Unofficial Preview SEASON 2025 - Best 22, Game Plan, Personnel

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So what is your point , is it about Bice/Paton ?
Yes. Last few posts in this thread were discussing whether Bice/Paton were drafted to play straight away. I feel the club prefers to have defensive depth. And we just don't know in which area we will have injury issues.
 
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Do you think we'd drop Blakey for Bice?

I’d actually entertain Blakey playing off a wing if it means putting Bice in to be honest. Blakey’s turnovers drive me insane and they are beyond comical. Marybe the idea is Lloyd goes out with Blakey shifting up Bice into that HBF. For me personally he’s in the side first round
 

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I feel it is too early to tell. When they get back from Christmas break. They will still have 2 months before opening round.

I think Bice/Paton would be in the group of players on the fringes looking to have a strong pre-season and try to impress in the GWS and Gold Coast friendly games.
 
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I feel it is too early to tell.

I think Bice/Paton would be in the group of players on the fringes looking to have a strong pre-season and try to impress in the GWS and Gold Coast friendly games.
I hope that the non-regulars who make an impression in those games will be Edwards, Snell, Bice, Paton, Campbell, Mitchell, Warner, Sheldrick, Cleary, Hanily and Buller. Not concerned about Francis, Hamling, Ladhams, Green, Kirk or the other newbies. That group though could demonstrate us to have good depth and push for game time. Francis and Ladhams are proven fill-ins.
 
Roberts is training in defence again. There's no plans to move him into the midfield at this stage. He could continue to improve with another pre-season under his belt, and with Wicks also now a mature, if not experienced, option in the defensive picture, it'd be bold to assume that Bice & Paton will be in the 22 just because we recruited them as mature-agers. I think they can certainly put themselves in the frame, along with about half a dozen others in defence, and I think that can only be a good thing if it means we can select on form.
 
It’d be unreasonable to expect a 19 year old ruck to be ready for AFL just yet - but I’d really like to see Green show plenty in the VFL this year.

Grundy might have one or two more good seasons in him. But the end is approaching.
Ladhams clearly has been gifted the physique and skills to be a very good ruck, just not the temperament (?yet). He is reaching the age that many rucks peak and is in the final of his contract. 2025 is the year he either makes it or has his papers stamped.
 
Thought I'd have a 1st attempt at a R0 team:

B: Snell McCartin Melican
HB: Roberts Blakey Bice
C: Mills Rowbottom Gulden
HF: Cleary Jordon Florent
F: Papley McDonald Hayward
R: Grundy Heeney Warner

I/C: Sheldrick McInerney McLean Lloyd Rampe Cunningham (can't decide on 5, so have named 6, for now)

E: Campbell Amartey Fox

From the GF team:

IN:
Mills
Sheldrick
Cleary
Snell
Bice

OUT:
Parker
Fox
Amartey
Campbell

I moved Ramps to the bench or as sub; reason being is if this is likely his final year, I think they might manage him and could even rotate him, Harry and Fox in and out of the team to manage all 3, and still use his experience off the bench or as sub if need be. Like when Mills was injured and was assisting off the bench.

Keeping McCartin in defence for now, Amartey being the forward to miss out to start.
 
Logan to my mind is the one that really needs to stand up. Being a link up player while not taking strong contested marks, means he is basically playing like a less agile and less fit winger who happens to be tall. He also hesitated too often for my liking while entering the 50.

I know some on here hate it, but he really does seem to have the mindset of a defender to me. I think defence also plays to his strengths (good field kick, relatively athletic for a tall, reads the play well, etc) and away from his weakness (not a strong contested mark, not a demanding presence, doesn’t crash packs).
He takes no contested marks, can't even go the punch in a contest he knows he is late to, he can't possibly be a defender. Didn't it take him till like round 14 to take ONE contested mark last year?
Though I agree on the rest of what you've said. He's a wing/med forward in a KPF's body. We likely just have to accept that's all he'll be unless something radical changes in his mindset and positioning.
 

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He takes no contested marks, can't even go the punch in a contest he knows he is late to, he can't possibly be a defender. Didn't it take him till like round 14 to take ONE contested mark last year?
Though I agree on the rest of what you've said. He's a wing/med forward in a KPF's body. We likely just have to accept that's all he'll be unless something radical changes in his mindset and positioning.
1 punch will be enough
 
LONG POST INCOMING

I caught up with a mate last night who is a Lions fan, it was our first chance to talk about the GF since. He made an interesting point that got me thinking (I know, that rarely leads to anything constructive!)

My mate thought Brisbane had only a few players with performances that could be considered anything close to 'career-best.' But he thought hardly any were poor, either.

He said that the reverse scenario seems to be true for us in grand finals, and that that is half our problem. We didn't need Heeney, McInerney, Warner, Papley, Rampe, Gulden, Lloyd, McCartin, Hayward etc. to have amazing, career-best games to win a grand final. We just needed them to not be putrid.

It got me thinking about guys like Rowbottom & Fox, neither of whom I think had games that could be considered their 'best', nor were they mind-blowingly dominant or anything. But if 20 others had showed up like they did, well it could've been a very different game.

Weirdly it filled me with a bit of hope going forward, because it feels like a very low bar that we can realistically quite easily pass if and when we are in a grand final again. If our players aren't having the best game of their lives, just don't panic, keep trying, find ways to impact and contribute positively. All those names I mentioned only going at say 75% rather than 100% is still good and capable of doing plenty of damage.

Instead we seem to get into this mentality of 'oh no I shanked my first kick of the game' or 'geez I just can't get a touch here', or 'oh shit I just lost a 1v1, I'm gonna get reamed for that', and it spirals from there. And I just don't think it needs to be like that.

So just from the outside looking in, I think something we could focus on with our players is for each of them to find alternative ways to impact positively. Take the two I mentioned. In the GF Rowbottom had a quiet game tackling-wise, just the four for the day. But instead of dropping his bundle over a few missed tackles, he found other ways. Won a stack of hard balls and was our best (and arguably only) clearance player on the day, and also kicked a massive goal when the game was still on. And it might've been helpful if Fox could do an effective job nullifying one of Brisbane's many weapons like we know he can. But when that wasn't happening for him, he just decided to push up around the contest and take the unusual role of winning his own ball more instead.

I think having more players willing & capable of doing this is so important to staying in a game even when things aren't going our way. Waiting for the momentum to swing to us and the terms of the game to suit us is what I think got us in trouble all year, and the GF was the one occasion where the pressure is simply too insurmountable to wait and make our great escape. We've got to be able to meet the terms of the game head-on and adapt.

So hopefully Dean Cox is being very forward and confronting each and every one of our players with the question of when your plan A isn't working, what are you gonna do?
 
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LONG POST INCOMING

I caught up with a mate last night who is a Lions fan, it was our first chance to talk about the GF since. He made an interesting point that got me thinking (I know, that rarely leads to anything constructive!)

My mate thought Brisbane had only a few players with performances that could be considered anything close to 'career-best.' But he thought hardly any were poor, either.

He said that the reverse scenario seems to be true for us in grand finals, and that that is half our problem. We didn't need Heeney, McInerney, Warner, Papley, Rampe, Gulden, Lloyd, McCartin, Hayward etc. to have amazing, career-best games to win a grand final. We just needed them to not be putrid.

It got me thinking about guys like Rowbottom & Fox, neither of whom I think had games that could be considered their 'best', nor were they mind-blowingly dominant or anything. But if 20 others had showed up like they did, well it could've been a very different game.

Weirdly it filled me with a bit of hope going forward, because it feels like a very low bar that we can realistically quite easily pass if and when we are in a grand final again. If our players aren't having the best game of their lives, just don't panic, keep trying, find ways to impact and contribute positively. All those names I mentioned only going at say 75% rather than 100% is still good and capable of doing plenty of damage.

Instead we seem to get into this mentality of 'oh no I shanked my first kick of the game' or 'geez I just can't get a touch here', or 'oh shit I just lost a 1v1, I'm gonna get reamed for that', and it spirals from there. And I just don't think it needs to be like that.

So just from the outside looking in, I think something we could focus on with our players is for each of them to find alternative ways to impact positively. Take the two I mentioned. In the GF Rowbottom had a quiet game tackling-wise, just the four for the day. But instead of dropping his bundle over a few missed tackles, he found other ways. Won a stack of hard balls and was our best (and arguably only) clearance player on the day, and also kicked a massive goal when the game was still on. And it might've been helpful if Fox could do an effective job nullifying one of Brisbane's many weapons like we know he can. But when that wasn't happening for him, he just decided to push up around the contest and take the unusual role of winning his own ball more instead.

I think having more players willing & capable of doing this is so important to staying in a game even when things aren't going our way. Waiting for the momentum to swing to us and the terms of the game to suit us is what I think got us in trouble all year, and the GF was the one occasion where the pressure is simply too insurmountable to wait and make our great escape. We've got to be able to meet the terms of the game head-on and adapt.

So hopefully Dean Cox is being very forward and confronting each and every one of our players with the question of when your plan A isn't working, what are you gonna do?
Playing their best footy in a GF is fairly rare (Dusty a notable exception) but if you think back to 2012 a lot of what you remember is stuff like Hanneberry's brave mark, Mattner's gut run, Morton's win of the ball leading to KJ's goal and so on. The best goal IMO was the one that started with AJ and finished with Reid. Spine tingler but not individually brilliant.
The one GF I played in I found out afterwards I doubled my normal tackle count. Had no idea at the time, just tackled everything I could get to.
So I think there's something in what you say.
 
Ladhams clearly has been gifted the physique and skills to be a very good ruck, just not the temperament (?yet). He is reaching the age that many rucks peak and is in the final of his contract. 2025 is the year he either makes it or has his papers stamped.
Big chance he will be offered one more year to cover the gap between Grundy and Green as long as he doesn't make a complete goose of himself.
 
B: Rampe - Melican - Blakey HB: Robert’s - McDonald - Lloyd C: Gulden - Warner - Florent HF: Haywood - McCartin - Jordan F: Papley - Amartey - Campbell FOLL : Grundy - Heeney - Rowbottom INT: Mills - Sheldrick - Mcinerney - Adam’s
 
B: Rampe - Melican - Blakey HB: Robert’s - McDonald - Lloyd C: Gulden - Warner - Florent HF: Haywood - McCartin - Jordan F: Papley - Amartey - Campbell FOLL : Grundy - Heeney - Rowbottom INT: Mills - Sheldrick - Mcinerney - Adam’s
I have grave doubts about McCartin playing as a forward.
We all know that he is maybe only one concussion away from not playing again.
Anyone who thinks that he will not be regularly wacked in the head from defenders claiming that they were really trying to hit the ball has no idea of what it's like to play as a key forward.
We need him doing the wacking, not being wacked.
 
I have grave doubts about McCartin playing as a forward.
We all know that he is maybe only one concussion away from not playing again.
Anyone who thinks that he will not be regularly wacked in the head from defenders claiming that they were really trying to hit the ball has no idea of what it's like to play as a key forward.
We need him doing the wacking, not being wacked.
This is a real concern. Tom is a better mark and is much better at ground level than all three of the current tall forwards but also it might be too much robbing Peter. I still like the idea of Edwards (or Snell but see that as less likely) progressing and allowing Tom to play the interceptor role and Blakey to play loose.
 
LONG POST INCOMING

I caught up with a mate last night who is a Lions fan, it was our first chance to talk about the GF since. He made an interesting point that got me thinking (I know, that rarely leads to anything constructive!)

My mate thought Brisbane had only a few players with performances that could be considered anything close to 'career-best.' But he thought hardly any were poor, either.

He said that the reverse scenario seems to be true for us in grand finals, and that that is half our problem. We didn't need Heeney, McInerney, Warner, Papley, Rampe, Gulden, Lloyd, McCartin, Hayward etc. to have amazing, career-best games to win a grand final. We just needed them to not be putrid.

It got me thinking about guys like Rowbottom & Fox, neither of whom I think had games that could be considered their 'best', nor were they mind-blowingly dominant or anything. But if 20 others had showed up like they did, well it could've been a very different game.

Weirdly it filled me with a bit of hope going forward, because it feels like a very low bar that we can realistically quite easily pass if and when we are in a grand final again. If our players aren't having the best game of their lives, just don't panic, keep trying, find ways to impact and contribute positively. All those names I mentioned only going at say 75% rather than 100% is still good and capable of doing plenty of damage.

Instead we seem to get into this mentality of 'oh no I shanked my first kick of the game' or 'geez I just can't get a touch here', or 'oh shit I just lost a 1v1, I'm gonna get reamed for that', and it spirals from there. And I just don't think it needs to be like that.

So just from the outside looking in, I think something we could focus on with our players is for each of them to find alternative ways to impact positively. Take the two I mentioned. In the GF Rowbottom had a quiet game tackling-wise, just the four for the day. But instead of dropping his bundle over a few missed tackles, he found other ways. Won a stack of hard balls and was our best (and arguably only) clearance player on the day, and also kicked a massive goal when the game was still on. And it might've been helpful if Fox could do an effective job nullifying one of Brisbane's many weapons like we know he can. But when that wasn't happening for him, he just decided to push up around the contest and take the unusual role of winning his own ball more instead.

I think having more players willing & capable of doing this is so important to staying in a game even when things aren't going our way. Waiting for the momentum to swing to us and the terms of the game to suit us is what I think got us in trouble all year, and the GF was the one occasion where the pressure is simply too insurmountable to wait and make our great escape. We've got to be able to meet the terms of the game head-on and adapt.

So hopefully Dean Cox is being very forward and confronting each and every one of our players with the question of when your plan A isn't working, what are you gonna do?

They played better in that round 18 or whatever game it was at the Gabba, we were magnitudes worse than that performance.
 
My view:

How many (if any) of our 19-21 year olds emerge as high-calibre AFL players will be critical this year.

A number of our senior warriors are in inevitable decline & it’s hard to see us maintaining our position if at least 1-2 youngsters don’t emerge.

Who could it be?

I have high hopes for Sheldrick, Snell and Cleary.

If none of them “emerge” in 2025, I fear we’ll regress.

Note I haven’t included Corey, Sid, Edwards or Hanily in the aforementioned list. I just haven’t yet seen enough to convince me that any of them are likely. Here’s hoping I’m wrong.

Bice is a complete mystery.

The 18 year olds and Green will take time.

Roberts, Logan and Campbell need to kick on too. They can’t stagnate.
 
My view:

How many (if any) of our 19-21 year olds emerge as high-calibre AFL players will be critical this year.

A number of our senior warriors are in inevitable decline & it’s hard to see us maintaining our position if at least 1-2 youngsters don’t emerge.
Agreed.
We have seen a fair bit of Corey and Sid to have a decent idea of their ceilings. I don't see either as replacement for stars.
The others we don't know yet whether through injury (Sheldrick) or lack of exposure at senior level (the rest). 🤞🤞🤞
 
LONG POST INCOMING

I caught up with a mate last night who is a Lions fan, it was our first chance to talk about the GF since. He made an interesting point that got me thinking (I know, that rarely leads to anything constructive!)

My mate thought Brisbane had only a few players with performances that could be considered anything close to 'career-best.' But he thought hardly any were poor, either.

He said that the reverse scenario seems to be true for us in grand finals, and that that is half our problem. We didn't need Heeney, McInerney, Warner, Papley, Rampe, Gulden, Lloyd, McCartin, Hayward etc. to have amazing, career-best games to win a grand final. We just needed them to not be putrid.

It got me thinking about guys like Rowbottom & Fox, neither of whom I think had games that could be considered their 'best', nor were they mind-blowingly dominant or anything. But if 20 others had showed up like they did, well it could've been a very different game.

Weirdly it filled me with a bit of hope going forward, because it feels like a very low bar that we can realistically quite easily pass if and when we are in a grand final again. If our players aren't having the best game of their lives, just don't panic, keep trying, find ways to impact and contribute positively. All those names I mentioned only going at say 75% rather than 100% is still good and capable of doing plenty of damage.

Instead we seem to get into this mentality of 'oh no I shanked my first kick of the game' or 'geez I just can't get a touch here', or 'oh shit I just lost a 1v1, I'm gonna get reamed for that', and it spirals from there. And I just don't think it needs to be like that.

So just from the outside looking in, I think something we could focus on with our players is for each of them to find alternative ways to impact positively. Take the two I mentioned. In the GF Rowbottom had a quiet game tackling-wise, just the four for the day. But instead of dropping his bundle over a few missed tackles, he found other ways. Won a stack of hard balls and was our best (and arguably only) clearance player on the day, and also kicked a massive goal when the game was still on. And it might've been helpful if Fox could do an effective job nullifying one of Brisbane's many weapons like we know he can. But when that wasn't happening for him, he just decided to push up around the contest and take the unusual role of winning his own ball more instead.

I think having more players willing & capable of doing this is so important to staying in a game even when things aren't going our way. Waiting for the momentum to swing to us and the terms of the game to suit us is what I think got us in trouble all year, and the GF was the one occasion where the pressure is simply too insurmountable to wait and make our great escape. We've got to be able to meet the terms of the game head-on and adapt.

So hopefully Dean Cox is being very forward and confronting each and every one of our players with the question of when your plan A isn't working, what are you gonna do?
I think what makes players dip in grand finals is veering away from basic footy. The magnitude of the game makes you do things you wouldn't normally do - and as counter intuitive as it sounds, one of those things is players being too tense and wasting energy in the contest in an effort to not lose it. Some might think that is exactly what we needed, but it's a fine line, it can create a bees to a honey pot effect and completely throws off team structure. Add the desperation of not wanting to lose, go a few goals down and it all starts to unravel - players start hoping their teammates lift whilst shying away from their own tasks because it feels hopeless, and the final result ends up being a soulless performance.

There were moments in that first qtr where we had an opportunity to punish them on the break but execution and decision making streaming forward was brain dead, you can tell how tense they were in those moments. If we had relaxed and put those scores on the board the lions would've felt more pressure and it could've turned into a completely different game.
The one GF I played in I found out afterwards I doubled my normal tackle count. Had no idea at the time, just tackled everything I could get to.
So I think there's something in what you say.
This is a perfect example of how a grand final can change your performance. As weird as it may sound, you might think you did really well by raising tackle count (and you may have very well played a ripper game), but it can also be a canary in the coal mine. If everyone plays at an abnormal intensity it can completely throw the team off. Especially in todays game where it's more about executing skills rather than rough and tumble 90's footy. If you can play your normal game and the team is able to flow, the teams normal standard of contested footy will naturally come to where it needs to be. If every player had the mindset of just laying 50 tackles rather than playing your usual game, then you're more than likely going to get done. What stood out for me was Brisbane's efficiency and decision making, not their contested work, that was just a flow on affect. There's not a more hopeless feeling in footy when you feel like you're busting your backside whilst the opposition pick you off in such a clean and effortless manner.

That's not to say we don't need to improve in the contest, but that needs to be an off-season thing that we incorporate and practice in season for it to become our new status quo. If we were ever going to win that GF, the only way was to win it the exact same way we won our 17 home and away games.

If i'm completely honest, i think the only way for this team going forward is to continue harnessing our strengths to the endth degree. I just don't trust that this group has that contested footy style of play in them. We lost because we didn't play our game.
 
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