SALADA/VladFL: Slap on the wrist. - STRICTLY ESSENDON SUPPORTERS ONLY

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Mercuri Rising said:
rines, Baker & McKenzie reported that Charter sourced (amongst other things) TB4 for Dank, both directly, and indirectly through materials provided to Alavi (the chemist). I can't find the other articles, but the dosages for "Thymosin" on the consent forms match the recommended dosages of TB4 that Charters suggested when asked by Dank. So yep, as we knew, as far as circumstantial evidence goes, it's bad. I just couldn't remember specifics before. : |
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Firstly, I would ignore pretty much everything Charter had to say.. I think he is a bigger flake than Dank. Also both Hird and Dank maintain that Charter had NOTHING to do with the EFC program. So IF he was asked to source things, it would have been for other purposes NOT EFC..

The dosages for many drugs of the same 'family' are similiar.. a bit like how you might take two panadol, or two nurofen, or two panadeine forte.. doesn't make them the same drug. That is why it is called CIRCUMSTANTIAL and not PROVEN. :)

On the same track.. The AFL has tried to 'guess' the drug by working 'backwards' from a description of its dosage and effects.. for example if I said to you "take one blue pill before bed and it will help you sleep", someone could CORRECTLY circumstantially suggest that I have asked you to take ONE tablet of Zopiclone. Zopiclone is a blue pill that is marketed as a 'sleeping aid'. However as it turns out, I was suggesting you take ONE tablet of Phenergan. Phenergan is a blue pill that is marketed as an 'anti-histamine' however it has a side effect of making many people very drowsy and thus assists with sleep.

That is why it is VERY dangerous to apply the AFL's 'investigative' powers to this situation.. you simply can not say 1 apple plus 1 orange equals a banana.

I hope this makes sense.. I'm a little tired.
 
Ok I need to get to bed but I'll put this here for now. Been doing some research on a poster named lones37 from the HTB. This person seems pretty confident in the information he has been fed (and is also rabidly anti-Hird, considers him the mastermind).

For analysis' sake, here's The lones37 timeline:

Only 1 post between September 2009 and February 2013 - possibly an alias? That's a long time between drinks on a forum like this. Has since been posting rabidly only in the HTB.

Anyway, this is what I have pieced together from his posts:

Feb 2012 - Gerard Healy tipped off Adrian Anderson about the supplements program. Anderson presumably then informed Vlad et al inside the AFL
Oct 2012 - Anderson resigns due to Vlad et al deciding to cover this up
Nov 2012 - Purple Headed Warrior wanted to report this story but club threatened legal action. This continued until the Feb presser

- Dank's ACC interview: "Under oath he stated he gave Hird 30 jabs of hexarelin, the players TB4 and 4 other peptides banned."
- 6 to 8 players taken banned substances (altho recently said 11 players took Thymosin)
- changes his mind between 5 and 6 banned substances
- flip flops on AOD status and likelihood of prosecutions for it
- 600 texts between Dank and Hird supposedly incriminating Hird. Hird has had an injunction on them since April, however things are slowly being leaked
- Zaka was given TA-65 (legal)

Reading through so many posts at once, I see clear flip flopping on some of the details - AOD status, the number of players involved and the number of banned substances.

However, I thought I would put this here for information/dissection.
 

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rines said:
Firstly, I would ignore pretty much everything Charter had to say.. I think he is a bigger flake than Dank. Also both Hird and Dank maintain that Charter had NOTHING to do with the EFC program. So IF he was asked to source things, it would have been for other purposes NOT EFC..

The dosages for many drugs of the same 'family' are similiar.. a bit like how you might take two panadol, or two nurofen, or two panadeine forte.. doesn't make them the same drug. That is why it is called CIRCUMSTANTIAL and not PROVEN. :)

On the same track.. The AFL has tried to 'guess' the drug by working 'backwards' from a description of its dosage and effects.. for example if I said to you "take one blue pill before bed and it will help you sleep", someone could CORRECTLY circumstantially suggest that I have asked you to take ONE tablet of Zopiclone. Zopiclone is a blue pill that is marketed as a 'sleeping aid'. However as it turns out, I was suggesting you take ONE tablet of Phenergan. Phenergan is a blue pill that is marketed as an 'anti-histamine' however it has a side effect of making many people very drowsy and thus assists with sleep.

That is why it is VERY dangerous to apply the AFL's 'investigative' powers to this situation.. you simply can not say 1 apple plus 1 orange equals a banana.

I hope this makes sense.. I'm a little tired.
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Yep, all good points. It just sometimes feels like it'll take footage of Dank dropping a package of GHRP-6 at a bikie safehouse for that line of attack to be dropped. And even then...
 
TheGreatBarryB said:
Dank didn't get it wrong, that's just BS. He mentioned TB4 because that's what he meant.
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And then he spoke about physiological effects of thymomodulin. His interview is inconsistent.
 

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Xtratification said:
I'm spending way too much time trying to fit people involved in this with Mass Effect characters now. Time for bed.
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Pretty sure Caro is that reporter from the citadel you get to punch in the face.
 


Hird ready to quit as Bombers eye deal that could end doping saga


  • August 24, 2013 12:00AM

JAMES Hird was last night considering whether to step down as Essendon coach and clear the way for the club and the AFL to resolve the supplements scandal that has engulfed the 2013 season.
Under terms of a settlement deal still being negotiated by lawyers for the AFL, Essendon and Hird, the Bombers would be stripped of all premiership points for this season and take no part in next month's finals series.
The club would be fined $1.75 million but retain its draft picks.
The AFL would substantially tone down its allegations against the club and its officials contained in the fiercely disputed 34-page statement of grounds publicly released this week.
The club would plead guilty to bringing the game into disrepute through its failed governance and management of a radical supplements program, but in effect have no doping case to answer.
Hird, assistant coach Mark Thompson, football manger Danny Corcoran and club doctor Bruce Reid have all been given the weekend to consider whether to accept agreed penalties.
​

RECOMMENDED COVERAGE​
Hird is facing a 12-month ban from the game. Corcoran and Reid have been offered a three-month suspension. Thompson, whose principle culpability in the saga was the hiring of high-performance manager Dean Robinson, can escape with a fine.
Negotiations remain fluid, with the AFL pushing for some draft penalties and lawyers from all sides haggling over the statement of grounds.
Reid is understood to be determined to contest the charges against him to protect his reputation and private practice.
Corcoran and Thompson are more likely to accept the penalties on offer.
At the time of publication, there was no indication from Hird whether he would relinquish the job he has defiantly clung to throughout the doping scandal.
If he does agree to step down, there is a real prospect that the seven-month saga can be largely resolved at Monday's meeting of the AFL Commission.
Hird is under no compulsion to accept the AFL's prescribed penalty and may still choose to defend himself. His legal action against the AFL remains ongoing.
Essendon president Paul Little yesterday said he believed the dispute could be resolved "before too long".
"At yesterday's meeting of AFL club chairmen and presidents, I stressed we wanted matters resolved but also that matters need to be concluded in a fair manner with charges and penalties that reflect the club's actual failings and the evidence," Little said.
"We have made mistakes in terms of governance and people management, and we apologise for them. We also accept there will be AFL sanctions as a consequence but the evidence does not extend to drug cheating, and we're working to ensure that the charges and ultimate penalties reflect this."
The club and all four officials are charged with conduct unbecoming or prejudicial to the interests of the AFL following an Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority investigation into its 2012 supplements program.
Essendon is adamant it did not knowingly administer any player with performance-enhancing drugs. Equally, it concedes that it cannot know for certain what players were given under the radical program of injections run by sports scientist Stephen Dank.
Dank maintains he kept records of every drug and no banned substances were used.
Any settlement will involve substantial concessions from the league, the club and Hird. As a practical first step towards resolution, the AFL withdrew its executive team from negotiations, leaving discussions with Essendon in the hands of outside lawyers from corporate firm Minter Ellison.
After the AFL published the statement of grounds without consulting Essendon, Little said he had lost "total confidence" in the AFL executive's ability to handle the issue.
As the most enthusiastic advocate for the 2012 supplements program still employed at Windy Hill, Hird has been asked to accept the harshest penalty. However, the re-working of the charges against him may open the door for a possible return to AFL coaching. As one Essendon official said last night: "No matter what happens, the club will look after him."
Essendon is prepared to write off this season in the hope of protecting its future onfield prospects, which would otherwise have been cruelled by the loss of draft picks. The unprecedented removal of premiership points would reduce the club's remaining two matches to dead rubbers and open an opportunity for Carlton and possibly West Coast to take the last spot in the finals.
Essendon plays Carlton at the MCG tonight. The prospect of Carlton supporters and many from Essendon hurling abuse at Hird, a former footballer who regularly held Australia's greatest sporting stadium in thrall, looms as another dark moment for a proud coach and club.
If Essendon and the AFL needed any further impetus to push mutual hostilities aside and negotiate an outcome, it came on Thursday morning, when the tearful mother of an Essendon player unleashed on Melbourne radio months of anger, fear and despair about the club's treatment of her son through its injection of hormones and other supplements throughout the 2012 season.
Hird yesterday said he had listened to the interview and was concerned to hear the mother's fears.
The AFL's hand in negotiations was strengthened by the solid backing of the other 17 clubs concerned at the damage the scandal was doing to the game.
 
hugorune said:
On the balance, it could be worse. I don't think either 'side' will be fully happy with that, but it allows us to move forward without compromising the club for the next five years.
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I agree the club is too important. It's means Hird can fully focus and clear his name via the courts,will also take away most of the media scrutiny from the club and players.

If everything is fine and dandy regarding Hird he can be reinstated as coach for 2015 if he wants too.
 
OB1 said:
How many people at your work hound you about the club, how many games you been to & heard what people are saying. FFS you are so far removed from the reality of whats happening here its not funny. You have no idea the frenzy its been & you have no idea how hard its been for the supporters at ground zero. To even suggest that the WC issues of 1 player getting suspended for "recreational drugs" is in any way similar to the systematic & relentless aasult on ever single aspect of this club we have endured, is frankly insulting & grossly ignorant of the gravity of whats has already happened & whats to come. If this club loses its coaches & officials do you think players won't follow. Do you think sponsors won't drop off if we plead guilty & memberships won't suffer. What do you think will happen to the club in 5 years time when we only have 35k members, struggling for sponsors & still languishing at the bottom from missing out of the proposed 2 years of good draft picks? We will become Melbourne. we will enter the cycle of AFL dependance & be forever doomed to mediocrity. Make no mistakes here, Melbourne was once a power club to & lets not forget Richmond have spend 30 years as an almost insignificant entity. Its the height of hubris to assume it couldn't happen to us.
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I ask you again - Show me how WC has suffered - And their problem was a deeply entrenched cultural issue within the club.

Its better to be a half full, rather than a half empty person.
 
The club has to fight hard to retain draft picks ( not as damaging with FA ) to make it a more appealing prospect for the next coach, whether that it is Roos, or whoever.

We all know the AFL penalties are over the top, even in its current format.

But for Hird to be considering his options is crazy - Happy for you to continue fighting in the courts - You have to walk. And Corcoran with his high level sporting background, to condone the risky nature of the supplements program is appalling.

Better to put the deal to bed quickly, or we will have another fictitious mother or father, calling the radio next week.

And I hope the players can lift to defeat Carlton - I've had enough of the hypocrite Malthouse pontificating on radio,especially considering the suspicions behind each of his premierships.
 
For mine: it's the same offer from way back when. If accepted, then the club has seriously ****ed up and it should have been accepted back then. Essentially for me it would mean we took banned substances but the afl want to cover it up. If we are to play for zero points I won't be attending nor offering my seat for resale. Hope there are less attendees than a port v north match.
 
Hird will consider this if he does take Vlad / AFL to court, he surely has realised he can't be an AFL coach and take on the league while being a coach of a club within that league.

1) He can't give 100% of his time to the players which is required and Bomber did mention that weekly preparations for each round has suffered.

2) The AFL owns to much in the PR battle, if he stayed as coach and continued to sue Vlad and the League Essendon will cop weekly shitstorms from the media. An after 7 months of media camping outside his front door he is probably sick of it and doesn't want to subject his family to that any longer than they should.

I for one will still be attending tonight's game, if the rumours are true it will be the last time we will see Hirdy grace the MCG as an employee of the EFC, I don't want to miss that and he deserves a high capacity crowd for his final game as coach.
 
Drifted over to the HTB to read the measured opinions of our esteemed opposition members. Am currently in Transylvania and found myself chortling at the indignation many seem to be expressing. A pleasant way to pass some time over a hot chocolate.
 
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