Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[lethalselbow]

I’ll say it again, we should extend him by 2 years. Wins shouldn’t be his primary benchmark realistically for the next 18 months.

Our primary goal needs to be getting games into kids, havd them guided by senior pros to set exacting standards - and watching our young reserves team ideally perform at VFL level to a high standard.

You don't need to pull the trigger early.

 

[Philhawk]

And it remains a bad idea no matter how many times it is said. He's contracted for 2025 and it's unlikely anyone is going to be knocking the door down to poach him. Let him show what he has got over the coming 12 months before considering any kind of extension. Guaranteeing him until 2027 and then continuing to languish would be a disaster.

The last thing we need is a desperate coach making decisions for his career. Our goal is more development, less wins. An extra year solidifies that.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

And it remains a bad idea no matter how many times it is said. He's contracted for 2025 and it's unlikely anyone is going to be knocking the door down to poach him. Let him show what he has got over the coming 12 months before considering any kind of extension. Guaranteeing him until 2027 and then continuing to languish would be a disaster.

Do contracts even matter in modern sports? If we extended him and needed to move him on how much of an impact does it play on our soft cap? Could we just pay him out and it be of no concern?

Coaches are fired under contract all the time so unsure how it works in the AFL specifically

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Do contracts even matter in modern sports? If we extended him and needed to move him on how much of an impact does it play on our soft cap? Could we just pay him out and it be of no concern?

Coaches are fired under contract all the time so unsure how it works in the AFL specifically

I'd rather avoid the payout if we can avoid it. We are still building Dingley and probably losing our lucrative major sponsor in the near future - let's not jeopardise our financial position to make Sam feel better.

I agree that wins aren't the metric Sam should be judged on - but team attitude and performance are, and there have been some warning signs there this year.

 

[lethalselbow]

I'd rather avoid the payout if we can avoid it. We are still building Dingley and probably losing our lucrative major sponsor in the near future - let's not jeopardise our financial position to make Sam feel better.

I agree that wins aren't the metric Sam should be judged on - but team attitude and performance are, and there have been some warning signs there this year.

Aren't coaches only paid out 50% of one year or one year, at most? Like most contracts, they aren't worth a lot, these days.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Aren't coaches only paid out 50% of one year or one year, at most? Like most contracts, they aren't worth a lot, these days.

Fairly sure they are increasing it to 100% of one year. Notwithstanding - I just don't see the dire need or advantage in rushing an extension. To me it sends a bad signal.

 

[Topiary]

Unlike in 2005-6 (when it was blazingly obvious), I can't envision what our forward line is going to look like in even a year, let alone beyond that - will Lewis be a part of it, or will he be constantly in and out with injury (or even traded out)? Will Ramma be there? Is Chol just a stopgap? Will Gunners still be around, or this his last year? Breuster - see Gunners. When is Calsher going to enter the fold? Will McCabe make it?
And the forward line mosquito fleet? A potential embarrassment of riches - Moore, Chad, Ginni, Hardwick, Wiz, Bruest, Butler, even Finn?

Bruest and Butler gone from the List.

 

[Gene Simmons]

Who is our Forwards coach?

 

[CHUBBSS]

Who is our Forwards coach?

Our midfield coach

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Who is our Forwards coach?

I thought Hickmont had been moved forward, hale middle and Simpson defence

 

[Mercy Seat]

The player development at our club is languishing - Sydney and Geelong are the absolute course leaders. We need to not give the slightest damn about the soft cap and throw some big money on key staff at the Swans and Cats and bring in their IP.

Player development is twice as hard when you don't have enough senior players at the club to help lead the way. We were able to turn late draft picks and rookies into premiership players through a strong system that elevated players the minute they walked into the club. Sydney and Geelong have been able to regenerate their lists constantly through this strategy. We tried the strategy too but we couldn't quite get it to work, now here we are.

I think we'll get there again, but it's a bit of a slog when there are few older leaders at the club.

 

[BobHawk]

So we've gone from denying what our eyes have seen to extending the coaches contract. Think there's a psychology class on this. People need to chill.

 

[MrPremiership]

Perhaps I'm being far too positive, but there was quite a bit to like from the first 3.5qtrs yesterday. Stuff that we haven't seen before that to me shows improvement under Sam's watch.

Against a quality midfeld of Grundy, Warner, Heeny, Adams, etc. we were:

• winning clearances
• winning contested possessions
• winning inside 50s

That's a decent way to go in winning matches. We just lacked polish and our forward line is a hot mess.

 

[lethalselbow]

So we've gone from denying what our eyes have seen to extending the coaches contract. Think there's a psychology class on this. People need to chill.

Yup!

That's priceless. lol.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Perhaps I'm being far too positive, but there was quite a bit to like from the first 3.5qtrs yesterday. Stuff that we haven't seen before that to me shows improvement under Sam's watch.

Against a quality midfeld of Grundy, Warner, Heeny, Adams, etc. we were:

• winning clearances
• winning contested possessions
• winning inside 50s

That's a decent way to go in winning matches. We just lacked polish and our forward line is a hot mess.

They're all positive metrics, but Sydney don't often win clearances, it's not the way they play. They sit back allow you to take first possession and swarm.

 

[MrPremiership]

They're all positive metrics, but Sydney don't often win clearances, it's not the way they play. They sit back allow you to take first possession and swarm.

We also won clearences against other high-quality midfields:

- Collingwood and Cats, and broke even against Essendon

Our CP numbers have been generally winning each game.

These are good building blocks for success. I think our forward line's inability to convert has been really costly

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

They're all positive metrics, but Sydney don't often win clearances, it's not the way they play. They sit back allow you to take first possession and swarm.

Yep, it’s the coaches aNd players Job to learn how to over come these obstacles.

Jordan Lewis mentioned the way to overcome this is hand balling to a fellow Hawk out on an angle. Not directly in front of the footy player.

There was photos of the premiership hawks with Sam by a fire Pitt at one of the guys home… appeared to be after our game.

Sam, Buddy, Roughy, Gibbo and Lewis around the fire Pitt. I hope they was brain storming ideas with Sam and remembering the glory days.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Player development is twice as hard when you don't have enough senior players at the club to help lead the way. We were able to turn late draft picks and rookies into premiership players through a strong system that elevated players the minute they walked into the club. Sydney and Geelong have been able to regenerate their lists constantly through this strategy. We tried the strategy too but we couldn't quite get it to work, now here we are.

I think we'll get there again, but it's a bit of a slog when there are few older leaders at the club.

Geelong had/have a plethora of successful older players on the list to guide their younger group.

But Sydney did not. Who are the senior players there that are or have been guiding their younger group? Parker, Lloyd, Rampe, Cunningham? IMO they've gone about this in a very different way to Geelong.

 

[matey]

Sam needs our support from the clubs mgt to us the fans. He chose us for those with short memories when he was being courted by other clubs and don’t want to become a Bombers/Carlton/Tigers (before Dimma) etc where as soon as things turn south the drums start beating. Let’s change the coach again! Would like to see Sam coach and run the place without the pressure of looking over his shoulder for the knives coming out while the long term plan could get compromised. I am definitely in the camp of not thinking of wins at the moment. Yesterday was crap even got a souvlaki with double meat and chillies from Lambs on the way home to feel better and it worked

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Geelong had/have a plethora of successful older players on the list to guide their younger group.

But Sydney did not. Who are the senior players there that are or have been guiding their younger group? Parker, Lloyd, Rampe, Cunningham? IMO they've gone about this in a very different way to Geelong.

Heeney, Mills and Papley would probably be decent on-field leaders also. They're not completely bereft of them.

 

[Gene Simmons]

I thought Hickmont had been moved forward, hale middle and Simpson defence

According the HFC webiste, Hickmont is our 'Contest' coach?

 

[Mercy Seat]

Geelong had/have a plethora of successful older players on the list to guide their younger group.

But Sydney did not. Who are the senior players there that are or have been guiding their younger group? Parker, Lloyd, Rampe, Cunningham? IMO they've gone about this in a very different way to Geelong.

Sydney a bit different, but they have a really good block of players in the 23-28 range, and a really strong culture. They had the 6th oldest list when they made the GF a few years back and players like Parker, Rampe, Heeney, JK, Bud, Reid all senior players.

 

[BobHawk]

Geelong had/have a plethora of successful older players on the list to guide their younger group.

But Sydney did not. Who are the senior players there that are or have been guiding their younger group? Parker, Lloyd, Rampe, Cunningham? IMO they've gone about this in a very different way to Geelong.

Probably the two strongest cultures in the AFL and both that pride themselves on their brand of football which really is a very strong feature of each club and how they play. Also, probably the two best coaches going around at the moment. I think Lyon is another one who at least knows exactly what is currently happening with the game and how to play against those two. He just doesn't seem to have the cattle and maybe his over reliance on defence (always been a Lyon thing). Could have beaten Geelong in R1. Thought they were a bit unlucky. We can't be surprised how things sit right now based on that. It is still early though and there are contenders. It is a question of whether they can adapt. Carlton was brilliant at turning their season around last year so I expect they will have learnt a lot from the Geelong game on the weekend. They need to if they are serious.

 

[Franko Armani]

Ramsden is not AFL standard, which is part of the problem.

We know we need talls and when Lewis is out we are left with Ramma who is not ready.

So he ever be ready though? 3rd year, so much Box Hill hype but genuinely looks like a headless chook in the seniors. Doesn’t look like he has it tbh.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Heeney, Mills and Papley would probably be decent on-field leaders also. They're not completely bereft of them.

True, but they aren't old-heads, which is what I was referring to.