Sam Konstas: Are you on board with him?

[HirdsTheWord]

I reckon he was an absolute campaigner on field, which lead the Indian reaction as much as anything haha but using "non-striker talking" as justification he's a twat or the Indian reaction was fair is just ridiculous.

they are all campaigners on the field.

just hits harder when a 19 yr old is sledging Kohli who can't score anymore i suppose.

 

[Sphynx]

Without getting into a discussion about Smith’s technique, everybody prioritises runs over looks.

However the truth is that almost every successful batsman has a good technique.

There are very few technically deficient batsmen who also scored a lot of runs.

It took about 3-4 years of Smith piling on runs for the commentators to stop discussing/bagging his technique though.

The same went for someone like Chanderpaul.

Fact remains, the kid is averaging 40 in the Shield at effectively 18 (he turned 19, 8 weeks ago) .

And just smashed one of the best bowlers in the modern era to all parts of the MCG on day 1 of a boxing day test.

He should just keep doing whatever he is doing. The standard of bowling in the SS is not shit in world standards. He's earned a baggy green at 19, why turn away from what has brought him here?

I would have thought after Smith, most fans would embrace the possibility of someone coming in with a new way of scoring runs.

Pant is another one comparable in a way to Konstas. Whilst he's got a good technique, the guy ends up all over the place, on his back half the time, playing shots. You would want him in your side though.

 

[ABAB]

He was pretty full on for a 19 year old debutant, was revving up the crowd the whole time he was in the field

Massive crowd and nothing was happening, seem to effected the Indian players more than anyone else as they copied him lol.

 

[Soggy2112]

Gilchrist held the bat high, so he had a longer lever, in terms of how his hands worked, his grip is conventional and no way close to the grip of the others who were all very much bottom hand dominant.

The famous WC Final where he batted with a squash ball in his glove is impossible with a bottom hand dominant grip

My point being that holding the bat that high was very unconventional. It does have its draw backs in that it gives you less control of the bat, which is probably why not everyone does it.

However, that unconventional grip helped him generate far more power in his shots and is part of what made him such an effective player.

The point is is that he worked out ways to mitigate the flaws in his method and maximise his strengths.

As did both the Smiths, they use their grip to be so dominant through the leg side in a way most players cannot, and they worked out ways to limit the deficiencies.

That is my whole point. We’ve seen so little of Konstas so far, we may find out that the split grip allows him to play in a way that a more conventional player could not. If that’s what comes natural to him and he’s scored as many runs as he has to this point, then it makes far more sense to work on ways to limit his weaknesses than it does to automatically change the thing that may well be his greatest strength simply because it is not conventional.

 

[Black Diamond]

Holding the bat high or low on the handle is not a technical matter. It is a matter of comfort, strength and preference. Langer started doing it himself after seeing Gilchrist do it.

Yes, the longer leaver means you can hit the ball harder, but only if you have the strength in the first place to execute.

Edit: FFS, cannot believe I spelled it "leaver".

 

[Coops93]

Yeah, and McDonald only called out the Indians for their behaviour, not what Konstas did to instigate it. I think that particular example is throwing stones in a glass house.

Agree about the Kohli one though. All hell would have broken loose if Starc went through Jaiswal like that.

What did Konstas do to instigate a bowler taking a wicket and immediately turning around and screaming in his face? Then for the other team to run past him screaming in his face?

What did Konstas do to warrant Kohli walking a pitch width to shoulder charge him?

The only thing he objectively did to rile them up was tell Bumrah that Khawaja wasn't ready. Did he need to get involved? No, but did he do anything to warrant an entire team going out of their way to get into his face and scream? No, that was a huge overreaction by a bunch of coats.

In the first test all he did to the Indians was play some funky shots to Bumrah and they were completely rattled from then on. They clearly had a plan to unsettle him to begin with, then once he took the bowlers on in a way they didn't expect they lost their collective minds.

The second test he called out to Bumrah as described above.

Some other points on it:

-The geeing up the crowd stuff. Kohli and Jaiswal were also getting involved with the crowd when on the boundary, does that warrant Cummins giving a send of? It had nothing to do with India and wasn't mocking in any way shape or form.
-What about Jaiswal mocking Starc and Labuschagne in the first test? Maybe one of our guys should give him a shoulder charge to put him in his place then say it's his fault for being soft.
-Is it his chat under the helmet in close? Labuschagne talks more shite than anyone in history. Head talks a lot of nonsense. That's not a fair reason to be singled out.

Yes, he's been brash and enjoyed/played up the moment more than expected, but he's not been unsporting in any way at all and did not deserve the response the Indians gave him. The Indians had a huge overreaction to the kid and we're blaming the kid.

 

[The hands of stone]

The grip is unconventional, but he has scored a stack of runs to this point using that grip. It’s very possible that as his career progresses we will learn that his unconventional grip allows him to access scoring options that more conventional players cannot. We have seen the same with Du Plessis, Gilchrist, and both Smiths.

This is a guy who has been surrounded by elite coaches his whole life, to make a snap judgment on his technique based on what is a tiny percentage of his career would be foolish.

It's not really a snap judgement.
I think most have seen his 4 test innings and I've seen him live bat twice . Also footage on the CA website
I think that's plenty to see, observe and have an opinion on batting technique/method.

I also mentioned that while the grip may/is a potentially issue it is magnified by his current front foot work.

All those guys listed were/are exceptional front foot players when in form . They didn't plant or get stuck across the line due there position too often.
That's a key difference at the minute with them to Konstas technique.

It's a few things combined , not one thing. And it's an opinion .
I just doubt that what I've seen is an average 40 test bat . Could be wrong .

I would be very surprised if they aren't working on ironing these out , we will see.

 

[Sphynx]

What did Konstas do to instigate a bowler taking a wicket and immediately turning around and screaming in his face? Then for the other team to run past him screaming in his face?

What did Konstas do to warrant Kohli walking a pitch with to shoulder charge him?

The only thing he objectively did to rile them up was tell Bumrah that Khawaja wasn't ready. Did he need to get involved? No, but did he do anything to warrant an entire team going out of their way to get into his face and scream? No, that was a huge overreaction by a bunch of coats.

In the first test all he did to the Indians was play some funky shots to Bumrah and they were completely rattled from then on. They clearly had a plan to unsettle him to begin with, then once he took the bowlers on in a way they didn't expect they lost their collective minds.

The second test he called out to Bumrah as described above.

Some other points on it:

-The geeing up the crowd stuff. Kohli and Jaiswal were also getting involved with the crowd when on the boundary, does that warrant Cummins giving a send of? It had nothing to do with India and wasn't mocking in any way shape or form.
-What about Jaiswal mocking Starc and Labuschagne in the first test? One of our guys give him a shoulder charge to put him in his place then say it's his fault for being soft.
-Is it his chat under the helmet in close? Labuschagne talks more shite than anyone in history. Head talks a lot of nonsense. That's not a fair reason to be singled out.

Yes, he's been brash and enjoyed/played up the moment more than expected, but he's not been unsporting in any way at all and did not deserve the response the Indians gave him. The Indians had a huge overreaction to the kid and we're blaming the kid.

Kohli himself talks more shit to opposition batsman than just about anyone in the history of cricket. Particularly between overs.

Good post, when put in that context you are right. People only remember the words walking off in the second test, however, it was India as the instigators between Kohli and the side being embarrassed on the biggest stage (Day 1 - Boxing Day) by a 19 year old that started the whole thing.

 

[Gough]

Hayden at slip was a shocker apparently, he'd call you all the names under the sun from the corner of his mouth.

 

[Big Bryza]

What did Konstas do to instigate a bowler taking a wicket and immediately turning around and screaming in his face? Then for the other team to run past him screaming in his face?

What did Konstas do to warrant Kohli walking a pitch with to shoulder charge him?

The only thing he objectively did to rile them up was tell Bumrah that Khawaja wasn't ready. Did he need to get involved? No, but did he do anything to warrant an entire team going out of their way to get into his face and scream? No, that was a huge overreaction by a bunch of coats.

In the first test all he did to the Indians was play some funky shots to Bumrah and they were completely rattled from then on. They clearly had a plan to unsettle him to begin with, then once he took the bowlers on in a way they didn't expect they lost their collective minds.

The second test he called out to Bumrah as described above.

Some other points on it:

-The geeing up the crowd stuff. Kohli and Jaiswal were also getting involved with the crowd when on the boundary, does that warrant Cummins giving a send of? It had nothing to do with India and wasn't mocking in any way shape or form.
-What about Jaiswal mocking Starc and Labuschagne in the first test? One of our guys give him a shoulder charge to put him in his place then say it's his fault for being soft.
-Is it his chat under the helmet in close? Labuschagne talks more shite than anyone in history. Head talks a lot of nonsense. That's not a fair reason to be singled out.

Yes, he's been brash and enjoyed/played up the moment more than expected, but he's not been unsporting in any way at all and did not deserve the response the Indians gave him. The Indians had a huge overreaction to the kid and we're blaming the kid.

Bang. Well said. Save your legs.

 

[Carn The Berries]

What did Konstas do to instigate a bowler taking a wicket and immediately turning around and screaming in his face? Then for the other team to run past him screaming in his face?

What did Konstas do to warrant Kohli walking a pitch width to shoulder charge him?

The only thing he objectively did to rile them up was tell Bumrah that Khawaja wasn't ready. Did he need to get involved? No, but did he do anything to warrant an entire team going out of their way to get into his face and scream? No, that was a huge overreaction by a bunch of coats.

In the first test all he did to the Indians was play some funky shots to Bumrah and they were completely rattled from then on. They clearly had a plan to unsettle him to begin with, then once he took the bowlers on in a way they didn't expect they lost their collective minds.

The second test he called out to Bumrah as described above.

Some other points on it:

-The geeing up the crowd stuff. Kohli and Jaiswal were also getting involved with the crowd when on the boundary, does that warrant Cummins giving a send of? It had nothing to do with India and wasn't mocking in any way shape or form.
-What about Jaiswal mocking Starc and Labuschagne in the first test? Maybe one of our guys should give him a shoulder charge to put him in his place then say it's his fault for being soft.
-Is it his chat under the helmet in close? Labuschagne talks more shite than anyone in history. Head talks a lot of nonsense. That's not a fair reason to be singled out.

Yes, he's been brash and enjoyed/played up the moment more than expected, but he's not been unsporting in any way at all and did not deserve the response the Indians gave him. The Indians had a huge overreaction to the kid and we're blaming the kid.

If you've read my other posts I have stated, more than once, that Kohli was completely out of line with his actions in Melbourne. I was specifically talking about him getting involved with Bumrah when it wasn't necessary. It's quite obvious from watching the replays of it that he didn't just say "Sorry Jasprit, my teammate isn't ready, would you mind waiting a moment". He was deliberately confrontational and was an overreaction too (in that he didn't need to do anything). It backfired and the Indians let him know about it. Neither were a particularly good look which is why, again as I've previously stated, it was a nil-all d***head draw.

There is some blind defending of this kid going on in this thread. Yes, he got under the Indians skin in Melbourne and sucked them right in, and he should be commended for that. But he has shown moments where he is in danger of being accused of drinking his own bath water a bit, which he needs to be careful of.

 

[Coops93]

If you've read my other posts I have stated, more than once, that Kohli was completely out of line with his actions in Melbourne. I was specifically talking about him getting involved with Bumrah when it wasn't necessary. It's quite obvious from watching the replays of it that he didn't just say "Sorry Jasprit, my teammate isn't ready, would you mind waiting a moment". He was deliberately confrontational and was an overreaction too (in that he didn't need to do anything). It backfired and the Indians let him know about it. Neither were a particularly good look which is why, again as I've previously stated, it was a nil-all d***head draw.

There is some blind defending of this kid going on in this thread. Yes, he got under the Indians skin in Melbourne and sucked them right in, and he should be commended for that. But he has shown moments where he is in danger of being accused of drinking his own bath water a bit, which he needs to be careful of.

I wasn't really referencing the incident with Kohli specifcally. I saw even in the post I replied to you said that.

My reply was to the part where you said he's brought it in on himself, and I challenged that. I don't think he did bring the level of blowback the Indians gave on himself. Even that incident with Bumrah didn't warrant the level of response it got. Some response, sure, but not guys running from everywhere to scream in his face, or the bowler to instantly turn around and aggressively walk towards him and scream. That was all coatery behaviour well above what was warranted.

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Sports fans are a fickle bunch. Have a look at how quickly people have turned against JFM. These same people were screaming at JFM to be included in the World Cup team.

Kid is no doubt immensely talented but hopefully he doesn't get ruined based on the instructions given. As Pant found out in Melbourne, a batter's batting style is fine when winning, when losing, different kettle of fish.

On a seperate issue, I'd like the media to ask McDonald why McSweeney wasn't given carte blanche for the fourth test and see how that plan would work, or was the plan only ever going to apply to a 19yo kid.

 

[jannissary]

absolutely onboard. if he’s playing his natural game, why restrict, hate or not promote it more. we saw what he did in the first session at melbourne & how it dismantled the best bowler in the world.

obviously he should bat a bit more carefully, but it’s entertaining and it can be useful early in tests, like it was

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Rodney Hogg on ten news last night said Konstas was 'a slogger' and that 'you can't reverse sweep in Sri Lanka' and that 'he needs to learn how to bat properly'.

 

[PhatBoy]

absolutely onboard. if he’s playing his natural game, why restrict, hate or not promote it more. we saw what he did in the first session at melbourne & how it dismantled the best bowler in the world.

obviously he should bat a bit more carefully, but it’s entertaining and it can be useful early in tests, like it was

You’ve got to weigh up whether its output and nett result is going to be greater than the alternative.

The obvious comparison for now is, and will always be, England.

England have decided that a very mediocre batsman like Crawley (let’s leave Duckett aside because his 40 average is decent enough to earn him a spot regardless of how he does it) can keep a spot because the ‘disruption’ he causes to the opposition when he lasts more than a few overs is worth more than the few extra runs a more sedate batsman might average than Crawley’s bog-ordinary 33 or whatever it is.

They think that the 1 test every 3 or 4 that he might set up for them at 0-80 after 12 overs is worth the pain of the other 2-3 where he leaves them 1-10 after 2 overs every time he goes out to bat.

If they want him to do that they need to balance out what they think the minimum pay off is

 

[PhatBoy]

Rodney Hogg on ten news last night said Konstas was 'a slogger' and that 'you can't reverse sweep in Sri Lanka' and that 'he needs to learn how to bat properly'.

Whether he’s right or wrong he has the cricketing IQ of a grape relative to other past internationals.

 

[ABAB]

Rodney Hogg on ten news last night said Konstas was 'a slogger' and that 'you can't reverse sweep in Sri Lanka' and that 'he needs to learn how to bat properly'.

Pretty poor strike rate for a "slogger" in Shield Cricket then and he didn't even play a reverse sweep???

 

[Lia]

Thats what they said about Renshaw and he can't even put back to back Shield series together.. gets dropped every now and then to club cricket as well lol

Ok... and there are other players who have had different experiences so I'm not even sure what the point is here.

 

[jannissary]

You’ve got to weigh up whether its output and nett result is going to be greater than the alternative.

The obvious comparison for now is, and will always be, England.

England have decided that a very mediocre batsman like Crawley (let’s leave Duckett aside because his 40 average is decent enough to earn him a spot regardless of how he does it) can keep a spot because the ‘disruption’ he causes to the opposition when he lasts more than a few overs is worth more than the few extra runs a more sedate batsman might average than Crawley’s bog-ordinary 33 or whatever it is.

They think that the 1 test every 3 or 4 that he might set up for them at 0-80 after 12 overs is worth the pain of the other 2-3 where he leaves them 1-10 after 2 overs every time he goes out to bat.

If they want him to do that they need to balance out what they think the minimum pay off is

6 of one, half a dozen of another. i broadly agree with your perspective though. traditionally an opener is meant to see off the first spell, with india at least, bumrah rarely bowled more than 5-6 (from memory) before being rested. i think in both tests he did well to at least do that.

ultimately, i think the more aggressive style of batting will be more & more common tests due to the nature of short form cricket dominating throughout the world - even america has (had?) a t20 competition

 

[Carn The Berries]

I wasn't really referencing the incident with Kohli specifcally. I saw even in the post I replied to you said that.

My reply was to the part where you said he's brought it in on himself, and I challenged that. I don't think he did bring the level of blowback the Indians gave on himself. Even that incident with Bumrah didn't warrant the level of response it got. Some response, sure, but not guys running from everywhere to scream in his face, or the bowler to instantly turn around and aggressively walk towards him and scream. That was all coatery behaviour well above what was warranted.

I guess that's where we disagree... I believe in that situation he acted like a knob and the Indians responded in kind. You clearly have a different view.

 

[Carn The Berries]

You’ve got to weigh up whether its output and nett result is going to be greater than the alternative.

The obvious comparison for now is, and will always be, England.

England have decided that a very mediocre batsman like Crawley (let’s leave Duckett aside because his 40 average is decent enough to earn him a spot regardless of how he does it) can keep a spot because the ‘disruption’ he causes to the opposition when he lasts more than a few overs is worth more than the few extra runs a more sedate batsman might average than Crawley’s bog-ordinary 33 or whatever it is.

They think that the 1 test every 3 or 4 that he might set up for them at 0-80 after 12 overs is worth the pain of the other 2-3 where he leaves them 1-10 after 2 overs every time he goes out to bat.

If they want him to do that they need to balance out what they think the minimum pay off is

And be up-front with us about it so that we can judge his performances accordingly.

 

[Coops93]

I guess that's where we disagree... I believe in that situation he acted like a knob and the Indians responded in kind. You clearly have a different view.

Not as different as perhaps you may think, I believe both things are true as well. However, what I think is the level of reply far outweighed the "crime" committed by Konstas. Did he bring a response on himself? Yeah, sure, you have to expect something in reply in that situation. Do you expect a bowler to stop mid follow through, turnaround and scream in your face than have his team mates run in from every direction specifically to yell at you as well? No, that was way too far. If we'd done that I'd be calling it out all the same as disgusting behaviour.

A straight up comparison is Johnson & Anderson. That response is exactly what you'd expect. Not what Sam copped.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Not as different as perhaps you may think, I believe both things are true as well. However, what I think is the level of reply far outweighed the "crime" committed by Konstas. Did he bring a response on himself? Yeah, sure, you have to expect something in reply in that situation. Do you expect a bowler to stop mid follow through, turnaround and scream in your face than have his team mates run in from every direction specifically to yell at you as well?

A straight up comparison is Johnson & Anderson. That response is exactly what you'd expect. Not what Sam copped.

Fair enough. I just don't think that you can knowingly pinch a bully and be surprised when they punch you back. The hand wringing from McDonald made the situation worse, not better IMO.

 

[ABAB]

Fair enough. I just don't think that you can knowingly pinch a bully and be surprised when they punch you back. The hand wringing from McDonald made the situation worse, not better IMO.

Bumrah is a bully? His reaction was influenced by what Kohli since others were copying what Konstas did, Brumrah and Jaiswal after they bowled and caught him.