That's true but I'm not saying that your season isn't going to plan because you traded for Tarrant, I'm saying that it was obvious the Tarrant trade wasn't the best way for your list to go.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Ryan Murphy Rumour
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That's true but I'm not saying that your season isn't going to plan because you traded for Tarrant, I'm saying that it was obvious the Tarrant trade wasn't the best way for your list to go.
Dominguez, I agreed with you the first time. Easy in hindsight (at 4 and 6 for now) and fully on board with Taz now however during trade rumour time I had a certain uneasines about not using our draft picks.
I think you need to build for long term success by continually drafting the best and making them love the club from draft age.
How much could the game change in 8 months? The hands in the back rule couldn't make the game quicker.
Missing Farmer, Johnson, Peake, Black and Schammer at the one time hurt us, but even with the side that ran out we should have won our first 2 games.
The Tarrant deal looked bad at the time, and while he has been playing well, we should have retained pick 8 and traded Medhurst for another draft pick.
Yep - this premiership clock/window stuff is BS. You never know when injury can destroy a season and set you back a good few years through trading draft picks for second hand players. I think we get enough cheap ones through the go home factor here anyway.
Can't agree that the recruitment of Tarrant was in any way a bad option, including the idea that we should have retained our first round pick. Dunn and Walker are fine examples of early selections that don't come on to become the type of player, for all sorts of reasons, that you think you may have with a good early draft pick. We may not have recruited Collard at 8, but we may well have selected him at 10. O'brien may not become a star midfielder, but I think we badly need another top notch small defender. Our recruiting staff were clearly confident in the midfield talent available through the second round of selections, and there is nothing to show that to be incorrect.
While we do have a depth in key forwards neither Murphy or Campbell look to be in Tarrant's class, especially as an alternative to Pavlich as a marking target. We have a much better forward line than last which has been hurt by the absence of one of our star players.
While we do have a depth in key forwards neither Murphy or Campbell look to be in Tarrant's class, especially as an alternative to Pavlich as a marking target. We have a much better forward line than last which has been hurt by the absence of one of our star players.
I don't understand the logic in the belief that because many of us consider Collard, Mourish and O'Brien to be good young players that we were justified in trading away draft picks. If we got 3 good players with a second round pick and 2 late picks wouldn't we get 1 very good player and 4 good players if we had a first round, two 2nd round picks and 2 late picks? There's no rule that says you can only have 3 selections.
There is no way that we would have taken Collard at 8.
The first round picks on our list are Longmuir, Pavlich, Hasleby, McPharlin, Schammer, Walker, Headland, Drum, Murphy, Dunn. Not many duds on that list. While there is a risk attached, I'd rather gamble on getting a ten year player against a forward who might only have 3 years left since it looks like we won't be contenders this year.
There is no way that we would have taken Collard at 8.
The first round picks on our list are Longmuir, Pavlich, Hasleby, McPharlin, Schammer, Walker, Headland, Drum, Murphy, Dunn. Not many duds on that list. While there is a risk attached, I'd rather gamble on getting a ten year player against a forward who might only have 3 years left since it looks like we won't be contenders this year.
That is true, we could have had more picks. I agree we wouldn't have taken Collard at 8, but at 10 he would have been in consideration.
Walker is playing as well now as whenever, and can't make the team.
If Dunn had lived up to his expectations we may not be having this discussion.
Drum, who knows?
Murphy has been on the list for a fair while "in development", but is still to actually establish himself, which is of course part of the problem with drafting to solve problems; they take time. Anyway he is currently out of the team in favour of a later pick, and achievement wise trails Mundy by a long margin.
Schammer is yet to show that he is a better player than Crowley or others selected with significantly later picks (at this stage I probably expect Collard to be a better player). He would be line ball with a fit Browne for me.
Most of the others are not simply first round picks, they are top 5 picks. And one of those, Headland, you don't rate. Along with Fiora he is clear evidence that high pick midfielders are not automomatic success stories, and Polak and McDougal do the same for talls.
The strategy of building a power forward line should help improve the midfield as their gameplan becomes a more urgent transition to the forwards. If we had the availability of the midfielders on our list, i think they could achieve that. Add Farmer's crumbing skills and defensive work into the equation and we are serious finals contenders.
we probably would have taken ricky petterd at 8 which would have been a great pick up
hes going to be a star
hes going to be a star
Maybe. But any change to when a player gets selected has ramifications. If we had taken Petard at 8, perhaps Melbourne takes Collard at 15. Either way it doesn't mean that they will succeed in their careers, although the odds should improve slightly.
walker, headland, dunn are duds, so 3 out of 9,
List management is an interesting issue. By trading draft picks for players you are essentially saying we are willing to forgo the long term (5 years+) future for the more immediate future (the next 4 years). An otherwise steady line, (if you take out the cyclical nature of the draft), becomes a sine wave. We have a peak and a trough. If the goal of all this is to win a premiership you are gambling that having a fantastic list for a few years will be enough to get you over the line.
But having a great list isn't the only factor in winning premierships. If these other factors aren't working for you in the immediate future then you will have to suffer the trough with no premiership to show for it. The other strategy is never trading picks. This way your list remains fairly even for most of the time. You rely on factors other than list quality to get you the premiership. This way though, you are still gunning in the years you would have otherwise had a trough.
In terms of Fremantle trading for Chris Tarrant, it looks like we have rolled the dice. Snake eyes this year, 2 more rolls to go.
But having a great list isn't the only factor in winning premierships. If these other factors aren't working for you in the immediate future then you will have to suffer the trough with no premiership to show for it. The other strategy is never trading picks. This way your list remains fairly even for most of the time. You rely on factors other than list quality to get you the premiership. This way though, you are still gunning in the years you would have otherwise had a trough.
In terms of Fremantle trading for Chris Tarrant, it looks like we have rolled the dice. Snake eyes this year, 2 more rolls to go.
There is of course an argument that if we hadn't traded we'd have no midfield at all. Bell, Cook, Headland, Josh Carr and Mathew Carr were all trades. All now solid, proven AFL performers.
We have Walker, JLo, Schammer, Drum, Dunn all as first round picks who are midfielders and on the sidelines. Then we have Ibbo and Collard as second rounders on the sidelines. The only first round midfielder we have on the park is Hase, and even he's not that durable.
On that evidence, you'd have to suggest loading up on draft picks is very risky. Picking winners from 17 and 18 year olds is way more risky than trading for tried and true.
This is what the Eagles have done with the occasional trade. But they had/have the most extensive scouting network in Australia.
Its also what Hawthorn have done to rebuild their list. They traded away a mental case for two first round picks, and were quite ruthless with a number of other senior players. But I'll think you'll find Hawthorn will start to trade for the right players. They did take Croady back.
The other thing about the early days of Freo is that the early picks didn't really come on that well. Its one thing to get them and then another thing to develop them. And don't forget we lost a few picks like Jeff White.
Headland is far from a dud. He hasn't met the high expectations from when we traded for him but he is far from a dud. His skills suit what our team needs more of. Long kicking mids, who aren't short people, who aren't bloody slow.
Top 10 in the league for inside 50's. Would you prefer Cook, Matty Carr, Walker or Macca kicking it into our forward half?
Headland is a bit of a dud. (im not saying this because of the whole selwood thing, this is an unbiased opinion). To me Headland is a bit of a front runner, when fremantle are playing well and winning hes up there, but when it comes to a close game, hes not anywhere to be seen.
If Pav re-signs, then trading Murphy for Ray would be a good trade.
Ray is only 21, and was the 4th pick in the 2001 draft. He has alot of potential once he bulks up a bit and learns the game a bit more
If Pav re-signs, then trading Murphy for Ray would be a good trade.
Ray is only 21, and was the 4th pick in the 2001 draft. He has alot of potential once he bulks up a bit and learns the game a bit more
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No that was Graham Polak.
Headland is not a dud. Headland has a role to play and he plays it well. Headland is not a star. Headland's biggest problem is that he was a #1 draft pick who was once a Brownlow medal favourite. He has never quite lived up to the expectations put on him as an 18-20 year old. However, that does not necessarily make him a dud. He's just not quite as good as everyone thought he would be. But the problem lies more with the expectations of others, rather than with Headland's actual capabilities and role in the side. He is not the first player to be touted a "star" as an 18-20 year old, but in reality turn out to be just a good player. Neither will he be the last...
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IP makes a good point. It's not Headland's fault he was taken as the no 1 pick. If he'd been a second or third rounder everyone would be saying what a good player he is.
A wise man once said "Unhappiness is best defined as the difference between our talents and our expectations."
A wise man once said "Unhappiness is best defined as the difference between our talents and our expectations."
Murphy was one of your shining lights last season..I like many was a fan.
What's gone wrong do you think?
- Jan 27, 2007
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No that was Graham Polak.
Headland is not a dud. Headland has a role to play and he plays it well. Headland is not a star. Headland's biggest problem is that he was a #1 draft pick who was once a Brownlow medal favourite. He has never quite lived up to the expectations put on him as an 18-20 year old. However, that does not necessarily make him a dud. He's just not quite as good as everyone thought he would be. But the problem lies more with the expectations of others, rather than with Headland's actual capabilities and role in the side. He is not the first player to be touted a "star" as an 18-20 year old, but in reality turn out to be just a good player. Neither will he be the last...
Thats a great point you make Imperial. That sums Headland up very well.
seem to recall fevola burst onto the scene as in 18 year old kicking around 10 goals in a pre-season game before going through some very lean years until he developed into the player he is today (reigning coleman medalist). while im not saying the same thing will happen with murphy i think we need to give him more time to develop as he is still young for a key position player and he certainly appears to be more mentally stable than fev who has turned out to be a star anyway. i think the club should wait until at least the end of 2008 before making a decision
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Got injured late season 2006, perhaps lost a touch of confidence - is now regaining his form with the mighty Souths in WAFL. He is playing along side Farmer, Sampi & Campbell at times so he certainly has enough AFL players around him to keep him motivated. He showed some real class and talent. I'm sure he'll be back for the Purple Horde sooner or later.
Being more mentally stable than Fev does not set a very high standard.
Waiting till 2008 might be like the Eagles with Doogs. He's on the list for 6 years for diddly-squat.
Watched a bit of the VFL game last night on ABC2.
Doogs & Ray were both playing.
Hardly sighted Doogs , Farran Ray got a lot of it but coughed it up a lot.
I reckon Cookie & macca hit more targets than Farran at the moment.
Doogs & Ray were both playing.
Hardly sighted Doogs , Farran Ray got a lot of it but coughed it up a lot.
I reckon Cookie & macca hit more targets than Farran at the moment.
- May 26, 2003
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Gilmore for Ray... How would that sound? Maybe chuck in 4th rounder as a sweetener.
Gilly may have been a Freo supporter as a kid, but his grandad played in the Dogs one and only premiership in 1954, so at least if we are cutting loose a Freo supporting youngster, we know he's going to a club where he's keeping it in the family.
Gilly may have been a Freo supporter as a kid, but his grandad played in the Dogs one and only premiership in 1954, so at least if we are cutting loose a Freo supporting youngster, we know he's going to a club where he's keeping it in the family.
