Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[BonzaRam]

No data is being transmitted in the case of passive pings, hence there is no metadata.

You mean no Personal data? The ping connection itself reveals the location of the tower, approx location of the device and from what device (metadata).

 

[31550]

You mean no Personal data? The ping connection itself reveals the location of the tower, approx location of the device and from what device (metadata).

Getting a bit sidetracked here but yeah, but that's not what the metadata retention laws are about. Approx location is also I believe, 'very' approximate, in that I think it doesn't include signal strength, but even if it did, it won't locate a device without triangulation data. I also don't think any of this data is provided in a standard cell tower dump for law enforcement - they only get the data which relates to known IMEIs or SIMs. T

Anyway this is all moot because we know SMs phone has been found within range of the Buninyong tower, so it's consistent with the (possibly unconfirmed) 5pm ping, but still doesn't prove definitively that SM or her phone was in that location at that time. Or POS. And we still don't know where her watch is or where it's been.

 

[Awakening]

Getting a bit sidetracked here but yeah, but that's not what the metadata retention laws are about. Approx location is also I believe, 'very' approximate, in that I think it doesn't include signal strength, but even if it did, it won't locate a device without triangulation data. I also don't think any of this data is provided in a standard cell tower dump for law enforcement - they only get the data which relates to known IMEIs or SIMs. T

Anyway this is all moot because we know SMs phone has been found within range of the Buninyong tower, so it's consistent with the (possibly unconfirmed) 5pm ping, but still doesn't prove definitively that SM or her phone was in that location at that time. Or POS. And we still don't know where her watch is or where it's been.

I think Under Investigation have her watch……

 

[31550]

I think Under Investigation have her watch……

Or MurderyStuff's stalker?

 

[Underarrest_]

In the beginning, the police said 'One or more parties likely involved' in Victorian mum's disappearance. Police believe more than one person may be involved in the disappearance of missing Victorian mum Samantha Murphy.
Now they have said . Police allege he acted alone.
Saying this by the police, might be also a ploy to throw off any further 'persons of interest'
If they can't link him with the phone and dam, then someone else is involved
And where does his girlfriend fit in with all this ?
I still find it hard how a young 22-year-old guy hasn't cracked somewhere under the pressure by hardened cops, I know he has been advised by his legal team, but I think he was originally questioned for 30 hours at the time of his arrest.
It just doesn't add up to me in all this, and it looks like someone is supplying intricate information to the police

Catch, It’s a strange case. I thought it was interesting that in the first two media releases, when asked by the reporters, police said they didn’t believe there was any risk to the community too. The first media release was only four days after SM disappeared.

 

[hathound]

And can you confirm whether such 'pings' are even logged by phone companies? They may not even show up in cell tower dumps. If the tower doesn't do anything then it has nothing to log.

Sorry I cannot confirm ("'pings' are even logged by phone companies") this as I was not a mobile networks telco engineer. The type and format of the ping cellular packet would also most probably depend on whether it is 3G/4G/5G etc, together with the type of equipment connecting the transmitter eg the "Node B" for 4G network. Do we know if the tower in question supports 5G for the telco/carrier company that Sam's iPhone was connecting with?

 

[Catch]

Catch, It’s a strange case. I thought it was interesting that in the first two media releases, when asked by the reporters, police said they didn’t believe there was any risk to the community too. The first media release was only four days after SM disappeared.

The police quietly had him under surveillance, so they knew he wasn't going to be a risk. But I feel there is more to this, and I am sure the police are investigating a lot further

 

[31550]

The police quietly had him under surveillance, so they knew he wasn't going to be a risk. But I feel there is more to this, and I am sure the police are investigating a lot further

What makes you sure the police had him under surveillance so early in the case? And if this is the case, why did they wait so long to arrest him?

 

[31550]

Sorry I cannot confirm ("'pings' are even logged by phone companies") this as I was not a mobile networks telco engineer. The type and format of the ping cellular packet would also most probably depend on whether it is 3G/4G/5G etc, together with the type of equipment connecting the transmitter eg the "Node B" for 4G network. Do we know if the tower in question supports 5G for the telco/carrier company that Sam's iPhone was connecting with?

If it's the Buninyong tower I think then it's only 4G. There is no 5G there. Here is the tower coverage map.

 

[DeliveryProblems]

What makes you sure the police had him under surveillance so early in the case? And if this is the case, why did they wait so long to arrest him?

If it wasn’t his historic record that had him on their suspect list it would have been a tip off. They obviously arrested him too early to wait for any indication on where he has hidden her…

 

[Catch]

What makes you sure the police had him under surveillance so early in the case? And if this is the case, why did they wait so long to arrest him?

It was reported they had him under watch for two weeks, before arresting him. I think when it came to looking for suspects earlier in the piece, they would have checked any people that have come to the attention prior to police in the area and then checked the phone pings, the same time as SM at Mt Clear. Whether they had witnesses come forward that saw his vehicle, possibly hidden in bushes etc, with more people coming forward. It was reported somewhere that police decided to move in earlier as they were worried he might catch on

 

[hathound]

If it wasn’t his historic record that had him on their suspect list it would have been a tip off. They obviously arrested him too early to wait for any indication on where he has hidden her…

Whether they arrested him too early is a very interesting topic. I was surprised myself it was so early without a body and now finding out that it was done without recovering Sam's iPhone first.

They generally only get one shot at a conviction for murder. They must have some very good evidence to be confident of a conviction, otherwise why not allow some time to pass that may lead to important discoveries such as a body. I know it frustrates us in following these cases for our desire to see progression of a case and to see eventual justice to be done, but this is not a spectator sport.

Having the body could confirm the manner in which she died and could mean the difference between proving murder over manslaughter. I would have thought that for circumstantial evidence cases the police would be reluctant to press charges unless it has been proven very unlikely a body could ever be recovered and it becomes time to role the dice to go to trial otherwise the chief suspect would get to live out the rest of their lives free and no chance of some amount of closer for the family of the victim. The Kerry Whelan murder case falls in that category where so much time had passed with no body recovered that eventually the dice was rolled, which thankfully ended up in a successful conviction. So for POS, I really hope they have a slam dunk case without having a recovered body.

 

[DeliveryProblems]

Whether they arrested him too early is a very interesting topic. I was surprised myself it was so early without a body and now finding out that it was done without recovering Sam's iPhone first.

They generally only get one shot at a conviction for murder. They must have some very good evidence to be confident of a conviction, otherwise why not allow some time to pass that may lead to important discoveries such as a body. I know it frustrates us in following these cases for our desire to see progression of a case and to see eventual justice to be done, but this is not a spectator sport.

Having the body could confirm the manner in which she died and could mean the difference between proving murder over manslaughter. I would have thought that for circumstantial evidence cases the police would be reluctant to press charges unless it has been proven very unlikely a body could ever be recovered and it becomes time to role the dice to go to trial otherwise the chief suspect would get to live out the rest of their lives free and no chance of some amount of closer for the family of the victim. The Kerry Whelan murder case falls in that category where so much time had passed with no body recovered that eventually the dice was rolled, which thankfully ended up in a successful conviction. So for POS, I really hope they have a slam dunk case without having a recovered body.

At this point in time there is no body recovered so the arrest and murder charge have achieved nothing for anyone. They went too early for no reward…

 

[nut]

At this point in time there is no body recovered so the arrest and murder charge have achieved nothing for anyone. They went too early for no reward…

What? You’d rather they didn’t arrest him?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

What? You’d rather they didn’t arrest him?

If POS murdered SM and he only gets done for manslaughter then I don't think that's good enough IMO

 

[nut]

If POS murdered SM and he only gets done for manslaughter then I don't think that's good enough IMO

He will get sentenced on what the prosecutors can prove…
That’s how the law works.
Should they make things up?

 

[shorsky]

It's very close to the road, and can (I think) be seen from the road. So, a passing motorist might suddenly get the idea that the dam is a good place to dispose of the phone. Especially if the road was quiet at the time and nobody was around. Wouldn't take long to pull over, walk close to the dam, chuck it in, then drive off without anyone passing by.

Yep, agree re the proximity & visibility from the road, and agree it could quickly come to one’s mind as a perfect place to dispose of something that one doesn’t want found.
However, I’m not convinced that where it was found equates to someone having walked to said dam & chucking it in. I think if that happened it would’ve surely landed in the middle of the dam. . and given we’re talking about a decent sized phone, in a case that was holding credit cards etc ( imo that’s what they meant by ‘other items’ btw ) - there was some weight involved so I expect it would’ve sunk.
Or, did POS have that same expectation, but instead, it floated out toward the edge before sinking ??

Now I’m sort of rethinking my theory that he flung it (like you do a boomerang, or possibly even a football ) from the car into the dam, but it fell short of the midddle!
But I just can’t see him getting out of the car, the time needed is too risky; depending on which way he was driving, i feel its an easy Vear to the other side of the road, and fling it over …. or do a ‘uey’ up further to come back …

Who knows, and I expect that time will eventually tell all.

 

[Catch]

Yep, agree re the proximity & visibility from the road, and agree it could quickly come to one’s mind as a perfect place to dispose of something that one doesn’t want found.
However, I’m not convinced that where it was found equates to someone having walked to said dam & chucking it in. I think if that happened it would’ve surely landed in the middle of the dam. . and given we’re talking about a decent sized phone, in a case that was holding credit cards etc ( imo that’s what they meant by ‘other items’ btw ) - there was some weight involved so I expect it would’ve sunk.
Or, did POS have that same expectation, but instead, it floated out toward the edge before sinking ??

Now I’m sort of rethinking my theory that he flung it (like you do a boomerang, or possibly even a football ) from the car into the dam, but it fell short of the midddle!
But I just can’t see him getting out of the car, the time needed is too risky; depending on which way he was driving, i feel its an easy Vear to the other side of the road, and fling it over …. or do a ‘uey’ up further to come back …

Who knows, and I expect that time will eventually tell all.

It doesn't seem a lot of hard work in hiding her phone, she even had all her cards etc in there etc. In a private dam, but finding her body is becoming quite difficult when so much searching has been carried out. Has he had a helping hand ?

 

[shorsky]

If he is found guilty of murder, even circumstantially, and he has not disclosed the whereabouts of the body, it's the Maximum Sentence, in the vicinity of 35 years! Again, the Police have dismissed the 'accident' theory, and you may not remember that particular day but it was 30 degrees by 9 am, it was a stinker that day, hardly anyone out due to the heat that was building. And if you know Ballarat, no one gets out of bed before 8 am on ANY Sunday!! It's just not a common running route either, that would be Lake Wendouree!

Hi ‘Dirty Deeds’ ( I feel a bit rude addressing you such ) agree re the potential sentencing impacts - no body no parole - but perhaps he’s got plenty of time yet to come clean on that. As distressing as it is for Sam’s family, I expect the lawyer for POS (if he has one) is advising to say nothing until they get the brief of evidence at least. For a 22 year old, he certainly seems to display huge resilience on this occasion.

However, I’m interested to hear your thoughts & theory, given your local knowledge. e.g.

Do you know POS?
Do you know anyone who knows him?
Is he someone who / whose reputation you’ve previously been aware of ?
Do you know anyone where he’s done work / worked with him ?
Do you know of his relationship with his family members ?
Was there perhaps conflict due to ‘big nights out’ / late for work etc. ?

Similarly, re Samantha ?

We heard of restraining orders, within the family or against external parties ?
If external - grounds for ?

I’m not trying to be a rumour monger ( and most everyone has stuff they don’t want made public ) but I’m trying to get my head around reasons for what seems the most inexplicable of appallingly sad situations. Mind you, I’m sure the police have all these answers & more - sadly they’re just not sharing with me

 

[shorsky]

Phone calls (as in voice recordings) do not exist unless the phone is on intercept beforehand. Records of outgoing calls are available from the phone company (don't need the phone). Lists of calls received would be on the phone.
The contents of text messages sent and received would be on the phone (possibly also in the cloud). Lists of text messages sent (not the text) are available from the phone company.
Instant messages may or may not be on the phone, and may or may not be retrievable from the cloud, depending on what app is used, and whether it was backed up or not.

Of course the same could be done with POS phone and other devices. And results could be cross-referenced.

In short, prior contact could possibly be confirmed, but not definitely ruled out.

Perpetrator fingerprints ?
Blood, body fluids, hair or tissue from either ?

 

[shorsky]

My point of view re the phone being discovered in the dam is, in his panicked frame of mind he became quite careless, and he had not realized the phone was in his vehicle and then took immediate action to get rid of the phone, and in choosing the dam, he had hoped the water would have destroyed any data held on the phone and stopped it from 'pinging'.

To stop it ‘pinging’ he only needed to turn it Off

 

[thumbs_up]

There is plenty on reddit. Someone on there has some inside knowledge, you can tell by what they are saying they know stuff. I won't publish on here, and I hope the police are looking at it as well and it doesn't get deleted

The Reddit forums are insane and unhinged. I'm glad this thread is moderated.

 

[shorsky]

Monitoring is not the same as permanently logging them for subsequent analysis by folks such as law enforcement.

I haven’t worked in Telco for a long time, but I think the logs can be obtained

 

[shorsky]

Anyway this is all moot because we know SMs phone has been found within range of the Buninyong tower, so it's consistent with the (possibly unconfirmed) 5pm ping, but still doesn't prove definitively that SM or her phone was in that location at that time. Or POS. And we still don't know where her watch is or where it's been.

If there was a Ping from Sam’s phone from the Buninyong Tower ( 5pm or otherwise ) it says that her phone was in the vicinity at the time of the Ping, and was switched on.

And that interests me, as I’ve stated previously, because Mick said her phone was Off when he tried to ring her that morning.

 

[GrayRanga]

If there was a Ping from Sam’s phone from the Buninyong Tower ( 5pm or otherwise ) it says that her phone was in the vicinity at the time of the Ping, and was switched on.

And that interests me, as I’ve stated previously, because Mick said her phone was Off when he tried to ring her that morning.

Was it off, as in physically turned off and powered down, or had it been placed in something like an aluminium or metal tool box, where any ping eminating from the phone couldn't be picked up by a tower?

As, for all intents and purposes, the phone had disappeared off the network an incoming call would bounce to voice mail as if it was turned off.

Open up the tool box to turf it and the phone's ping can be picked up by a power for a minute or two until it goes under the water and shorts out?