Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[31550]

Well it is is International Women's Day, and broadly speaking, they have more to fear with this sort of thing - men getting murdered are often criminals etc. So fair play to women to speak out about this today of all days.

I mean she just went for a *en run, now women have to second guess whether it is safe to just go for a run.

Maybe we should wait for some evidence that Samantha's death had something to do with her gender before passing judgement on the perpetrator (and his entire gender)?

 

[Kurve]

You didn’t “point it out” you threw a cheap jibe when you could have just moved on.

It makes a lot of difference if you’ve got the runs on the board to engage in friendly banter EG I’m happy to go toe to toe with people I’ve been communicating with years but would rather keep it civil with posters I don’t know.

Your comment was both unnecessary and unwelcome and you are doubling down instead of recognising you were a jerk for no good reason.

Let's move on now thanks Craffles.

 

[annawinter608]

Maybe we should wait for some evidence that Samantha's death had something to do with her gender before passing judgement on the perpetrator (and his entire gender)?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I think it’s an important discussion to have.

Although, I am of the understanding that the vast majority of offenders who commit acts of violence against men and women are men.

Most violent offenders are men when they are only 50% of the population.

Why is that?

I’m also cautious about raising this issue because I get called a man hater etc. Not that name calling bothers me but it derails the conversation.

My friends are predominantly men. I have only sons and only brothers.

Therefore I just cannot accept that men have some inherent defect or weakness that makes them violent.

Most men are not violent, but most violent offenders are men.

We need to find out why.

Sure, there’s some people beyond saving.

But my guess is that some of those violent offenders may not have committed acts of violence if they had been identified as at risk earlier and given appropriate treatment.

Not "man hating" at all - men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of violent crime (98+% in most societies).

 

[kickazz]

Test, Meth, Coke doesn't cause normal men to commit murder.

Old man might have played for the Tigers and Cats back in the day.

It explains the second half of the sentence I responded to, not the first.

 

[webbo_83]

If you're phone pinged within the area of the crime happened. Then they suddenly see your phone switched off during the timeframe of the crime taking place, it's rather suspicious.
Say you switched your phone on back in a different area, they'll calculate how long it would have taken to travel from point a to point b with your phone switched off and see if the data aligns

So I'm guessing they would have had a select list of people. Went back further on their phone records, traced whether he had been pinged at the area where the murders took place previously. Possibly scoping the area out. Or been tracked to be near the deceased's house.

It seems usually the perpetrator has the idea to switch off their phone or leave it at their home during the time of the crime, however, what catches them is when they take their phone with them, scoping out the areas days/weeks/months beforehand

Also, anyone who was in the area would, naturally, have reached out to police to, firstly, tell them, and secondly, let them know if they'd seen anything suspicious. This whole phone ping palaver is a process of elimination at its most simple.

 

[jason_recliner]

I think he covered his tracks somewhat well if it took police 5 weeks, unless they were just trying to get more evidence on him.
It does sound like an opportunistic murder though with police saying he was not known to Samantha.
What scenario happens here, he's out in the bush, see's Samantha and kills her ? Potentially sexual motive ?

It's just all very bizarre

It took police five weeks to arrest him, not to find him.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

OK, so I intend to post something quite counter-cultural and I hope it doesn't attract a swathe of hate....

(and before I do, I of course would like to again acknowledge what happened to a beautiful mum and wife in Samantha Murphy is absolutely abhorrent and my thoughts are with her poor family)

But I've had the radio on in the car all morning (ABC) and there was caller after caller talking about women's safety, how women need to take precautions (and how unfair that women have to and men don't) and multiple people called up "incandescent with rage" about how women were overwhelmingly the victims of homicide (and what will men do to protect the women in their life).

I want to start by saying it is indeed awful that society poses these kinds of dangers and it's a shame that precautions do need to be taken to protect ourselves. HOWEVER, our societal narrative is in fact the inverse of the reality we live in. The overwhelming majority of homicide victims (and victims of violence) in Australia (and right around the world) are in fact MEN. In Australia, more than twice as many men are murdered as women every year (at least 70% of homicide victims are men). In other countries, it is even higher (90% men in the US for example). Some may argue - "that's probably gangs and organised crime - what about murders by strangers" and again, people might be surprised to learn that those who are victims of 'random' murders and 'stranger' murders are also overwhelmingly young men.

I also used to work pre and post release (i.e. from prison) with violent offenders and people may be surprised to learn of the commonality of the 'criminal code' of "I'd never hit a woman" by people that had bashed or killed other men, sometimes for quite trivial reasons.

I'm not saying this for some kind of distasteful "men have it worse" narrative. I say this because the murders of women attract significantly higher media attention, which feeds a narrative that only women need to take precautions in our society and/or that simply having a man with them ensures the safety of all. The truth is, men need to take the same precautions that women do and simply being a man does not offer some kind of protection from harm. So often men are the victims of homicide due to the perception they are immune to the same dangers women face or the perception that they are able to protect themselves (or their loved ones) simply because they are a man.

One last thing I'd like to add is that 'stranger murders', particularly of women, are EXTREMELY RARE in our society (and contrary to popular opinion, are not happening any more regularly than when they peaked in the 70's). The biggest danger to women (by an incredible amount, including for homicide) is still family and partner violence. That issue is a disproportionately gendered one and is the area where women really need to be the most safety conscious and where we as a society need to continue to address the 'gendered' drivers of family violence.

You’ve limited it to murders here.

The fact is that women are assaulted and r*ped far too often. Having travelled extensively I can tell you I (a tall, built guy) very rarely felt unsafe or questioned whether I should cut down an alleyway or dark street at night. Every girl I traveled with would tell you the opposite, and rightfully so.

Guys do get into fights, but normally because they react and escalate. If they just walked away it wouldn’t happen. Very rarely is it a true random coward punch.

Girls don’t have that option if victims of rape/assault

 

[jason_recliner]

I certainly suspected the husband in the early days, because unfortunately it’s an all too familiar story in this country.

I know it sounds weird, but it really isn’t personal when I don’t know the guy.

This is one of many crime forums out there, that do exactly this. Speculate. Try and figure out what the situation is.

Most of us know we are not solving a case, and that we only get a tiny bit of info. Our interest is around how police investigate and solve such crimes and what makes people do such horrendous things.

Most of us will form somewhat of view in the early days, but keep an open mind and change our view as more information comes to light.

Others have a theory and will not let it go no matter what.

I’ve sometimes wondered what I would do if someone I knew or even myself was discussed on these types of pages. I can only imagine how frustrating it might be, so I would probably block the thread so I didn’t have to read it.

It works both ways too. The initial reports of the suspect made me think it was a young country boy who made a terrible mistake by covering up a drink driving accident.

But now my view has changed as more information like the nature of the charges has come to light.

It's one thing to have a view, it's another to publicly accuse and attack grieving partners and parents.

 

[Kurve]

What I don't get is that the judge orders a supression order but the courts still list the accused name in the daily court cases list?

Why don't they list the name as supressed.

I think another poster has explained why that happens but yeh, it can and has caused issues before. We just do the best we can.

 

[Awakening]

Testosterone.

Not being funny but don’t you all have testosterone?

And I’m female but due to a hormone disorder have a high level of testosterone, and apart from that one incident with my dryer I am not prone to acts of violence.

 

[31550]

You’ve limited it to murders here.

The fact is that women are assaulted and r*ped far too often. Having travelled extensively I can tell you I (a tall, built guy) very rarely felt unsafe or questioned whether I should cut down an alleyway or dark street at night. Every girl I traveled with would tell you the opposite, and rightfully so.

Guys do get into fights, but normally because they react and escalate. If they just walked away it wouldn’t happen. Very rarely is it a true random coward punch.

Girls don’t have that option if victims of rape/assault

I acknowledge and agree that statistically it is men who commit these crimes. No argument there.
But when discussing this particular case there is no evidence (yet) that it had anything to do with the victim being female and the perpetrator male.
FFS many were suggesting a hit and run only a few days ago. How is that motivated by gender?
There is definitely in imbalance in gender related to crime, both with victims and perps that society needs to address.
But it is definitely man bashing to jump to the conclusion that this particular case is gender motivated without any evidence other than statistical bias.

 

[Awakening]

There's plenty of data available, including for Australia, the US and UK (which all show similar trends).

IN terms of risks taken - no doubt men take far more risks (and are less confrontation avoidant) than women in public. This is EXACTLY why I posted what I did. The general public perception is that this happens overwhelmingly to women and only women need to take precautions in public. Most women have an awareness of needing to take precautions and most people (neither men nor women) seem to have a sense that men are in any danger, let alone just as much.

We all need to be safety conscious together.

Do you think women are victim blamed more, which is why they take more precautions?

It wasn’t that long ago that rape victims were questioned over their clothing, being out after dark, how much alcohol they consumed.

Male victims are not usually questioned about what they wore or why did they drink so much or why did you walk home alone in the dark.

It seems like it’s a complicated issue.

 

[mrskafoops]

I certainly suspected the husband in the early days, because unfortunately it’s an all too familiar story in this country.

I know it sounds weird, but it really isn’t personal when I don’t know the guy.

This is one of many crime forums out there, that do exactly this. Speculate. Try and figure out what the situation is.

Most of us know we are not solving a case, and that we only get a tiny bit of info. Our interest is around how police investigate and solve such crimes and what makes people do such horrendous things.

Most of us will form somewhat of view in the early days, but keep an open mind and change our view as more information comes to light.

Others have a theory and will not let it go no matter what.

I’ve sometimes wondered what I would do if someone I knew or even myself was discussed on these types of pages. I can only imagine how frustrating it might be, so I would probably block the thread so I didn’t have to read it.

It works both ways too. The initial reports of the suspect made me think it was a young country boy who made a terrible mistake by covering up a drink driving accident.

But now my view has changed as more information like the nature of the charges has come to light.

They’re a lot of theories bobbing around. I read somewhere else something someone in the same doc it all curls wrote and that was that the killer was at a party the night before doing coke and that after Samantha was dead the next day three of his mates helped take care of the body. Doesn’t add up tho. If there were 4 all together the olive would know and be talking to all of them. Being only young one of them would’ve cracked.

 

[Awakening]

It took police five weeks to arrest him, not to find him.

I agree. 5 weeks is very quick for an arrest. Especially if it’s indeed a stranger on stranger crime. I’m guessing the accused hasn’t been that clever.

 

[kickazz]

Not being funny but don’t you all have testosterone?

And I’m female but due to a hormone disorder have a high level of testosterone, and apart from that incident with my dryer are not prone to acts of violence.

Yes all men have testosterone, and women do too but in much smaller quantities.

As an advanced species most of us are not prone to acts of violence. For those who are, testosterone is a big factor.

Before learning right from wrong, very young boys are more violent/aggressive than very young girls.

(Male) magpies swoop in spring because they have elevated level of testosterone at that time of the year.

Testosterone explains why most violence is by men, not that most men are not violent. An important logical difference.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Haha maybe I've just watched too much Line of Duty - every time a cop did something dodgy they turned their phone off, and they were always questioned about it during investigation.

Makes sense to me: I would have thought if someone wanted to commit a crime like that, leaving your phone off would be a better option than leaving it on (and in your pocket), but it does present a pretty serious question if there's already other evidence pointing to them. They wouldn't be convicted on that alone, but it'd be a hell of a coincidence that would be brought up before the jury in a trial.

I don't know about other people but I don't reckon I've had a phone run out of battery on me more than a couple of times ever. And I can't really recall physically turning my phone off as a routine, apart from if I'm flying.

I think it's along a similar line of the hardened criminal approach of stonewalling any questions about a serious crime with a "no comment" response when they're brought in for an interview. It's probably the legally advisable thing to do in a lot of instances, it's not evidence that that person has done anything wrong, but it's certainly not the approach of someone who's trying to clear their name as quickly as possible.

 

[BFew]

Back to the future

 

[Awakening]

It's one thing to have a view, it's another to publicly accuse and attack grieving partners and parents.

100%. I do try and be mindful of that and make it clear that I don’t know the person or the facts of the case and that there’s a difference between suspecting someone to accusing someone.

But even now there are people online still convinced the husband did it, so there’s always that element.

 

[BFew]

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

You didn’t “point it out” you threw a cheap jibe when you could have just moved on.

It makes a lot of difference if you’ve got the runs on the board to engage in friendly banter EG I’m happy to go toe to toe with people I’ve been communicating with years but would rather keep it civil with posters I don’t know.

Your comment was both unnecessary and unwelcome and you are doubling down instead of recognising you were a jerk for no good reason.

Have a sook.

Of course the police have information they haven't released to the public.

 

[Tony Harrison]

Not being funny but don’t you all have testosterone?

And I’m female but due to a hormone disorder have a high level of testosterone, and apart from that incident with my dryer are not prone to acts of violence.

Lots of people drink, not all are violent.
Not all “insert drug here” heads are violent.

It’s just part of the possible attribution and a differentiating factor between men and women

 

[jason_recliner]

OK, so I intend to post something quite counter-cultural and I hope it doesn't attract a swathe of hate....

(and before I do, I of course would like to again acknowledge what happened to a beautiful mum and wife in Samantha Murphy is absolutely abhorrent and my thoughts are with her poor family)

But I've had the radio on in the car all morning (ABC) and there was caller after caller talking about women's safety, how women need to take precautions (and how unfair that women have to and men don't) and multiple people called up "incandescent with rage" about how women were overwhelmingly the victims of homicide (and what will men do to protect the women in their life).

I want to start by saying it is indeed awful that society poses these kinds of dangers and it's a shame that precautions do need to be taken to protect ourselves. HOWEVER, our societal narrative is in fact the inverse of the reality we live in. The overwhelming majority of homicide victims (and victims of violence) in Australia (and right around the world) are in fact MEN. In Australia, more than twice as many men are murdered as women every year (at least 70% of homicide victims are men). In other countries, it is even higher (90% men in the US for example). Some may argue - "that's probably gangs and organised crime - what about murders by strangers" and again, people might be surprised to learn that those who are victims of 'random' murders and 'stranger' murders are also overwhelmingly young men.

I also used to work pre and post release (i.e. from prison) with violent offenders and people may be surprised to learn of the commonality of the 'criminal code' of "I'd never hit a woman" by people that had bashed or killed other men, sometimes for quite trivial reasons.

I'm not saying this for some kind of distasteful "men have it worse" narrative. I say this because the murders of women attract significantly higher media attention, which feeds a narrative that only women need to take precautions in our society and/or that simply having a man with them ensures the safety of all. The truth is, men need to take the same precautions that women do and simply being a man does not offer some kind of protection from harm. So often men are the victims of homicide due to the perception they are immune to the same dangers women face or the perception that they are able to protect themselves (or their loved ones) simply because they are a man.

One last thing I'd like to add is that 'stranger murders', particularly of women, are EXTREMELY RARE in our society (and contrary to popular opinion, are not happening any more regularly than when they peaked in the 70's). The biggest danger to women (by an incredible amount, including for homicide) is still family and partner violence. That issue is a disproportionately gendered one and is the area where women really need to be the most safety conscious and where we as a society need to continue to address the 'gendered' drivers of family violence.

The difference is that many men are killed because of their lifestyle and personal choices. Usually drugs.

 

[Awakening]

Back to the future

I would still prefer not to use his full name.

I think his initials would work.

POS.

 

[Tony Harrison]

There was evidence coming out within the week that linked him to the murder lol

Nothing of the sort in this case. All fairly obvious stuff

I just found it rather odd that you’d use an example that took 10 months for a murder charge to say it would be wrapped up in a week or so, vs this case that has a murder charge in a month haha