn up today, plain and simple especially in the middle of the park and very reminiscent of the GC game.

We are 5-3 after 8 games having lost to 3 of last year's finalists, 2 games where we couldn't kick straight and 1 where we didn't show up. What was your prediction for the first 8 rounds Memories?
 
Must confess I didn't get to watch all of the game today.

My general impression over the last few weeks, a flooding style of game encourages the opposition to do the same to us. But we are much more vulnerable to it, sometimes it harms us and our ability to score goals more than it hurts the opposition.

Not sure if I've worded that right, hopefully you can understand what I'm getting at.
 
I agree the players we have are generally soft and lose focus. I could see the players today pretty much running around on auto-pilot, thinking that is enough. And this stems from some of our best players like Sandi, who when "on" is a great ruckman, but does give this impression like he doesn't want to be out there a lot of the time. I could almost see our players do the typical "I'm checking in for my job" routine as they ran out with blank looks on their faces.

But anyway I'm not saying our list is A grade, what I'm saying is Ross Lyon is killing the "watchability" of Freo, and not just for Freo fans but whoever plays us. The Hawks easily won today, but I can tell you with 100% certainty many of those good folks left that game thinking "I paid money to watch this?" . People were talking about falling asleep and having conversations about anything else other than the game.

This is not a good sign for the AFL, and more to the point us Freo fans that have to watch 22+ games of this a season. The blind people who don't care about anything other than wins.... you don't even need to watch the game to know if we won or not. So I'm guessing many of you don't watch the game. For those of us that do like watching football how about you let us get a little entertainment?
 
I couldn't watch us last year, I'd much rather watch under Lyon.

We were always going to have a game like today in the first part of the season, new coach and new game plan.

The good thing is it happened in Tasmania and we can make everyone forget about it against the Eagles.
 
If i were a neutral, I would have been annoyed that buddy and cyril were crowded out and weren't as spectacular as they could be. While it was ugly, I do think that it would have been uglier from through my purple goggles if we had lost by 100+ points (it could have happened!) with Buddy and Cyril playing beautiful footy, and kicking zillions of goals. I'm praying that this is all part of the process (or is that a 2010 term?). And eventually the other parts of the puzzle will settle, and the game will be less ugly - maybe even exciting!
I know people talk about ugly st kilda games, but i seem to remember them playing spectacular footy at times. Fingers crossed that that is our trajectory :(
 
Purplrrr said:
If i were a neutral, I would have been annoyed that buddy and cyril were crowded out and weren't as spectacular as they could be.
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This is a good point though, people pay money to go to the game and watch players like those you mentioned do the things they do. If you tied their shoe laces up prior to the game and said "do your best" it's pretty much the same as the flood I saw.

I seriously think the AFL need to step in with some rules about it because it is killing the spectacle that is the game. I'm not using the word kill lightly, it is seriously killing the entertainment in games. And many people suspect the afl are going to move to change this which means ross lyons gameplan is dead.

Purplrrr said:
While it was ugly, I do think that it would have been uglier from through my purple goggles if we had lost by 100+ points (it could have happened!) with Buddy and Cyril playing beautiful footy, and kicking zillions of goals. I'm praying that this is all part of the process (or is that a 2010 term?). And eventually the other parts of the puzzle will settle, and the game will be less ugly - maybe even exciting!
I know people talk about ugly st kilda games, but i seem to remember them playing spectacular footy at times. Fingers crossed that that is our trajectory :(
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If the player we chose to put on Buddy isn't good enough to beat him or let him get 10 goals then so be it. People watch the game to see players competing. Remember Jakovich and Carey duals that were beat up in the media? McPharlin is good enough to restrict Buddy to a minor output whilst not completely making the game boring as can be. If Buddy beats McPharlin it's interesting, if McPharlin beats Buddy it's interesting. Either way it's many times more interesting than "flock of seagulls fly to the football crumb, random foot hits the ball GOAAAAALLLLLL. Let's go to the video replay to dissect the scrum".
 
Must admit I'm finding it difficult to sit through our games. While Lyon brings alot of positive things to the club, that boring gamestyle isn't one of them. I want to see our players taking on the game and backing their ability to win the contest. Not constantly having a defensive mindset.
 

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Admiral Byng said:
My general impression over the last few weeks, a flooding style of game .
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This is the problem ,and I think Ross has made this point himself, that the team defense thing has too often turned into a flood because the midfield are folding back on the defence rather than doing their job and exerting the pressure in the midfield where they belong.
It was terrible today but I don't think its a deliberate tactic, if you believe Ross he wants the pressure exerted further up the ground
 
hasto said:
you just watch, even if Fremantle scrap into the 8 this year, there will be a major drop off in memberships. no one wants to pay money to see a game where they'd rather be doing something else because its ****ing terrible to watch, regardless if your win it.
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The sad thing is it affects the teams that have to play us also. Many of the hawks fans at the aurora game today were bored out of their skulls and yet their team was demolishing Freo!

When we used to play the Saints or the Saints were on a Friday night I just knew the game was going to be a bore fest and it usually turned out this way. Even when the Saints kicked 25 goals to the other sides 10 they flooded the entire game making it an ugly scrimmage. Most of their scores involved the "Fast break" out of defense with Milne or Schneider running alone into their forward half and dribbling the ball through. Exciting stuff Ross Lyon!

With a team that has Hill, Fyfe, Pavlich, McPharlin, Sandilands we have players people would pay to see if they weren't being involved in a game of seagulls.
 
hasto said:
call me a turncoat or whatever, not fussed. have a look at my posts, had been on here since 2003 as a dockers fan.

was an eagles supporter until freo joined the league (grew up in Sth Fremantle). rejoined them the day after appointment of Lyon and now in the wings member.

quit being a supporter with the appointment of Ross Lyon. I agreed with the sacking of Harvey, but not Lyon. I said to family, friends that he would ruin the spectacle of watching Fremantle play. proven correct.

you just watch, even if Fremantle scrap into the 8 this year, there will be a major drop off in memberships. no one wants to pay money to see a game where they'd rather be doing something else because its ****ing terrible to watch, regardless if your win it.
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Proven correct - what a load of crap.

Every loss is the end of the world and Mems I can take ...but a traitorous 'supporter' justifying flipping ....shhhhhheeeeeeet please.

I'd watch the tripe we served up today over the clueless efforts last time we played the Hawks at Subi.

Lyon gets time and I don't give a toss if we win 1-0, Lyons brand gets at least a season before you all carry on and complain about your period pain.
 
Memories said:
The sad thing is it affects the teams that have to play us also. Many of the hawks fans at the aurora game today were bored out of their skulls and yet their team was demolishing Freo!

When we used to play the Saints or the Saints were on a Friday night I just knew the game was going to be a bore fest and it usually turned out this way. Even when the Saints kicked 25 goals to the other sides 10 they flooded the entire game making it an ugly scrimmage. Most of their scores involved the "Fast break" out of defense with Milne or Schneider running alone into their forward half and dribbling the ball through. Exciting stuff Ross Lyon!

With a team that has Hill, Fyfe, Pavlich, McPharlin, Sandilands we have players people would pay to see if they weren't being involved in a game of seagulls.
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Seriously the opposition fans were bored would be right up there with my fear of being attacked and r*ped by a rogue donkey.

Mems - don't like it ....go and join the Eagles and boneup watching Nic Nat
 
Moo said:
Proven correct - what a load of crap.

Every loss is the end of the world and Mems I can take ...but a traitorous 'supporter' justifying flipping ....shhhhhheeeeeeet please.

I'd watch the tripe we served up today over the clueless efforts last time we played the Hawks at Subi.

Lyon gets time and I don't give a toss if we win 1-0, Lyons brand gets at least a season before you all carry on and complain about your period pain.
Click to expand...

Justifying winning at all costs when it's going to result in less people supporting Freo is kinda short term thinking. Without supporters and people interested in watching Freo we won't be able to afford all the technology, coaches, etc that is required to be an elite AFL team. We'll be a north melbourne, a team never able to afford the best so doing weights with concrete blocks and such.

Supporting an AFL team isn't purely about getting wins. Many people became hawks supporters purely because of Buddy Franklin. One guy doing what he does made people spend money. One guy (ross lyon) doing what he does makes Buddy unable to do that resulting in less interest and less money.

The only reason AFL is the #1 sport in the country is because it *WAS* the most entertaining sport and if games like Ross Lyon is producing become the norm it quickly won't be. I find it hard to fathom supporters here who don't seem to care if the game was had a 0-1 scoreline as long as it's in favor of us. They'd probably be screaming about "how tight the contest was" just completely ignoring the fact australian rules football is supposed to have many shots on goal and that fast flowing, high jumping, long kicking, accurate kicking and big tackling games is what made people love the game.

I want to support an entertaining football team, and if they can win whilst being entertaining then I'm even happier. But if I can't watch what they are producing then I won't and hence my money, my support will quickly go. As will thousands of other people and tens of thousands neutrals from watching the game.

I have always cared more for aussie rules football than any one particular team. I enjoy the game, I support Freo for a variety of personal reasons but that can change at any time if what Freo produce is rubbish. And it's quickly becoming that. In the past when we were a rubbish team I could at least watch and see how the younger players were coming along. I could see a young Palmer carve it up, Barlow doing his thing, Pavlich in 2001-2002, Modra, etc There was always something we could watch. Right now I'm looking at something resembling soccer and rugby, both sports that are boring to me and I'm wondering why the hell am I watching this crap every week?

As can be seen here in this thread, in other threads on this forum and out in the real world, many people agree with me. Long time freo supporters are questioning why the hell they are watching the crap they are seeing. Think about it.
 
hasto said:
call me a turncoat or whatever, not fussed. have a look at my posts, had been on here since 2003 as a dockers fan.

was an eagles supporter until freo joined the league (grew up in Sth Fremantle). rejoined them the day after appointment of Lyon and now in the wings member.

quit being a supporter with the appointment of Ross Lyon. I agreed with the sacking of Harvey, but not Lyon. I said to family, friends that he would ruin the spectacle of watching Fremantle play. proven correct.

you just watch, even if Fremantle scrap into the 8 this year, there will be a major drop off in memberships. no one wants to pay money to see a game where they'd rather be doing something else because its ****ing terrible to watch, regardless if your win it.
Click to expand...

Your type suits the eagles better anyway.
 
Memories has a fair point. We're down on home attendances from 2010 in two consecutive years. Not really a great result for a CEO with a marketing background.

I found it really hard to watch today and kept flicking over to the Port match. It wasn't just the scoreline but the near complete lack of creativity.
 
Clay Davis said:
I found it really hard to watch today and kept flicking over to the Port match. It wasn't just the scoreline but the near complete lack of creativity.
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Yes exactly. I don't think it's about goals scored just the "creativity" if that's what you want to call it. Players on both sides just seem frustrated/bored and hence don't seem to do much outside of the "soldier" stuff, run to contest, try to win ball with 30 others, repeat for 3 hours.
 
Moo said:
Does the 11k for the GC game factor into this?
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I guess so. One thing to look at is our game against Geelong, in 2011 it got 37K people to it, in 2012 it got 34K . In 2012 they were the reigning premiers so you would think there would be more buildup to it.
 
By creativity I mean this:

[youtube]x717L8lw9Dg[/youtube]

Not the toe poke from Scarlett, but Johnson's decision to go into the corridor. Had it not worked out, St Kilda probably would have scored. But Johnson took the creative risk to win them the game.
 

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