Roast Sack Horse

[Punts]

I tend to think a poor game or so = player problem; a poor month or more = coaching problem.

Every team has bad days. But bad months, with repeated issues and repeated failure to respond to them, suggests systemic patterns that are more concerning.

I agree

We haven’t solved the first quarters and it’s been a shocking 6 weeks of footy.

I’m wondering what is going on internally.

 

[caesar88]

I agree

We haven’t solved the first quarters and it’s been a shocking 6 weeks of footy.

I’m wondering what is going on internally.

I reckon there would always be something going on internally, it's a club with 40 odd blokes from all different walks of life, it'd be pretty hard to avoid conflicts and tension. It's how you deal with them that matters. Do you address and resolve them and move on quickly or do you fail to do so and let them fester into something worse.

 

[perro_loco]

Pardon the intrusion, I am doggies supporter. But sacking Horse, is like saying we should sack Beveridge. Ooops I wanted him gone about 8 weeks ago, but now he is the best coach in the history of the AFL. Oh well, that is a supporter of an AFL team for you.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Pardon the intrusion, I am doggies supporter. But sacking Horse, is like saying we should sack Beveridge. Ooops I wanted him gone about 8 weeks ago, but now he is the best coach in the history of the AFL. Oh well, that is a supporter of an AFL team for you.

See the problem is much less what happened yesterday but more of a sum of all things from the 2022 GF

 

[Kapers]

Sometimes you just have to wonder if he's good enough?

Ryan Clarke

4

Ryan Clarke

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.8

5star

K

9.1

4star

HB

9.7

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.2

2star

D

18.5

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.5

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

19.6

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

12.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.0

1star

was a great athlete and got the most out of his body, but at the end of the day, just wasn't good enough.

Longmire might be a great guy, and has gotten the most out of his ability, but at the end of the day, he might just not be good enough. My biggest issue, is now for the last 3 years we've randomly had some of the biggest losses we've seen in the last 20-40 years. He's just not that good at getting performances out of players when we need it.

I get the whole big game thing, and I was always critical of people for bashing Horse, but over the last month I think I was in the wrong. He has consistently been unable to get performances out of the team when we just NEEEEEEEED anything.

Hell, most coaches have gotten that win this year, to keep their seasons alive, and imo, to keep his job, Longmire needs to get that win in finals. He needs to show that he can motivate a group to perform, to improve, and to actually play for something.

If we don't make it to the grandfinal and make it competitive he should be gone.

Of course I want him to win a grandfinal, but I'm trying to be balanced.

 

[J_Moore]

It just wouldnt happen under a Hardwick, Lyon, Scott, Clarkson.

lmao

 

[melbournehammer]

lmao

to be fair none of them have had a team 71-0 down....

but i agree broadly that every team has bad matches and bad runs of form. Both last year and 2017 when we got the cattle back we started to look good. Our cattle are a long way off atm

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

No offence to any of the journos who turn up to the weekly pressers at HQ, but they never seem to ask the hard questions - like eg. why did you sub Corey off, why is Wicks in the team after an ordinary run of games, why name Joel on Thurs night if you were just going to manage him anyway, etc.?

They also never push for details.

Like Horse will say they have tried lots of things to help with the slow starts. Okay then, what kind of things? And if they have all not worked, is it something about our game plan that makes us susceptible to high pressure while the opposition is fresh?

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I actually disagree we don’t have a plan B. But recently we haven’t been able to execute that either.

What do you reckon the Plan B is?

 

[mcs095]

I just cant see a semi competent coach bottling a 13-1 start to whatever we are now in the space of 1.5 months.

It just wouldnt happen under a Hardwick, Lyon, Scott, Clarkson.

Lol you sure about that. Especially Lyon hahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

That's stupid too. No way does he get sacked if we finish top 4 or even top 8. We weren't even on the radar in terms of a premiership before the season started. One might even say that the first half of the season was a massive overachievement.

This.

Someone had already posted that things are never as bad or good as they seem. No one, and I mean not a single soul, thought we would be three games clear at the top of the ladder at 150%. And we clearly weren’t that good - everything went our way. For example, Heeney had completely unexpected competition leading form in a position we didn’t think he would be playing due to an injuries to Mills and Parker.

We have now had a shocking run, complete with form, injury and confidence issues - as well as teams learning how to counter our game plan and execute theirs. But we clearly aren’t this bad. The Brisbane game points to this.

I must admit that it took me a long time to accept premiership favouritism for the swans as I didn’t think our game plan would hold up to finals scrutiny (I though Carlton looked very strong). So maybe we never should have been favourites and maybe we are more like a top 4 side with a big gap between our best and worst. Which probably won’t be too dissimilar to the other top 4 sides.

Whoever wins this year will be who is “on” in September. Maybe we will fizzle out. Or maybe we will have an upswing and look at this trialling time with fondness as it was just what we needed. I back our culture and our off field leadership (by that I mean coaches and players while not on game day) to have a good crack to work through things. Will they get it done? Who knows? Literally no one.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Saying GF or bust (I.e.sack horse) is a bit much for me.

If we fizzle out with similar horrific losses through H&A the go out straight sets in finals, then I can see a case for an earlier than expected transition to Cox.

Anything middling and above (eg. one more H&A win and one finals win) then you let Longmire see out his contract (till end of next year right?) with the transition to Cox after that.

Knee jerk reactions kill stability and club cultures. Our CEO and board will not be silly enough to fall for that.

 

[J_Moore]

 

[TheMase]

What do you reckon the Plan B is?

Plan A is to go through the corridor, overlap and move the ball quickly (requires confidence)

Plan B is to retain possession with short kicks and go wider if necessary

Plan C is to go longer and try and equal contests, but we can’t compete in the air

Plan A is becoming more difficult as opposition are shutting down the corridor and we are lacking confidence in executing it (Rampe, Melican give confidence for the mids to run forward of ball along with McInerney and Papley giving execution and energy). Plan B and C we have not been able to execute recently.

Something like that

 

[TheMase]

to be fair none of them have had a team 71-0 down....

but i agree broadly that every team has bad matches and bad runs of form. Both last year and 2017 when we got the cattle back we started to look good. Our cattle are a long way off atm

Round 23 2016 Sydney v Richmond
Half Time 93-12
Three Qtr 143-20
Final 164 to 51

2017 Richmond Premiers

Ok not 71-0, but just about an equally deplorable display.

 

[Kapers]

Round 23 2016 Sydney v Richmond
Half Time 93-12
Three Qtr 143-20
Final 164 to 51

2017 Richmond Premiers

Ok not 71-0, but just about an equally deplorable display.

The difference is Richmond went from garbage to gold, we've gone gold to garbage.

Either way, Richmond cleared out the coaching staff anyway in 2017, and it Horse isn't the problem, then we have to have a complete overhaul.

 

[Kapers]

Knee jerk reactions kill stability and club cultures. Our CEO and board will not be silly enough to fall for that.

What culture?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Round 23 2016 Sydney v Richmond
Half Time 93-12
Three Qtr 143-20
Final 164 to 51

2017 Richmond Premiers

Ok not 71-0, but just about an equally deplorable display.

Mase Richmond were not 13-1 and 4 games clear at one stage during the season.

That scoreline when their season was dead was completely acceptable given we were 1st and they finished 14th.

But i get what your saying the players turned it around the following season and said enough is enough.

 

[Punts]

He will see out his contract regardless of what happens for rest of year

 

[TheMase]

The difference is Richmond went from garbage to gold, we've gone gold to garbage.

Either way, Richmond cleared out the coaching staff anyway in 2017, and it Horse isn't the problem, then we have to have a complete overhaul.

Sometimes you have really bad days and success isn’t as far away as you think…. Was more my point.

 

[TheMase]

But i get what your saying the players turned it around the following season and said enough is enough.

yeah

 

[MR0808]

Round 23 2016 Sydney v Richmond
Half Time 93-12
Three Qtr 143-20
Final 164 to 51

2017 Richmond Premiers

Ok not 71-0, but just about an equally deplorable display.

I saw a documentary on the 2017 season, and Cotchin basically said, after that game, the players all met as a group and said it's never happening again. Hopefully we can do that too

 

[strauchanie59]

I saw a documentary on the 2017 season, and Cotchin basically said, after that game, the players all met as a group and said it's never happening again. Hopefully we can do that too

After the 2022 Grand Final, our players got together and started a hard seltzer company.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Plan A is to go through the corridor, overlap and move the ball quickly (requires confidence)

Plan B is to retain possession with short kicks and go wider if necessary

Plan C is to go longer and try and equal contests, but we can’t compete in the air

Plan A is becoming more difficult as opposition are shutting down the corridor and we are lacking confidence in executing it (Rampe, Melican give confidence for the mids to run forward of ball along with McInerney and Papley giving execution and energy). Plan B and C we have not been able to execute recently.

Something like that

Thanks, makes sense.

I get why we are struggling with Plan C, as our talk marking targets do not regularly deliver.

Why are we struggling with Plan B? Too much oppo pressure? Not enough outside run to create options? We have so many good kicks in the team, so it doesn’t feel like Plan B should be something we naturally struggle with.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

After the 2022 Grand Final, our players got together and started a hard seltzer company.

Somehow i didnt think it was possible but this team 2 years later is even more mentally fragile than in 2022.

You trust this group in a final??