Scott Welsh leaving

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Re: Welsh gone

crow87 said:
Obviously as far as "goal nous" goes, Welsh is miles ahead but Kenny is clever for a big bloke and a good solid mark. It is well within his bounds to average just over 2 goals a game to break the 50 goal barrier you mentioned above. No doubt that as far as talent goes, Welsh leaves him behind but for application... Plus Kenny kicks them when they matter, not like the cheap ones typically scored by Welsh either in a thrashing, against weak defence or when it falls in his hands.
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So Kenny kicks them when we need them right?! :rolleyes:

In you next post you mention Hawthorn final. Kenny had 4 goals before half time in that game but when we were crying out for a forward in the 2nd half he was no where to be seen.

I hate it when posters like you bag Welsh for his apparent lack of work production against good teams and in games that matter then bring in the Kenny's game Vs Hawks as an argument and conviniently ignore the facts in that game. Kenny was great in the 1st half but as soon as Hawks adjusted and put a tighter defender on him he was no where to be seen. But hey, lets not let the facts get in a way of a good old-fashioned slagging match ;)
 
Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Crow-mo said:
again, this is very much along the lines that I am thinking.

just a hypothetical... no basis to this other than pure supposition:

all these people agreeing with the clubs decision to take a very hard line; suppose, just suppose there is a bit of behind the scenes conflict over these moves, and in a few months - JR is forced or leaves (I'm not saying this will or should happen). The club starts to distance itself from these actions, as JR's decision, and the new guy and the club announce that they see a more unified, supportive culture as the one they aspire to.

in that situation, which i neither believe will happen, nor do I believe is impossible either, do we all stand by those decisions or do we lament JR's autocracy as damaging the club?

things change quicky, how this whole period gets written into history is not certain just yet. It's the right thing to do, until somebody new steps in and says it wasn't the right thing to do. all very illusory if you ask me.
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I am not sure that JR makes these decisions "autocratically". He may think he's in a position of power but he really is just a mouth piece on legs. These decisions would have been made "by those that count". I personally think it's the right decision. Just as Welsh is right to try and protect himself and his future, Adelaide is right in protecting themselves and their future. For me, Adelaide's future is more important than Welsh's.
 
Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

jenny61_99 said:
I am not sure that JR makes these decisions "autocratically". He may think he's in a position of power but he really is just a mouth piece on legs. These decisions would have been made "by those that count". I personally think it's the right decision. Just as Welsh is right to try and protect himself and his future, Adelaide is right in protecting themselves and their future.
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I believe your right there. I cannot for a moment believe he has so much power that the coaching panel and the CEO wouldn't be involved in.

jenny61_99 said:
For me, Adelaide's future is more important than Welsh's.
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Right again, however I think most here believe it's the process and the agenda that is the problem.
 

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Anyway you care to look at it, Welsh was not going to be with the crows from 2009 onwards. He wasn't going to be a part of our next premiership group.

His premature departure leaves a gap in the forward line in 2008, hopefully one of the youngsters will step up to fill the gap (my money being on Tippett).

How will JR's legacy be remembered? Good question. I don't think there will be too many regrets over his handling of the Welsh affair though - sounds like he has Neil Craig's support (comments along the lines of Welsh not coming on board the Craig program). They're only releasing Welsh one year ahead of schedule, so it's not like we're losing a player with a 5-10 year future.
 
Asgardian said:
Crows are fast to remove a bloke from their web site's players list
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A far cry from how long it took them to add last year's draftees to the website.

Maybe someone took notice after the bollocking the AFL & BigPond copped when they all changed to the new format in the middle of the year.
 
Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Kane McGoodwin said:
I think people are under-estimating how much we would miss Welsh if he left. He led our goal-kicking being played mostly out of position (should be a flanker).

If true, I'm sick of these Melbourne teams poaching other team players. Time to give them taste of their own medicine. eg. Offer Gibbs or Griffen a big contract to leave.
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Griffen will never leave s the Bulldogs and will win a brownlow by 2009.:p
 
Capitalist said:
you can't be serious, right ?
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i know his has played a shitload of footy at full forward for you guys - but i was always under the impression that was because you had a lack of genuine full forwards as an option

what i mean is -what is his natural position ideally? would it be as a leading pocket player - or a leading HFF? he seems to have been played slightly out of position with the crows - as he has spent a lot of time at FF and CHF where genuinely blokes his height don't fill those positions

i already have a fair idea of the way he plays - just more interested in knowing where Adelaide supporters see him playing his best footy ideally.
 
astro_toby said:
i know his has played a shitload of footy at full forward for you guys - but i was always under the impression that was because you had a lack of genuine full forwards as an option

what i mean is -what is his natural position ideally? would it be as a leading pocket player - or a leading HFF? he seems to have been played slightly out of position with the crows - as he has spent a lot of time at FF and CHF where genuinely blokes his height don't fill those positions

i already have a fair idea of the way he plays - just more interested in knowing where Adelaide supporters see him playing his best footy ideally.
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Seems a few know the way he plays.
 

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Re: Welsh gone

Stiffy_18 said:
So Kenny kicks them when we need them right?! :rolleyes:

In you next post you mention Hawthorn final. Kenny had 4 goals before half time in that game but when we were crying out for a forward in the 2nd half he was no where to be seen.

I hate it when posters like you bag Welsh for his apparent lack of work production against good teams and in games that matter then bring in the Kenny's game Vs Hawks as an argument and conviniently ignore the facts in that game. Kenny was great in the 1st half but as soon as Hawks adjusted and put a tighter defender on him he was no where to be seen. But hey, lets not let the facts get in a way of a good old-fashioned slagging match ;)
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Indeed ;). Oh, and it wasnt me that mentioned the Hawks game, that was Farmy. As far as that match goes, yes Ken kicked four goals up to half time. Dont forget that this forced Clarkson to move a better defender onto McGregor, freeing up Welsh to come into the game in the second half. Yes Welsh kicked 4, but how many other times has he stood up when it counted? The fact is most of his goals come in easy matches. Against the kangaroos he kicked four when the game was over and his defender either fell over or he ran into an open goal. No doubt you're off to finalsiren.com at this very second to run a search but the bottom line is this, both McGregor and Welsh were chances to leave at the end of this year right? We are better off with Kenny staying at the club, and we are better off with Welsh leaving. End of story.
 
Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Markthirtytwo said:
Right again, however I think most here believe it's the process and the agenda that is the problem.
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Absolutely spot on!

My beef is not that Welsh is gone, my beef is with the underhanded, slime amateurish tactics that the club used in negotiations. There is nothing wrong with saying, listen Welshy, we see you as a 1 year proposition for us. We would really like you to stay and we are offering you such and such money and we would want you to do such and such. We understand if you want to look at other clubs for security! That would have been an honorable way of handling it.

The way it has been done is something that I really can't stomach. I hate these slime tactics and if those tactics were used against me I would not hesitate one second to tell them just where to stick it and I sure as hell wouldn't be civil about it.

To try and short change Welsh in the negotiations by making false promises without any intention of keeping them, and then when he doesn't settle for your terms you issue a press release having digs at Scotty, thats just poor form.

Once upon a time this club had class and dignity. They even displayed that class when they were ruthless just like all good clubs should but the episode with Welsh lacks class and dignity from our part and I sure as hell don't like it.

I don't disagree with the decision but I strongly disagree with the way its been handled.
 
Re: Welsh gone

crow87 said:
Indeed ;). Oh, and it wasnt me that mentioned the Hawks game, that was Farmy. As far as that match goes, yes Ken kicked four goals up to half time. Dont forget that this forced Clarkson to move a better defender onto McGregor, freeing up Welsh to come into the game in the second half. Yes Welsh kicked 4, but how many other times has he stood up when it counted? The fact is most of his goals come in easy matches. Against the kangaroos he kicked four when the game was over and his defender either fell over or he ran into an open goal. No doubt you're off to finalsiren.com at this very second to run a search but the bottom line is this, both McGregor and Welsh were chances to leave at the end of this year right? We are better off with Kenny staying at the club, and we are better off with Welsh leaving. End of story.
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In your opinion that is very much tainted with the love for Kenny. I prefer both of them to have stayed because in the short term we are not better off with Welsh leaving. We would have been better off with him staying. In the long run, I think we will be better off without both. Kenny has declined rapidly in the last 2 seasons and its only a shadow of a player that was in 2005.
 
Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Stiffy_18 said:
Absolutely spot on!

My beef is not that Welsh is gone, my beef is with the underhanded, slime amateurish tactics that the club used in negotiations. There is nothing wrong with saying, listen Welshy, we see you as a 1 year proposition for us. We would really like you to stay and we are offering you such and such money and we would want you to do such and such. We understand if you want to look at other clubs for security! That would have been an honorable way of handling it.

The way it has been done is something that I really can't stomach. I hate these slime tactics and if those tactics were used against me I would not hesitate one second to tell them just where to stick it and I sure as hell wouldn't be civil about it.

To try and short change Welsh in the negotiations by making false promises without any intention of keeping them, and then when he doesn't settle for your terms you issue a press release having digs at Scotty, thats just poor form.

Once upon a time this club had class and dignity. They even displayed that class when they were ruthless just like all good clubs should but the episode with Welsh lacks class and dignity from our part and I sure as hell don't like it.

I don't disagree with the decision but I strongly disagree with the way its been handled.
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Well said.

And on the McGregor case I think we would have been better off without him. He has well and truly passed it and IMO is not up to the level of AFL football anymmore. Reminds me a bit of Lance Whitnall, has football smarts but his body is just not right for the game anymore.

If in one fo the arguments one had to go, we would have been better with Welsh staying. Welsh has a lot more flexibility and would have the option of playing different positions. As I see it Kenny will have to play very deep and stay there and try to pull in contested grabs. He is also a player that is more likely to stand in the way of one of the younsgters as the young talls we have coming up are talls, Welsh has the ability to play small as well.

I am actually a little disappointed no clubs were interested in Kenny. I no longer see very much value in him.
 
Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

crowman_23 said:
Well said.

And on the McGregor case I think we would have been better off without him. He has well and truly passed it and IMO is not up to the level of AFL football anymmore. Reminds me a bit of Lance Whitnall, has football smarts but his body is just not right for the game anymore.

If in one fo the arguments one had to go, we would have been better with Welsh staying. Welsh has a lot more flexibility and would have the option of playing different positions. As I see it Kenny will have to play very deep and stay there and try to pull in contested grabs. He is also a player that is more likely to stand in the way of one of the younsgters as the young talls we have coming up are talls, Welsh has the ability to play small as well.

I am actually a little disappointed no clubs were interested in Kenny. I no longer see very much value in him.
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Im sorry, I'll admit that there is some truth in most of what you have said, and in what stiffy is saying, but as for the part in bold, are you serious? If so are you on drugs?
 
Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Stiffy_18 said:
...if those tactics were used against me I would not hesitate one second to tell them just where to stick it and I sure as hell wouldn't be civil about it.
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Stiffy_18 said:
Once upon a time this club had class and dignity. They even displayed that class when they were ruthless just like all good clubs should but the episode with Welsh lacks class and dignity from our part and I sure as hell don't like it.
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:confused:
 
Re: Welsh gone

Stiffy_18 said:
In your opinion that is very much tainted with the love for Kenny. I prefer both of them to have stayed because in the short term we are not better off with Welsh leaving. We would have been better off with him staying. In the long run, I think we will be better off without both. Kenny has declined rapidly in the last 2 seasons and its only a shadow of a player that was in 2005.
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:D Probably true, but of course I am only human arent I?

In the short term, we would have been better off seeing the back of Welsh if we could have gotten something-anything for him. As it is, losing him for nothing, we are obviously worse off in terms of on-field. Regarding club culture, who is to say but my overriding feeling is that we're better off without Scotty in that respect.
Long term we are better off without him because it allows someone else to have a crack.

Re Kenny I think we are better off both in the short and long term with him in the side. Short term he offers a real option up forward to kick 40-50 goals when fit, with the flexibility to go down back and play well on a KP forward. Its obvious that the past year or so, McGregor has struggled with injuries so long term he's only going to get better.
 
When you consider that McGregor's best ever season (2005) resulted in only 31 goals, only twice has he kicked more than 20 (21 in 2006), it's asking a fair bit to expect him to become a 40-50 goal forward.

Welsh on the other hand had a PB of 58 goals in a season (2005) and kicked 40+ in 2000, 2005 & 2007.

It's safe to say that we're losing a reasonable ammount of our forward firepower. McGregor will not, and is not capable of, kicking the number of goals Welsh does in an average season.

It's also safe to say that McGregor has spent a reasonable number of games playing at CHB, which would have an impact on his goal scoring rate.
 
My point is that 40/22 = 1.8 goals per game, which given the right opportunity is well within the grasp of number 16. 50 at just over 2 goals per game is very achievable for him too. McGregor has never been played consistantly in the forward line at the crows. Makes it very hard to rack up a total, and its unfair to compare him to someone who has an opportunity to add to the total every week.
 

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