Unofficial Preview Round 1, 2024: Bombers v Hawks, MCG 1:10pm Sat 16th March

[HedgeFund]

Collingwood’s forward line is quite small, would prefer DGB included in the round 1 team against Bombers to add some height to the backline. He has done enough of an apprenticeship, time to back him in.
Frost is not part of our next premiership team and should be just back up depth.

Breust also isn’t part of our next premiership team, but he gets to stay in I presume?

To suggest players like Frost, who has consistently played on deep opposition forwards in the past 4 seasons (arguably the least forgiving position in the ground) don’t get considered for Rd 1 and relegated to back up depth because…..we need to “back in” someone like DGB is silly.

Can someone remind me when we have previously played Sam Frost at Box Hill? Whenever he has been fit, he has played in our 22, usually starting in the back 6.

We just finished 16th in 2023 and have a very young list with poor defensive key depth. Can’t see why Frost doesn’t get a game unless / until there’s a second big bodied KPD (presuming Blanck is getting picked first?) who can play on a second big bodied opposition forward.

Our “system” people want to back in to get the defensive job done….generated the 3rd worst points against in the competition in 2023. We simply aren’t that good.

We should have two big one-v-one key defender against pretty much every team we play against. Blanck and Frost are the first two candidates, and neither is necessarily ahead of each other.

Scrimshaw doesn’t play on big bodies effectively and neither does DGB. Sicily is best used as a floating third intercepting defender.

 

[Roddy]

Breust also isn’t part of our next premiership team, but he gets to stay in I presume?

To suggest players like Frost, who has consistently played on deep opposition forwards in the past 4 seasons (arguably the least forgiving position in the ground) don’t get considered for Rd 1 and relegated to back up depth because…..we need to “back in” someone like DGB is silly.

Can someone remind me when we have previously played Sam Frost at Box Hill? Whenever he has been fit, he has played in our 22, usually starting in the back 6.

We just finished 16th in 2023 and have a very young list with poor defensive key depth. Can’t see why Frost doesn’t get a game unless / until there’s a second big bodied KPD (presuming Blanck is getting picked first?) who can play on a second big bodied opposition forward.

Our “system” people want to back in to get the defensive job done….generated the 3rd worst points against in the competition in 2023. We simply aren’t that good.

We should have two big one-v-one key defender against pretty much every team we play against. Blanck and Frost are the first two candidates, and neither is necessarily ahead of each other.

Scrimshaw doesn’t play on big bodies effectively and neither does DGB. Sicily is best used as a floating third intercepting defender.

If DGB is to take a big step forward and become the player we want him to be, he MUST get games under his belt. At the moment, he is way more badly needed back than forward, and while we’re developing and rebuilding and win-loss is slightly less of a priority, developing a young back is WAY more important than playing an old hack who often can’t make an effective decision.

DGB back over Frost all day for me.

 

[TylerDurden]

If DGB is to take a big step forward and become the player we want him to be, he MUST get games under his belt. At the moment, he is way more badly needed back than forward, and while we’re developing and rebuilding and win-loss is slightly less of a priority, developing a young back is WAY more important than playing an old hack who often can’t make an effective decision.

DGB back over Frost all day for me.

Agree. Time to move on from Frost. He's not taking us fwd.

 

[burner1]

Except club has been clear that in 2024 spots are earnt on merit not development. Absent injuries to others DGB has to step up a fair bit to get regular games next year. Reckon he’s been gifted games a bit to date - needs to really earn it with some dominant performances down back over preseason or at box hill.

 

[Roddy]

Agree. Time to move on from Frost. He's not taking us fwd.

The bloke is 30, we’ve had him in our colours from age 27-30, and barring some sort of freakish late-career renaissance, you can only imagine we’ve seen his absolute best.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Except club has been clear that in 2024 spots are earnt on merit not development. Absent injuries to others DGB has to step up a fair bit to get regular games next year. Reckon he’s been gifted games a bit to date - needs to really earn it with some dominant performances down back over preseason or at box hill.

Was definitely gifted games his first two years.

I don’t think it did him any good either, he was being asked to play senior AFL footy on a weekly basis when his conditioning and strength was barely VFL standards.

Whereas Weddle last year was in elite physical shape from the moment he stepped through the doors at Waverley and could adapt to the pace of AFL much quicker.

I could feel the clubs attitude to DGB subtlety change last year, I feel like they have told him the pro a toon period is over and as you say he will get picked purely in performance rather than reputation/development in 2024.

 

[HedgeFund]

If DGB is to take a big step forward and become the player we want him to be, he MUST get games under his belt. At the moment, he is way more badly needed back than forward, and while we’re developing and rebuilding and win-loss is slightly less of a priority, developing a young back is WAY more important than playing an old hack who often can’t make an effective decision.

DGB back over Frost all day for me.

They don’t play on the same opponents.

If you want to put a 87kg DGB on a 100kg AFL forward whilst Frost plays at BH - be prepared for even more whipping (both of Denver here and us on the scoreboard).

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Breust also isn’t part of our next premiership team, but he gets to stay in I presume?

To suggest players like Frost, who has consistently played on deep opposition forwards in the past 4 seasons (arguably the least forgiving position in the ground) don’t get considered for Rd 1 and relegated to back up depth because…..we need to “back in” someone like DGB is silly.

Can someone remind me when we have previously played Sam Frost at Box Hill? Whenever he has been fit, he has played in our 22, usually starting in the back 6.

We just finished 16th in 2023 and have a very young list with poor defensive key depth. Can’t see why Frost doesn’t get a game unless / until there’s a second big bodied KPD (presuming Blanck is getting picked first?) who can play on a second big bodied opposition forward.

Our “system” people want to back in to get the defensive job done….generated the 3rd worst points against in the competition in 2023. We simply aren’t that good.

We should have two big one-v-one key defender against pretty much every team we play against. Blanck and Frost are the first two candidates, and neither is necessarily ahead of each other.

Scrimshaw doesn’t play on big bodies effectively and neither does DGB. Sicily is best used as a floating third intercepting defender.

Frost was dropped after putting in a horrendous performance against Port. He was crucified in the media after that game. His dropping was masked by a mystery "injury," and it certainly helped keep the heat off him.

He was out again with another injury after round 20.

In the games he didn't play our backline looked more cohesive IMO.

 

[barbster]

Except club has been clear that in 2024 spots are earnt on merit not development. Absent injuries to others DGB has to step up a fair bit to get regular games next year. Reckon he’s been gifted games a bit to date - needs to really earn it with some dominant performances down back over preseason or at box hill.

Awesome, so Frost won’t be getting many if any games.

 

[barbster]

They don’t play on the same opponents.

If you want to put a 87kg DGB on a 100kg AFL forward whilst Frost plays at BH - be prepared for even more whipping (both of Denver here and us on the scoreboard).

Blanck will be taking the 100kg forwards, not many teams have two of them. DGB although slight of build, has the height to take a key forward and doesn’t take a step back in regards to physicality. Dustin Fletcher was also a similar build and we all know how good he was.

 

[HedgeFund]

Frost was dropped after putting in a horrendous performance against Port. He was crucified in the media after that game. His dropping was masked by a mystery "injury," and it certainly helped keep the heat off him.

He was out again with another injury after round 20.

In the games he didn't play our backline looked more cohesive IMO.

He has never played at Box Hill.

I’ve never seen him listed as “omitted” from our lineup.

Have you?

If so, feel free to post / reply.

 

[HedgeFund]

Blanck will be taking the 100kg forwards, not many teams have two of them. DGB although slight of build, has the height to take a key forward and doesn’t take a step back in regards to physicality. Dustin Fletcher was also a similar build and we all know how good he was.

Okay so:

1. Blanck (who is seen by the club as so important to us he is in a one year contract ) will be our only genuine key defender then, and if he is getting pantsed during a game, we will replace him with…..Scrimshaw? DGB? Weddle? Ramsden?

2. DBG is now effectively Dustin Fletcher 2.0. We will be fine then.

 

[tl92]

Okay so:

1. Blanck (who is seen by the club as so important to us he is in a one year contract ) will be our only genuine key defender then, and if he is getting pantsed during a game, we will replace him with…..Scrimshaw? DGB? Weddle? Ramsden?

2. DBG is now effectively Dustin Fletcher 2.0. We will be fine then.

Can’t wait for blanck to sign an extension so this 1 year deal argument goes out the door

 

[barbster]

Okay so:

1. Blanck (who is seen by the club as so important to us he is in a one year contract ) will be our only genuine key defender then, and if he is getting pantsed during a game, we will replace him with…..Scrimshaw? DGB? Weddle? Ramsden?

2. DBG is now effectively Dustin Fletcher 2.0. We will be fine then.

1. Blanck will be given another contract this year, Frost won’t. If Blanck, is getting beaten badly, which I don’t really recall happening too often, there is always the option of replacing him with Sicily, who is known to play taller, bigger opponents. And DGB is definitely another option. If all three are getting pants, then it’s not our day.

2. Never said DGB is effectively Fletcher, just that his body type is similar. Too many fans thinking if players are not built that they can’t play. Will Day being the perfect example, with fans thinking he would need to fill out before playing seniors.

As mentioned by a previous poster, Frost apparently received a mysterious injury after an ordinary performance in the Port game (no injury noted in the match report). Next game without Frost we beat Brisbane. Frost has another shocker against St. Kilda later in the season, goes out of the side under the guise of an injury (nothing noted in match report), next game we beat Collingwood.
Not having Frost in the side is not going to hurt us one iota.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Frost was dropped after putting in a horrendous performance against Port. He was crucified in the media after that game. His dropping was masked by a mystery "injury," and it certainly helped keep the heat off him.

He was out again with another injury after round 20.

In the games he didn't play our backline looked more cohesive IMO.

There was no mystery injury. Frost was genuinely injured. That being said his form had dropped off dramatically. He has come back in reasonable nick. Everyone competing for spots. That includes how u go in pre season

 

[HedgeFund]

There was no mystery injury. Frost was genuinely injured. That being said his form had dropped off dramatically. He has come back in reasonable nick. Everyone competing for spots. That includes how u go in pre season

Frost went out of the side twice this year. In both instances the club said it was due to injury.

Frost was playing with a foot injury. He didn’t play for 2 games in the middle of the year and returned. Then he missed the last 4 games with a recurrence of that injury. If the club thought we were going better without him and he was fit to play….he would’ve played at Box Hill.

Which he clearly hasn’t.

FWIW - I recall Scrimma going back to BH when we were actually in season, and people here claiming he actually had a mystery “turf toe” injury which meant he could play at the lower level, but not AFL.

Which was a total load of

Reality was, as he then admits as much in a post season interview, he returned to the club unfit / overweight and quite rightly was not picked in the senior team.

A fit Frost will only miss out (and play VFL) when there are two better performing KPDs available.

Has not happened in the past 4 years.

 

[barbster]

Frost went out of the side twice this year. In both instances the club said it was due to injury.

Frost was playing with a foot injury. He didn’t play for 2 games in the middle of the year and returned. Then he missed the last 4 games with a recurrence of that injury. If the club thought we were going better without him and he was fit to play….he would’ve played at Box Hill.

Which he clearly hasn’t.

FWIW - I recall Scrimma going back to BH when we were actually in season, and people here claiming he actually had a mystery “turf toe” injury which meant he could play at the lower level, but not AFL.

Which was a total load of

Reality was, as he then admits as much in a post season interview, he returned to the club unfit / overweight and quite rightly was not picked in the senior team.

A fit Frost will only miss out (and play VFL) when there are two better performing KPDs available.

Has not happened in the past 4 years.

I suggest you Google ‘Scrimshaw turf toe’, you will see it was the club that came out with the suggestion Jack had turf toe and not fans.
From the Hawthorn website
‘Jack has had an interrupted season, most recently managing a turf toe injury’

 

[Slainte]

Breust also isn’t part of our next premiership team, but he gets to stay in I presume?

To suggest players like Frost, who has consistently played on deep opposition forwards in the past 4 seasons (arguably the least forgiving position in the ground) don’t get considered for Rd 1 and relegated to back up depth because…..we need to “back in” someone like DGB is silly.

Can someone remind me when we have previously played Sam Frost at Box Hill? Whenever he has been fit, he has played in our 22, usually starting in the back 6.

We just finished 16th in 2023 and have a very young list with poor defensive key depth. Can’t see why Frost doesn’t get a game unless / until there’s a second big bodied KPD (presuming Blanck is getting picked first?) who can play on a second big bodied opposition forward.

Our “system” people want to back in to get the defensive job done….generated the 3rd worst points against in the competition in 2023. We simply aren’t that good.

We should have two big one-v-one key defender against pretty much every team we play against. Blanck and Frost are the first two candidates, and neither is necessarily ahead of each other.

Scrimshaw doesn’t play on big bodies effectively and neither does DGB. Sicily is best used as a floating third intercepting defender.

There is no equivalence between Breust and Frost. Breust is one of the great small forwards of the modern era. Frost is a journeyman defender. It is hard to think of a team where Breust would not be best 22 whereas there are only a handful of teams where Frost would get a regular game. The fact that he gets a regular game with us says more about us than it does about Frost.

 

[HedgeFund]

I suggest you Google ‘Scrimshaw turf toe’, you will see it was the club that came out with the suggestion Jack had turf toe and not fans.
From the Hawthorn website
‘Jack has had an interrupted season, most recently managing a turf toe injury’

He then admitted recently he was dropped out of the side due to not being fit enough. Turf toe was rubbish. We don’t need to Google that.

 

[HedgeFund]

There is no equivalence between Breust and Frost. Breust is one of the great small forwards of the modern era. Frost is a journeyman defender. It is hard to think of a team where Breust would not be best 22 whereas there are only a handful of teams where Frost would get a regular game. The fact that he gets a regular game with us says more about us than it does about Frost.

I pointed out that the OP wouldn’t suggest Breust be left out, yet the post clearly stated.

Frost is not part of our next premiership team and should be just back up depth.

This clearly suggests he should be just back up depth as he won’t be in our next premiership team.

Yes, he isn’t anywhere near as good as Breust, but Breust will never played on big forwards as a stay at home defender would he?

…..and our cupboard in that department is pretty bare.

Frankly, if neither player were available, we could probably cover Breust going out more easily than Frost because we have recruited / drafted two new small forwards (Watson, Ginnavin).

We haven’t brought in any KPDs who are over 95kgs have we?

 

[The hands of stone]

After reading how 18yo Caddy has been 'bullying' the * at training I genuinely fear the health of our backline

 

[WWSD]

With Amon, Impey, Jiath & Mitchell as the small defenders. How will D’Ambrosio fit into the rotation? I would think playing him on the wing would’ve been the better option. Last year our forward 50 entries were poor.

 

[Dewnior]

We haven’t brought in any KPDs who are over 95kgs have we?

Weight is not as important as core strength and smarts. Players like Scarlett and Grimes were always underweight compared to their opponents.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

There was no mystery injury. Frost was genuinely injured. That being said his form had dropped off dramatically. He has come back in reasonable nick. Everyone competing for spots. That includes how u go in pre season

What was the injury? He only missed one game and the second week off was our bye. After how he was absolutely murdered by the media I feel that Mitchell was protecting him, and I wasn't the only one who thought that at the time. Maybe we all had our tinfoil hats on though.

Edit: foot injury. I'll take my tinfoil hat off.

 

[Topiary]

Was definitely gifted games his first two years.

I don’t think it did him any good either, he was being asked to play senior AFL footy on a weekly basis when his conditioning and strength was barely VFL standards.

Whereas Weddle last year was in elite physical shape from the moment he stepped through the doors at Waverley and could adapt to the pace of AFL much quicker.

I could feel the clubs attitude to DGB subtlety change last year, I feel like they have told him the pro a toon period is over and as you say he will get picked purely in performance rather than reputation/development in 2024.

Despite being well liked by the Group, If he makes it, he makes it. If he does not we move on. I like the maturity and common sense.