Autopsy Round 1, 2023: Positives and Negatives vs North Melbourne

[ziad]

You would think so, but don't hold your breath. We have long been useless at groundball because under Simpsons tenure (aside from Nic) we really have nobody that hurts the ball (or, is seemingly instructed to hunt it)
Rather, when the ball hits the deck and is in dispute everyone (from what I can tell) either tries to position themselves as the outlet runner without bothering to look at getting the football, or, stays on the outside to try to effect a turnover from the opposition's disposal. Which works ok against the lesser teams, but fails badly against teams with elite contested ball movement
It's been going on for a long time, and it's never been remedied

The only hope is we send in guys like Culley, Ginbey and Hewitt to play their natural contested game and hunt the football before it's coached out of them

having to learn to (this means they doint now but need to) - survival is not compulsory

 

[TheNewAnchor]

The monster contract they gave him was totally unnecessary and is now an albatross around our necks. I suppose their argument was they were locking him in. But contracts with coaches are not worth very much from the club's POV. Coaches very rarely voluntarily leave clubs. Just as a starting point they would need a firm offer of another senior coaching job at another club to even think about it. Plus they usually have a sense of camaraderie and loyalty to the playing group that keeps them attached.

It has only hapenned 3 times that i can recall. Malthouse going to Collingwood, Lyon to Freo and Thompson to Essendon. And two of those three were under contract when they left. Meaning the contract was worthless from the club's POV. Imagine if Simpson went to the WCE Board last year and said he had a 5 year offer from North and he felt he needed a change of scenary or the players were tired of his voice or whatever and he wanted to take the North job and leave because his heart wasn't in it as far as being WCE coach anymore. Do you think the club would say "No, you are under contract, we demand that you stay and go through the motions and put in a half hearted effort at your job"? If he wanted to go we would have to let him go because the alternative would be having somebody in a senior position at the club who didn't want to be there and putting in less than 100%. That is the decision we had to make with Malthouse and Geelong made with Thompson. You can technically hold them to their contract but in that circumstance where they want to go then it is not in your interest to force them to stay. Players are different. It is in your interest to keep players under contract because if they want to go you can trade them and get a return, and if they are under contract the return is usually higher. But you can't trade a coach. Plus, if you hang on to a player who wants to go and he sulks and just goes through the motions you end up with one underperforming player on your list, if you hold on to a coach who doesn't want to be there then it affects the performance of the entire playing group.

My point being that long monster contracts with coaches are a stupid thing to do. Because they are very unlikely to leave voluntarily and if they do want to go then, even if they are under contract, you are going to have to let them go anyway. The only real world effect of a monster coaching contract is when the day comes when you have part ways with them (and one day you will part ways with them) the payout will be bigger. The contract extension for Simpson was dumb management. There was no upside to the club in doing this but there was considerable potential downside risk, as we are now discovering.

Another Dumpster diatribe. In short, you reckon we shouldn’t have renewed Simpson’s contract because that was a dumb move, and after one game, your worst fears have materialised, phew!. Also Dumpster, thanks for clarifying the differences and vagaries around player and coach contractual risks…..who would have thunk!

Simpson may well finish his time with WC sooner rather than later, but you want to boot him after one game? Sure we lost to NM and played some piss poor footy, but we had a handful of players returning from long term injuries and a bunch of kids playing their first game of AFL. We played the young fellas and almost fell over the line and you’re carrying on like a pork chop. Can’t you at least wait until round 9/10 before you take a blowtorch to the coach and everything WCE.

 

[Ghossein]

Positives:

• Ginbey looking like a 50 game player already
• Long the cleanest prospect we've had for a while
• Barrass and Hurn their usual selves
• Shuey showing some decent form
• Gaff staying out of the centre, played well
• Jones continuing on his good form from 2022
• Hunt impressive

Negatives:

• Witherden played like Witherden
• Williams played like Williams
• XON should really be hitting his prime by now
• Chesser not being the absolutely elite midfielder the club talked him up to be (note: not a criticism of the young man)
• McGovern a bit sloppy but can hopefully find form
• Allen's miss (we forgive you)
• A fade-out cost us the game
• Got smashed out of the clearances to Norf
• Lost a very winnable game

 

[RedWeddingGuest]

Another Dumpster diatribe. In short, you reckon we shouldn’t have renewed Simpson’s contract because that was a dumb move, and after one game, your worst fears have materialised, phew!. Also Dumpster, thanks for clarifying the differences and vagaries around player and coach contractual risks…..who would have thunk!

Simpson may well finish his time with WC sooner rather than later, but you want to boot him after one game? Sure we lost to NM and played some piss poor footy, but we had a handful of players returning from long term injuries and a bunch of kids playing their first game of AFL. We played the young fellas and almost fell over the line and you’re carrying on like a pork chop. Can’t you at least wait until round 9/10 before you take a blowtorch to the coach and everything WCE.

I think his point might be broader than that, although you’re quite right about it being way too early to take precipitous steps (after one game). We’ve lost 25 of our last 27 games. There are plenty of reasons for that, of course, but we did look completely at sea for most of the NM game. If there was a game plan, it wasn’t an effective one. I’m optimistic (like you) that things will improve, but we’d be kidding ourselves if we didn’t acknowledge that we might be looking at a losing streak of 34 or 35 out of the last 37 games by round 10. If that’s the case, it would be a bit irresponsible for the Board to keep its head in the sand. No?

 

[Priddis Is Done]

I don't mind the Simpson long extension.

It gives stability.

So long as there is a clear transition to youth. And it can't be all at once otherwise you'll destroy the youth.

On the basis of the first game, it's reasonable.

There is a lot of aged players and deadwood to turnover on our list. It's not a quick fix.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

The other problem with our list and dearth of talent.

Witherden at a 35 list ranking, break glass type is fine.
Jamo at 37
Williams at 36
Rotham at 32
Petch at 30
Cole and duggan at 25 ish

The list goes on and on. But we're asking these players to be best 18, if we were in premiership contention, and they are average.

Waterman inconsistent, list spot 30
SPS, 40

Apologies to duggan and Cole, that's were they are to the moment. May come good.

 

[RanaNaved]

Re Chesser, I think he should be playing WAFL whilst he regains confidence in his body.

He looks like he's in self preservation mode out there. You wouldn't know he's a dynamic, explosive athlete watching him atm. Somewhat understandable given his history I guess.

 

[southcoast]

You would think so, but don't hold your breath. We have long been useless at groundball because under Simpsons tenure (aside from Nic) we really have nobody that hurts the ball (or, is seemingly instructed to hunt it)
Rather, when the ball hits the deck and is in dispute everyone (from what I can tell) either tries to position themselves as the outlet runner without bothering to look at getting the football, or, stays on the outside to try to effect a turnover from the opposition's disposal. Which works ok against the lesser teams, but fails badly against teams with elite contested ball movement
It's been going on for a long time, and it's never been remedied

The only hope is we send in guys like Culley, Ginbey and Hewitt to play their natural contested game and hunt the football before it's coached out of them

I’d add Yeo to the list of contestors - I am also of the opinion Shuey does inside and outside reasonably well.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Positives
Got thru a game without injury.
Noah Long had a good first game.
Ginbey did well for his first game loved the tackling.
Negatives
2nd quarter
Usual inability to win contests and clearances.

 

[Astro7]

You would think so, but don't hold your breath. We have long been useless at groundball because under Simpsons tenure (aside from Nic) we really have nobody that hurts the ball (or, is seemingly instructed to hunt it)
Rather, when the ball hits the deck and is in dispute everyone (from what I can tell) either tries to position themselves as the outlet runner without bothering to look at getting the football, or, stays on the outside to try to effect a turnover from the opposition's disposal. Which works ok against the lesser teams, but fails badly against teams with elite contested ball movement
It's been going on for a long time, and it's never been remedied

The only hope is we send in guys like Culley, Ginbey and Hewitt to play their natural contested game and hunt the football before it's coached out of them

So, is this Schofield coaching it out of them? Schofield has had no effect on the midfield?
Just trying to make sense of the midfield problems, given we have new players and a new midfield coach, and stoppages coach - you'd think there would be some visible changes? But some are saying it's the same old-same old, how can this be when new coaches were brought in to change it up? Perhaps one game is not enough to gauge these things yet?

 

[maverick001]

So they sack him, fine.

Then, pray tell, who do they hire that they can pay an absolute pittance to to be a senior coach so they don't excessively exceed the soft cap?

Well wait to later in the year to sack him to start with

But if we exceed the soft cap and pay a penalty so be it. In the long run keeping him on is a greater cost

We can't use prior mismanagement as an excuse to justify further mismanagement

 

[maverick001]

Easy to look like a coach at sea when we simply do not have the cattle. We need to rejuvenate the list, and bring some young talent in.

This just the normal ebb and flow of development. Bringing in a new coach isn't going to solve our problems immediately.

In the last 20 years you'd be very hard pressed to find a team performing this badly who had a core group of 10-15 players as strong as this. There's over a dozen premiership players in there, or players who were easily in the best 22 in the premiership year (Gaff and Nic Nat missing the GF obvs).

How many chances and excuses can the guy have? At some point he's got to be accountable. Otherwise this could go on forever and just continue to blame the players, circumstances etc. etc.

There's been a clear and continuing decline since the flag, and we've been very poor for a season and a half prior to this year, and it's looking every bit like continuing.

 

[maverick001]

Another Dumpster diatribe. In short, you reckon we shouldn’t have renewed Simpson’s contract because that was a dumb move, and after one game, your worst fears have materialised, phew!. Also Dumpster, thanks for clarifying the differences and vagaries around player and coach contractual risks…..who would have thunk!

Simpson may well finish his time with WC sooner rather than later, but you want to boot him after one game? Sure we lost to NM and played some piss poor footy, but we had a handful of players returning from long term injuries and a bunch of kids playing their first game of AFL. We played the young fellas and almost fell over the line and you’re carrying on like a pork chop. Can’t you at least wait until round 9/10 before you take a blowtorch to the coach and everything WCE.

One game? This has been going on a lot lot longer than that.

 

[maverick001]

Easy to look like a coach at sea when we simply do not have the cattle. We need to rejuvenate the list, and bring some young talent in.

This just the normal ebb and flow of development. Bringing in a new coach isn't going to solve our problems immediately.

I don't expect overnight resolution at all. I'm happy to do our time at/near the bottom for a few years. But I don't want our problems to get worse. I want the right coach in place who is on top of the modern game, develop our young players effectively and ultimately build a team and gameplan that grows into a top-4 side.

 

[UseR2006]

I don't expect overnight resolution at all. I'm happy to do our time at/near the bottom for a few years. But I don't want our problems to get worse. I want the right coach in place who is on top of the modern game, develop our young players effectively and ultimately build a team and gameplan that grows into a top-4 side.

How long do you think all that takes?
Do you think Simmo can do all that within one preseason?

 

[bzparkes]

How long do you think all that takes?
Do you think Simmo can do all that within one preseason?

I'm sure his critics think that can achieve this in one game...

 

[ziad]

How long do you think all that takes?
Do you think Simmo can do all that within one preseason?

I would think 2-3 seasons is a realistic time line. Dont get me wrong, we were very poor against north in periods, but being away and scratching against the Crows/showed little run or pressure against Port, I would have taken a five point loss.

 

[Goroyals22]

How long do you think all that takes?
Do you think Simmo can do all that within one preseason?

Effort doesn’t take anytime… it’s should be a given and for 90% of the past 27 games there has been none… no willingness to tackle, chase, pressure or win the hard ball…
All givens if you want to be a footballer.

 

[RookiePick]

Apologies to duggan and Cole, that's were they are to the moment. May come good.

Narrator Voice
They did not come good

 

[FKASC]

In the last 20 years you'd be very hard pressed to find a team performing this badly who had a core group of 10-15 players as strong as this. There's over a dozen premiership players in there, or players who were easily in the best 22 in the premiership year (Gaff and Nic Nat missing the GF obvs).

Exactly. The core group were involved in two grand finals and several finals campaigns, then we add an AA midfielder who almost won a Brownlow in his second season. The players are not bad - they are just not being coached or developed properly

 

[RookiePick]

Exactly. The core group were involved in two grand finals and several finals campaigns, then we add an AA midfielder who almost won a Brownlow in his second season. The players are not bad - they are just not being coached or developed properly

I have never seen a group at AFL (or even WAFL) level with less appetite for the physical side of footy. The only times we seem to get physical is when Gov blows his stack once a year and gets rubbed out for 2 weeks for striking ie completely misdirected physicality.

Our seniors should be embarrassed that Ginbey comes in and lays 12 tackles on debut. Even little Noah was getting involved in dragging some big blokes down because he showed some intent and a bit of mongrel.

We are the softest side in the league and every club knows if they bring the heat West Coast will simply nope out of the game.

 

[javaguice]

TK has a huge amount of talent and x-factor but it often feels like he can switch it off and on when he feels like it/feels the responsibility to do so.
His game vs St Kilda in 2020 when most of other mids were injured showed how good he can be as a primary mid.
There's been several other incredible efforts from him as well, so it's confusing why he doesn't bring this each week when the ability is there.

Just wait til it's a contract year. Might see his best then....

 

[javaguice]

All the same issues. How long does he get? Shat The bed in 2021, last year a write off (fair enough), this year the excuses won’t wash. Sunday is massive for the club, if we don’t win we’re 0-8 at least. The goodwill won’t last forever. Sport is about winning, once you lose sight of that you’re in big trouble. How’s the Gold Coast going after 10 years of great draft selections? Already people happy to pat ourselves on the back for a brave comeback loss against North. Standards are slipping, Simmo will go down as a club legend for 2018 and rightly so but there’s something wrong at the club right now and we’re falling behind.

It was suggested to me that the friends family stuff has made it tough for him to make big calls on players as he has closer relationships with family members than you would normally see from a coach. Worked for a while but he needs to make some tough calls

 

[The wily weagle]

Duggan is infuriating really

He has had more then enough time on our list, and on form, is really on the fringes of selection

Yet not only is he never in the selection firing line, but he filled in for Shuey as captain at the media day the other week

I get that he represents the clean cut, well spoken, boy next door captain in waiting the club seems to desperately want. But they need to take the Rose coloured glasses off and start looking at how he is playing one of these days (which is middling, at best)

 

[The wily weagle]

We are the softest side in the league and every club knows if they bring the heat West Coast will simply nope out of the game.

We are not soft, we are progressive.

Simpson and his soy latte, group hug, participation medal meditation mantras are simply ahead of the curve

It's not about winning or losing, it's about being gentleman and lovely citizens who can build the occasional house in Cambodia

Those archaic, misogynist values like tough footy or winning matches have no place at our enlightened club