Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay Pt 2 *Pilot Greg Lynn sentenced 32 yrs with a non-parole period of 24 yrs

[Kurve]

Here is PART 1 Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

DPP v Lynn [2024] VSCA 62 (12 April 2024) INTERLOCUTORY APPEAL​

R v Lynn (Rulings 1-4) [2024] VSC 373 (28 June 2024)​

R v Lynn (Rulings 5 & 6) [2024] VSC 375 (28 February 2024)

R v Lynn (Ruling 7) [2024] VSC 376 (8 May 2024)

The Greg Lynn Police Interview Tapes (Shortened Version)

The 3.5 HR Police Interview

R v Lynn [2024] VSC 635 (18 October 2024)​

THREADS FOR THE HIGH COUNTRY DISAPPEARED
High Country Disappearance of Prison Boss David Prideaux
The Disappearance of Warren Meyer

2008 - Warren Meyer (23 March 2008) not found
2010 - Japp and Annie Viergever (29 March 2010) both shot & 3 dogs, house burnt.
2011 - David Prideaux (5 June 2011) not found
2017 - Kevin Tenant (17 February 2018) shot 3 times, played dead.
2019 - Conrad Whitlock (29 July 2019) not found
2019 - Niels Becker (24 October 2019) not found
2020 - Russell Hill and Carol Clay (20 March 2020) murdered

Lynn's first wife Lisa, was found dead on 26 October 1999.

 

[GardenGnome]

LYNN gave evidence that Hill was wearing head torch we he loaded him into trailer, answering question of same from Prs. Asked if that headtorch was illuminated when Hill grabbed gun in Patrol (as interior light was off-- fromLynn), and if illuminated whilst he struggled with Hill. Lynn couldn't remember. Prs. put it to him once about you would remember if torch was on, especially during struggle (would have been shining in Hill's eyes). Prs. line of questioning was too cast doubt on these subtke details...but didn't pursue heavily.

Re:Lynn music...Prs. asked 1 question (maybe 2?), what music did you play to try to annoy them...he couldn't recall...Prs. implied that was unusual, you would expect he would remember what music he thought would annoy elderly Hill /Clay the most...

Intonation and cadence from Lynn changed during this questioning...IMO, commensurate with someone who has not actually "experienced" those elements of his story...

Yes precisely!!

Perhaps more could have been done to ask him (on the spot) to elaborate on specific details and clarify some of the finer points he is conveniently “not able to recall” (aka not included in the truly magnificent and carefully finessed script that ticks all the boxes).

The answers, or lack of, and potential squirming or change of demeanour upon being caught on these points could help illustrate the contrast between those “not able to recall” finer details and the precise detail on other (conveniently very favourable) specifics such as where his hand and finger may or may not have been on the shotgun during the (alleged) struggle.

 

[GardenGnome]

While attempting to find Justice Croucher’s directions to the jury in Lynn’s trial I came across this conference paper entitled “Jury Directions in a trial - a Path through the Labyrinth” which provides insight into some of the issues relevant to Jury Directions.

A couple of examples are super relevant to this case. I can paste paragraphs for reference but it’s pretty easy reading, and something to pass the time while we wait!

https://www.supremecourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/assets/2017/09/45/cdf48d355/jury+directions+on+trial+-+a+pathway+through+the+labyrinth+-+darwin+july+2014.doc

 

[highcountry]

LYNN gave evidence that Hill was wearing head torch we he loaded him into trailer, answering question of same from Prs. Asked if that headtorch was illuminated when Hill grabbed gun in Patrol (as interior light was off-- fromLynn), and if illuminated whilst he struggled with Hill. Lynn couldn't remember. Prs. put it to him once about you would remember if torch was on, especially during struggle (would have been shining in Hill's eyes). Prs. line of questioning was too cast doubt on these subtke details...but didn't pursue heavily.

Re:Lynn music...Prs. asked 1 question (maybe 2?), what music did you play to try to annoy them...he couldn't recall...Prs. implied that was unusual, you would expect he would remember what music he thought would annoy elderly Hill /Clay the most...

Intonation and cadence from Lynn changed during this questioning...IMO, commensurate with someone who has not actually "experienced" those elements of his story...

Thanks so much for your very insightful posts of what you witnessed in court.

Sadly I had to leave for overseas several weeks in.

I’m intrigued about his demeanour on the stand.

Was he cold and aloof? Matter of fact? Cool and calm?

Most people recounting such a hideous crime scene and having to deal with all the blood and gore would be traumatised being asked to recount what had happened.

The reports I have seen here and in the press paint a very methodical matter of fact recounting of events devoid of emotion and regret.

The absence of which - I think any jury - but especially this one - is likely to ponder at some length.

Not only was the story told believable - but was the emotion displayed (or not) believable?

It is the nonverbal in any communication that we humans read subconsciously as being a much more authentic and believable than any words that are spoken.

His story seems tight - did his demeanour and non verbals match his story? Or was there a mismatch?

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

It is. I’ve not been in the bush for a while. So take this with a grain of salt.

His set up based on the photos are as cheap as it gets. Looks like he went for a scout set up Alberto_Magnifico?

It’s not a bad rig. Done after reading too many blogs. That glass Jesus.

I think he's gone more a compact lightweight route rather than a "scout" setup which I associate with forward mounted optics and backup irons.
Short barrel and low mag optics for close fast target acquisition - probably related to his interests in western action.

Short 16" barrel and a muzzle brake though, you would have definitely want to be wearing hearing protection with that thing,

Edit:
It would make a "nice" poachers rifle fitted with a suppressor and subsonic hand loads... just saying...

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

This is sort of where I’m at. I just can’t get my head around the burning of the bodies though. I know some people have said that people sometimes go to extremes to cover crimes up but I can’t imagine that even if you just wanted to cover it up, you could do this, not all night.

Hopefully the jury will be thinking the same.

 

[Underarrest_]

LYNN gave evidence that Hill was wearing head torch we he loaded him into trailer, answering question of same from Prs. Asked if that headtorch was illuminated when Hill grabbed gun in Patrol (as interior light was off-- fromLynn), and if illuminated whilst he struggled with Hill. Lynn couldn't remember. Prs. put it to him once about you would remember if torch was on, especially during struggle (would have been shining in Hill's eyes). Prs. line of questioning was too cast doubt on these subtke details...but didn't pursue heavily.

Re:Lynn music...Prs. asked 1 question (maybe 2?), what music did you play to try to annoy them...he couldn't recall...Prs. implied that was unusual, you would expect he would remember what music he thought would annoy elderly Hill /Clay the most...

Intonation and cadence from Lynn changed during this questioning...IMO, commensurate with someone who has not actually "experienced" those elements of his story...

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[maggiethecat]

It indicates carelessness when the firearms are in a vehicle with the doors open together with the ammunition, all unsecured, so 'flung' would be appropriate.



No, probably not. The guns are to be securely stored separately to the ammunition.

By law it’s considered a loaded weapon if it’s not stored correctly

 

[InagoRaida]

That pic they always show of Lynn's face, obviously in all his gear reeks of a different persona. Lynn must hate that photo, creepy!

100% agree...seeing him in court, in a well fitting suit, groomed hair, spectacles is a world apart image-wise from the sweaty, red-faced, Rambo-esque character in all the pre-trial pics.

Even more so, his speaking style is completely incongruous to the images presented in the media prior.

Demonstrates the perils of judging a book by its cover, in both instances!

 

[thumbs_up]

100% agree...seeing him in court, in a well fitting suit, groomed hair, spectacles is a world apart image-wise from the sweaty, red-faced, Rambo-esque character in all the pre-trial pics.

Even more so, his speaking style is completely incongruous to the images presented in the media prior.

Demonstrates the perils of judging a book by its cover, in both instances!

I wonder how much the halo effect plays a part in these decisions. If he turns up to court dressed as Rambo, speaks rough, they probably already would have come back with a verdict IMO.

 

[champagnegirl]

100% agree...seeing him in court, in a well fitting suit, groomed hair, spectacles is a world apart image-wise from the sweaty, red-faced, Rambo-esque character in all the pre-trial pics.

Even more so, his speaking style is completely incongruous to the images presented in the media prior.

Demonstrates the perils of judging a book by its cover, in both instances!

Probably human nature to judge the way someone presents themselves. And I’ve been wrong at times but also right many more times.

This fellow is an extreme case in terms of his detached, inhumane and reckless behaviour.

People can get unexpectedly enraged rapidly (think road rage or stolen last parking spot rage on a 43oC day) and some engage in a bit of unrealistic and thankfully unfulfilled plans of revenge, punch the wall or turn the air blue and move on.

Hopefully not too many are driven by the all consuming red mist!

I still believe in the main the old “first impressions are lasting” (with exceptions of course). I think you have to trust your gut instincts and how well your people perception radar functions.

 

[Lady O]

I still believe in the main the old “first impressions are lasting” (with exceptions of course). I think you have to trust your gut instincts and how well your people perception radar functions.

Or if the dog doesn't like him!

 

[champagnegirl]

Or if the dog doesn't like him!

Totally !! Money is on the hound’s instincts. Ive been canine rejected a few times.

 

[Kurve]

It would make a "nice" poachers rifle fitted with a suppressor and subsonic hand loads... just saying...

What might a poacher take out there? Musk ducks?

 

[thumbs_up]

Probably human nature to judge the way someone presents themselves. And I’ve been wrong at times but also right many more times.

I still believe in the main the old “first impressions are lasting” (with exceptions of course). I think you have to trust your gut instincts and how well your people perception radar functions.

Unfortunately this is an awfully flawed way of judging character, yet we continue to do so as we humans are incredibly fickle creatures (look up "the halo effect" for more on this).

 

[CredibleSauce]

It’s only confirmed by GL. I think GL said Hill was wearing it when Hill supposedly took the gun out of GH’s vehicle but then couldn’t remember if he had it on when Hill supposedly came at him with the knife.

Or what GL purports to have done with it after the deaths? Remains of it surely would have been found in either the campsite or at union spur, so he’s either taken it along with the phones and drone to dispose of and “doesn’t recall” or it didn’t exist. Was there any follow up on Russell’s boots either?

 

[CredibleSauce]

That’s right, his knife that he clearly stated (when on the stand) that he carries on his waist and apparently only uses for eating.

Normal

 

[Zidane98]

100% agree...seeing him in court, in a well fitting suit, groomed hair, spectacles is a world apart image-wise from the sweaty, red-faced, Rambo-esque character in all the pre-trial pics.

Even more so, his speaking style is completely incongruous to the images presented in the media prior.

Demonstrates the perils of judging a book by its cover, in both instances!

I'm surprised Dermie hasn't attempted to suppress & replace those images in the media with pictures of him in full Jetstar captains uniform.

 

[Terrafirma]

Off they go the jurors to begin deliberating. What I just found out this morning is that it only takes one juror to disagree and we have a hung jury. I didn't realize that 1 was all that's needed. I would hope there is at least one individual that thinks he is guilty? Retrial surely gives the Pros a chance to do a better job. Thoughts.?

 

[Pamcake1]

Long post, but I’ve been thinking about the specific details about the music that he (allegedly) played.

I think I read somewhere that when asked what music he was (allegedly) playing (with the express purpose of trying to annoy his neighbours) he couldn’t recall.

Can any of our court-attending members remember this line of questioning?

If this is so, then it’s intriguing that he can’t remember this detail. Is it perhaps because there was no music playing?

While not particularly relevant to how the deaths may have occurred, a series of questions related to the details around the music would be completely unexpected and possibly catch him off guard.

It would have been an interesting test to see how he might have answered these questions - whether his demeanour might have changed, whether he could supply specific details or claim to not recall.


Not recalling would be a sharp contrast with the claims to remember other details about that evening; down to RH/CC pyjamas/bare feet and conveniently the precise manner in which he held the weapon? Which is obviously important for his case.

Yet not the soundtrack to this whole saga? Is this likely/feasible?

I’m wondering these for a few reasons. If trying to annoy neighbours he might choose a specific genre? EDM? Aussie Pub Rock? Heavy Metal? Drum’n’Bass? Or even a favourite artist.

With such attention to detail with the rest of the story, how could he not remember the music?

It’s a 90s Patrol, would he still be playing a selection of scratched up CDs on those dusty roads? I’m guessing not, because if they were in a condition anywhere near that of the Patrol that would make for some sketchy listening.

There’s no internet connection for streaming, so the only other way to listen is via music pre-loaded to a device. Did he do this?

I’m a details person and can certainly remember music playing at certain events, even parties, restaurants etc so would definitely remember the soundtrack to such a pivotal evening.

Perhaps others are not so much into music or recall details about such things?

Do others have thoughts on what could be obscure musings?

These kind of details that you have identified here matter, locating these small facts that mount up to point to and reinforce that it is a fabricated story.
Should there be a re-trial because of a hung jury, it is these very facts ie. gun id shifts and practical aspects, the music, the need for a trailer, the need for a jury to understand the camp site via a visit in both daylight and nightime, so many details identified by many of the posters here.
Should it become necessary, there is a lot of material on this thread that could be mined for tactics and ideas with which to re-run the case.

 

[Pamcake1]

I'm surprised Dermie hasn't attempted to suppress & replace those images in the media with pictures of him in full Jetstar captains uniform.

Jetstar would object to that for one and the press would not be compliant either. DD is not 'God' just a legend in his own lunchtime.

 

[GladdyDee]

Unfortunately this is an awfully flawed way of judging character, yet we continue to do so as we humans are incredibly fickle creatures (look up "the halo effect" for more on this).

As someone who has been kicked in the shins by a little old lady on a tram, I second this. I committed the shocking crime of my elbow touching hers on alighting on rather rough tram ride.

 

[GladdyDee]

Maybe RH was betting too much action for GL to bear it any longer,ie jealous or raged, and want them to keep it down Stranger things happen IMO

 

[FranklinBluth]

Or if the dog doesn't like him!

I had a dog who barked at and tried to bite one of my exes when she first met him... Boy was she onto him....

 

[Run n Spread]

Off they go the jurors to begin deliberating. What I just found out this morning is that it only takes one juror to disagree and we have a hung jury. I didn't realize that 1 was all that's needed. I would hope there is at least one individual that thinks he is guilty? Retrial surely gives the Pros a chance to do a better job. Thoughts.?

Yes. For murder has to be 12. Other cases can have majority of 11.
Think it's too early to consider a hung jury. Given it was a 5 week trial I reckon end of week at earliest for a verdict considering the material they'd have to go through.
Than form a judgement than debate.
Also to.spite the obvious there are no new rules for a retrial. Can change tactics completely

 

[Terrafirma]

Yes. For murder has to be 12. Other cases can have majority of 11.
Think it's too early to consider a hung jury. Given it was a 5 week trial I reckon end of week at earliest for a verdict considering the material they'd have to go through.
Than form a judgement than debate.

Yeah wasn't referring to the to the time frame but whenever the verdict comes. Curious about the process between jurors when deliberating. If 1or 2 can't decide etc what do the others do? Is there a discussion for helping someone who is undecided or stuck? Or is simply cast a vote and that's it?

They can go back to the court to go over evidence again and to clarify or ask questions. If this doesn't happen could assume they have all they need within their minds. It's fascinating for me because as we often see within these forums everyone often has a different opinion. What subtilties may tip juror to go one way or another etc

Found my own answers: https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__dat...13/sd-brochure-jurors-guide-deliberations.pdf