Discussion Silver Lining

[The Punter]

- We should begin to play a more attacking brand of football. If we can win more contested footy, win more and better quality clearances, and have a better functioning forward line, then we should improve. Experienced backmen shouldn't lose their form overnight.

- Despite what everyone says, we have exciting youngsters. Siposs, Steven, McEvoy, Crocker, Geary, Winmar, Stanley, Lynch, Simpkin, Cripps, Ledger & Walsh, Archer and Curran. Fourteen players - if seven work out, we're doing well.

Why only seven? Consider the fifteen best of the rest: Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo, Gwilt, Goddard, Montagna, Jones, Gilbert, Dawson, Dempster, Schneider, Milne, Gram, Fisher & Ray. That doesn't count Armitage, Clarke, Peake or Polo, who all showed sustained periods of good form in 2011. It also doesn't count Kosi or Blake, who should still have something to offer in 2012.

- We will inject at least 10 new players into the club, across the senior and rookie lists. This is an opportunity to address areas of need.

- The removal of expectation. No one will have us making the eight next year. We will be underestimated.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Great post Punter

 

[Murraj1966]

Getting alot of new coaching blood in also can't be a bad thing, this year felt very very stale.

 

[Squizz]

I was excited until I realised The Punter can't count!

- Despite what everyone says, we have exciting youngsters. Siposs, Steven, McEvoy, Crocker, Geary, Winmar, Stanley, Lynch, Simpkin, Cripps, Ledger & Walsh. Fourteen players - if seven work out, we're doing well.

Don't worry Punter. I know you meant to slot my man Archer in there (maybe Willy J too?).

 

[Papa Juggs]

What about Alias?

 

[mysainters]

I can do positive

Lenny's back and just being out on field must impact the boys through his leading by example, Jimmy we have missed as well with his precise kicking from the backline.

Two grand final campaigns + a draw was an amazing effort, but it must have impacted guys like Roo from giving their bodies the rest they needed.

I also don't buy the 'St Kilda have no youth' vibe, who would know?

 

[Squizz]

What about Alias?

Think Punter was avoiding those who might get the chop in a few weeks.

I'd keep him though. He's improved his aerobic capacity and kicking and is still only 21. Needs to get alot cleaner with his marking, and still needs to use the ball better (keep improving).

 

[The Punter]

Smith is no sure thing to stay, but I'd be predisposed to give him another year. He is a tackling machine, and is quick.

 

[Zagg]

What would you classify as one of our youngsters 'making it'? 50 games? 100 games? Top 10 player at the club? There's definitely some promise there, however every club has promising youngsters and ours have arguably shown the least of any club so far.

I'm a believer that having young talent is one thing, developing it is completely another. We need the right coaching team to guide our youth and get the best out of them, whether they're a 1st round pick or picked near the end of the rookie draft.

We're definitely a chance to make the 8 next year as our top end talent is very strong. If we recruit well and if we have a positive off-season for once, then we might bounce back well. However going by the last few seasons they're both very big ifs.

 

[KingJim]

I think Gram is on shaky ground, had quite a pathetic year. Happy to see some guys back from injury and we will have a good red hot go. Let's pop the bubble, behave ourselves in the off-season, no school girls and see how we go.

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

i just hope the new coach plays guys on their merits, your down on form, back to the two's. Bring in a player having a go and play him in his right position. Ross bewildered me with bringing guys in from the twos and playing them in the wrong position. What he did to lynch was amazing. Never played him where he was killing it in the two's.

 

[sammm]

i just hope the new coach plays guys on their merits, your down on form, back to the two's. Bring in a player having a go and play him in his right position. Ross bewildered me with bringing guys in from the twos and playing them in the wrong position. What he did to lynch was amazing. Never played him where he was killing it in the two's.

thats what ross said he would do after the GT era. play guys on their merits. looks like thatwent out the window.

i think ross needed a 3rd tall in the forward line and as lynch was drafted as a forward kept hoping he would be one.

as to talent. Geary? . i hope we trade him out!

 

[Mad Dog 32]

- We should begin to play a more attacking brand of football. If we can win more contested footy, win more and better quality clearances, and have a better functioning forward line, then we should improve. Experienced backmen shouldn't lose their form overnight.

- Despite what everyone says, we have exciting youngsters. Siposs, Steven, McEvoy, Crocker, Geary, Winmar, Stanley, Lynch, Simpkin, Cripps, Ledger & Walsh, Archer and Curran. Fourteen players - if seven work out, we're doing well.

Why only seven? Consider the fifteen best of the rest: Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo, Gwilt, Goddard, Montagna, Jones, Gilbert, Dawson, Dempster, Schneider, Milne, Gram, Fisher & Ray. That doesn't count Armitage, Clarke, Peake or Polo, who all showed sustained periods of good form in 2011. It also doesn't count Kosi or Blake, who should still have something to offer in 2012.

- We will inject at least 10 new players into the club, across the senior and rookie lists. This is an opportunity to address areas of need.

- The removal of expectation. No one will have us making the eight next year. We will be underestimated.

Good post. Swans can rebuild without bottoming out and we have better top-end talent than they do. Personally, I lament Misson's departure more than Lyons.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

thats what ross said he would do after the GT era. play guys on their merits. looks like thatwent out the window.

i think ross needed a 3rd tall in the forward line and as lynch was drafted as a forward kept hoping he would be one.

as to talent. Geary? . i hope we trade him out!

Geary looked like he was ready to have a real crack after the pre-season. A broken bone may have stifled his development a bit.
I'd hope he gets another year with us.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Geary looked like he was ready to have a real crack after the pre-season. A broken bone may have stifled his development a bit.
I'd hope he gets another year with us.

He's never looked like being more than an average player though imo. I think Ledger and Cripps should get into the team ahead of him.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He's never looked like being more than an average player though imo. I think Ledger and Cripps should get into the team ahead of him.

Maybe but Leigh Montagna was pretty average for about 4 seasons, and If Geary is similarly a late developer he's worth more than what we'd get in trade.

Not saying Ledger and Cripps arent looking like better prospects at the moment.

I still think what Collingwood are doing with high rotations off the bench is the way to go, and its running mids you need to do it. Geary is also a better prospect for sub than Raph Clarke or Jason Blake ( in case you didnt notice).

 

[Baldur]

The simple fact is that Lyon as a coach has weaknesses. He is a poor people manager, a poor recruiter, has no ability to foster youth & like most coach’s is dreadful at delegating. This is balanced by an ability to get the most of a list & a very good winning record, so clearly he knows how to win games. Just not Grand Finals damn it.

His staff kept leaving, his recruitment over the last 5 years has been worse than average, the youth that we do have has not been developed & he tries to control everything. A good admin would place someone to run the football department & recruiting. The St Kilda admin finally did this with the appointment of Pelchen & I am given to understand Lyon was most unimpressed.

Our performance this year has been average, the media vermin go on about how he was a genius to turn the club around in the second half. But did he? Or did the better players finally find some form as he just kept doing the same old same old.

So if we get a good coach without those weaknesses, like Geelong got just the guy they needed, then this could be the best thing to happen to us all year

 

[Persevering Saint]

The fact is that, when Ross came in, we forgot the major influences that GT had put into them. In the five years that Grant Thomas was our coach, he had taken our team's culture to a whole new level, by taking them on international professional development trips that taught them they fitted into a big world with bigger issues. His rotating captaincy and development of a leadership group (all of which were unheard of in AFL before Thomas) meant that Ross inherited boys who had been made into leaders.

None of the good points that Thomas initiated in the playing group or the club went away when Ross got there. They were built upon to make us fresher and better.

Whoever becomes our new coach will inherit a bunch of players who understand football at a tactical level like never before, who have had defensive technique honed to a terrifying degree. BOTH of our coaches over the last decade also demanded players be men, accountable for their own football, who showed courage and maturity.

None of these things need to go, nor will go. They will be refreshed, developed by a new coach with new ideas, to make them even more impressive. He's inheriting excellent players, who are that excellent because of two excellent coaches developing them. The big mistake clubs like Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne (and I might suggest, Fremantle) etc have made is that, every previous coach has been seen as a failure, whose lessons need to be UNLEARNED by the players before they can learn something new.

That is why St Kilda is a better club now than any of those. Because we keep the best of our last coaches' lessons and build on it, allowing it to evolve with the evolving wider game. This is why the club refuses to disparage Lyon. They are about creating a culture, which believes that aiming to be better isn't necessarily about thinking the past was crap. The best kind of better, is to make better something that was already pretty flipping good.

Ross was. We are St Kilda.

 

[The Punter]

Brilliant, Perce.

 

[CHBench]

You know, i think it was for the best. The way it panned out was filthy, and it's sad how a pretty nice era for the club had to end, but the end result was probably what needed to happen.

After the turmoil the club has endured, the place needs a bit of excitement. New direction, new leadership and new players will provide that. Can't wait now.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Brilliant, Perce.

I have my moments.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I have my moments.

In which you don't post quality, these are called rare.

You are the light to my guidance.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

In which you don't post quality, these are called rare.

You are the light to my guidance.

Naww you guys are beautiful sometimes.

 

[Fehring]

What about Alias?

Think Punter was avoiding those who might get the chop in a few weeks.

I'd keep him though. He's improved his aerobic capacity and kicking and is still only 21. Needs to get alot cleaner with his marking, and still needs to use the ball better (keep improving).

Happy to keep him, but wouldn't be devastated if the club thought otherwise. He may indeed come good, but I think he sits behind about 10 midfielders (the established lot, plus Cripps, Ledger, Crocker even)

He's never looked like being more than an average player though imo. I think Ledger and Cripps should get into the team ahead of him.

I thought Geary really improved this year and deserves more time. Shows more promise to me than Alias, and would sit just ahead of him in the queue for mine.

The fact is that, when Ross came in, we forgot the major influences that GT had put into them. In the five years that Grant Thomas was our coach, he had taken our team's culture to a whole new level, by taking them on international professional development trips that taught them they fitted into a big world with bigger issues. His rotating captaincy and development of a leadership group (all of which were unheard of in AFL before Thomas) meant that Ross inherited boys who had been made into leaders.

None of the good points that Thomas initiated in the playing group or the club went away when Ross got there. They were built upon to make us fresher and better.

Whoever becomes our new coach will inherit a bunch of players who understand football at a tactical level like never before, who have had defensive technique honed to a terrifying degree. BOTH of our coaches over the last decade also demanded players be men, accountable for their own football, who showed courage and maturity.

None of these things need to go, nor will go. They will be refreshed, developed by a new coach with new ideas, to make them even more impressive. He's inheriting excellent players, who are that excellent because of two excellent coaches developing them. The big mistake clubs like Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne (and I might suggest, Fremantle) etc have made is that, every previous coach has been seen as a failure, whose lessons need to be UNLEARNED by the players before they can learn something new.

That is why St Kilda is a better club now than any of those. Because we keep the best of our last coaches' lessons and build on it, allowing it to evolve with the evolving wider game. This is why the club refuses to disparage Lyon. They are about creating a culture, which believes that aiming to be better isn't necessarily about thinking the past was crap. The best kind of better, is to make better something that was already pretty flipping good.

Ross was. We are St Kilda.

Quite right. Lovely post. In fact, I think the club has steadily built on a foundation going back to the Plympton/Sheldon days, as I've written in a few places before. A bit like Geelong, we have a team quite capable of almost coaching itself next year.

 

[pieman_vinnie]

Get the right man in and you blokes could be the 2012 version of this year's Geelong - written off by all and sundry only to confound the critics and be right amongst it come the pointy end. Lyon had run his race with this group surely, and him leaving could be just about the best thing that could happen to the club as a whole. Get a new coach in with a new vision, regenerate the list, get hayes and gwilt back into the side, avoid the off season distractions of last year, and who knows what 2012 holds? I know one thing for certain - players don't lose their talent, they may struggle to produce to their highest level but they still have it within them.

Adding another genuine forward marking option over the off season would be handy tho to the neutral observer - if riewoldt is fit enough to play at CHF on a consistent basis why not give fev a try at out of the goal square? Put him on the minimum contract, tight conditions, one f*#k up and he's gone. No skin off your back. But what if he does everything right? All of a sudden you have superstar FF capable of kicking 70+ in 2012 and releasing riewoldt to create havoc further up the ground. Unlikely but gee it is worth considering surely

I am pretty confident that you blokes will be right amongst the action next year despite what all the so called experts are shoving down our throat. Yes it's an aging list but it's not like they're all 30+ and washed up. there is another effort in them