So... a guy got beheaded in front of my office today

[Tassieboy]

Not sure I agree with David Cameron's labelling of this as a terror attack though. Politically motivated murder seems more accurate.

An odd one, indeed. I think 'terror attack' has now morphed into 'acts of religious violence'.

 

[LouisCK]

It's tragic that presumably otherwise decent men and women essentially sell their humanity and morality for the sake of a false doctrine.

Just to play devil's advocate, the guy who died would logically have been prepared to kill simply for money.

What is worse? Killing people for cash, or killing the people who murder for cash?

 

[Malifice]

Could not really notice much blood around the victim in the video.

They did all the damage on the footpath after running him over. Blood everywhere.

Then they dragged him to the middle of the road (massive blood trail from where he was killed to the road). He'd literally bled out well before they dumped him in the road.

What ****heads.

We object to this sort of thing happening... so we're going to do it ourselves.

**** I hate extremists, nationals, fundamentalists and militants. The hypocricy is always staggering.

 

[LouisCK]

Anyone else find the timing of the Boston marathon and now this in London kind of suspect?

Any new Patriot Act types of laws up for review?

Does Australia still have our equivalent in place? I'm trying to think when the sunset clause for ours was... might not take the train for a while.

 

[Poseidon]

Did they talk to you? What kind of crap were they saying?
This is just bizarre and tragic.

 

[Tassieboy]

Just to play devil's advocate, the guy who died would logically have been prepared to kill simply for money.

What is worse? Killing people for cash, or killing the people who murder for cash?

Yeah, I see your point and I really have no clue what to think of the war in the Middle East - I've been at both ends of the stratum. I, too, have an unpopular opinion when I say ANZAC Day has become so big many actually forget others were also killed in the conflict, often those who are being just as patriotic. Thus in certain respects, although we should pay our respects to the soldiers, we forget how it is actually a celebration of the worst of humanity.

 

[skilts]

While appalled by this gross event, I knew none of its direct participants. My immediate concern is for one of our own, Malifice. What a ghastly thing to witness.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

The most violent area of the world statistically speaking, has always been Europe. Likewise, the Catholic church was/is by far the most violent of the major religions. Islam is second. The two are so similar in nature that trying to blame either Christianity or Islam completely misses the point:

The UK, France and USA are really bad at settling refugees and at providing services and employment prospects to their youth. Australia spends far more per refugee than these countries, and as a result we are better at integrating them. Plus there's a good chance they'll be able to find employment.

Islamic defence, and the "War on Terror" is the stated reason for the attack, but its all about economics. Get a large enough group of unemployed and disaffected youth, and violence will follow.

West Africa is a mess no doubt, primarily due to European and Chinese influence though. Even historically, when the USA started repatriating former slaves to West Africa, they didn't implement anywhere near enough controls/systems for effective governance.

It has very little to do with Islam, the point is the cultural acceptance of violence as an appropriate responsible to settle conflicts.

Very little of the violence has to do with religion it extends to religion because the culture at large accepts violence.

They don't behead someone the street because they are Islamic they do it because they see Islam is under attack, And in some cultures an acceptable way of dealing with any attack religious or otherwise is with horrific violence. (I once saw the body of a man hacked to death in dafar over a land dispute)

Now no doubt in this particular case Islam was a factor, but without having existed there whole lives within a culture where violence is acceptable would they have responded this way?

It's stupid to believe this is all down to employment (and if it is then I question why the uk and France don't start limiting there intake of refuges) the simple fact is the larger the immigrant group grows the more prominent there cultural norms are displayed.

 

[Malifice]

Anyone else find the timing of the Boston marathon and now this in London kind of suspect?

GG aint wriggling a conspiracy theory into this one.

Unless of course, Im in on it too...

Did they talk to you? What kind of crap were they saying?

They were actually reasonably lucid all things considered. Just shit about the government and asking us all to film them.

Which made the whole thing even more surreal.

While appalled by this gross event, I knew none of its direct participants. My immediate concern is for one of our own, Malifice. What an ghastly thing to witness.

It was ****ing tapped mate.

Ive seen violent death up close before (road accidents, suicide via firearm and a stabbing) but this was just bizzare.

That poor bastard they got was just walking home minding his own buisiness then snap. Middle of the day, main drag of Woolwich, in full view of everyone. Knocked down with a car, then stabbed and hacked to death by two total strangers with no mercy. Then the killers just stuck around, casually taking to people while all drenched in blood.

Just couldnt believe what I was seeing.

 

[LouisCK]

Its not culturally normal for anyone to butcher someone in the street. Its a tactic employed to gain massive exposure for an issue.

If you want to talk violence, culturally speaking, the USA and Europe are miles ahead of anywhere else.

Look at their movies for a start. High school shootings, lone wolf style massacres etc. are almost universally an expression of rage in the West only.

People are violent by design, everywhere. But Europeans and Americans are more likely to express that rage in the form of ultra violence.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Just to play devil's advocate, the guy who died would logically have been prepared to kill simply for money.

What is worse? Killing people for cash, or killing the people who murder for cash?

I'm sorry but that's a load of crap I've never met a soldier that "Kill's for money" they do it for their cause for country and their way of life.

No matter the country all soldiers fight for the same thing to protect others.

As someone who's worked for PMC's and met plenty of actual soldiers in theatre as well as a group of real merc's I can tell you it's not right to equate the 2 groups.

Sure some soldiers would kill for money just as some local street thug might but to believe a person who volunteers to serve their country is little more then a hired gun is disgraceful.

 

[LouisCK]

GG aint wriggling a conspiracy theory into this one.

Unless of course, Im in on it too...

Haha I'm not going that far yet. But looking at the guy, he appeared to be of West African descent.

It'll tie in to Mali or Congo or something where the UK and France have been bombing everyone over resources.

 

[Tassieboy]

Its not culturally normal for anyone to butcher someone in the street. Its a tactic employed to gain massive exposure for an issue.

If you want to talk violence, culturally speaking, the USA and Europe are miles ahead of anywhere else.

Look at their movies for a start. High school shootings, lone wolf style massacres etc. are almost universally an expression of rage in the West only.

People are violent by design, everywhere. But Europeans and Americans are more likely to express that rage in the form of ultra violence.

Incidentally, is England actually that bad? I don't think it's comparable to America, although I have little knowledge of statistics. I don't think they have been all that barbaric by today's standards since religious beliefs have waned of the recent centuries.

I am not exactly convinced people are necessarily violent by design, although I don't really have a logical case to dispute your argument.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Its not culturally normal for anyone to butcher someone in the street. Its a tactic employed to gain massive exposure for an issue.

If you want to talk violence, culturally speaking, the USA and Europe are miles ahead of anywhere else.

Look at their movies for a start. High school shootings, lone wolf style massacres etc. are almost universally an expression of rage in the West only.

People are violent by design, everywhere. But Europeans and Americans are more likely to express that rage in the form of ultra violence.

An Even better example thank you the US's culture of violence just re-enforces my position there's certain areas with in the us where violence is normal part of life and is infact celebrated and glamorised.

And people wonder why they have such high homicde rates. Yet 99% of these crimes are committed with no indication of religion being involved, in fact in some areas the areas are so dangerous police and EMS don't respond.

Clearly the issue of continuing violence is cultural one!

 

[Tassieboy]

Haha I'm not going that far yet. But looking at the guy, he appeared to be of West African descent.

It'll tie in to Mali or Congo or something where the UK and France have been bombing everyone over resources.

Perhaps. However, I'd doubt it'd be the Congo or anywhere of a similar latitude or further south because the vast majority are Christian in these areas. Nigeria might be a decent bet.

 

[J_Moore]

****. Nothing against rank-and-file Muslims, but Islam is a Trojan horse.

So "nothing against rank and file muslims, but they're all ****ed"?

The ****ing micks have mortared Downing St in most of our lifetimes, but I didn't see anyone advocating a Catholic purge.

 

[LouisCK]

I'm sorry but that's a load of crap I've never met a soldier that "Kill's for money" they do it for their cause for country and their way of life.

No they don't. It's a job. Like any other.

Or on the flipside, that would clearly make the soldier worse than the two attackers: He joined for 'the cause'? The cause of what? Invading the lands of brown people on behalf of Halliburton? What kind of lame belief system is that?

No matter the country all soldiers fight for the same thing to protect others.

They do it for money. Its a job.

As someone who's worked for PMC's and met plenty of actual soldiers in theatre as well as a group of real merc's I can tell you it's not right to equate the 2 groups.

Sure some soldiers would kill for money just as some local street thug might but to believe a person who volunteers to serve their country is little more then a hired gun is disgraceful.

I respect the job they do, but its still a job. And some of them very recently have been very bad at their job.

Anyway, didn't mean to cause offence

 

[J_Moore]

Anyone else find the timing of the Boston marathon and now this in London kind of suspect?

Any new Patriot Act types of laws up for review?

Does Australia still have our equivalent in place? I'm trying to think when the sunset clause for ours was... might not take the train for a while.

Are you trying to get this thread moved to question time? FMD.

 

[Malifice]

Christ, now the EDL have gathered in Woolwich to 'protest'.

Pretty sure the attackers were British born. They certainly sounded it. Wrong color skin I guess.

Work could be intresting tommorow.

 

[Tassieboy]

Christ, now the EDL have gathered in Woolwich to 'protest'.

Pretty sure the attackers were British born. They certainly sounded it. Wrong color skin I guess.

Work could be intresting tommorow.

The sound OK in principal, but are they just too ridiculous and haphazardous?

*Oh right, a Google search shows they aren't so peaceful after all and also full of nutters. Nevermind

 

[Malifice]

The sound OK in principal, but are they just too ridiculous and haphazardous?

*Oh right, a Google search shows they aren't so peaceful after all and also full of nutters.

Far Right wing Anders Brevik loving white nationalist types.

Woolwich has a massive Nigerian and Carribean population. More black than white. Fair few north African and ME groups in the area too. Was ground zero for the riots.

Black muslim attackers, white soldier victim.

Could get messy.

 

[LouisCK]

Perhaps. However, I'd doubt it'd be the Congo or anywhere of a similar latitude or further south because the vast majority are Christian in these areas. Nigeria might be a decent bet.

Well there's that Islamic insurgency in Mali I was thinking of, but if I'm not mistaken haven't the French switched sides somewhere there and started killing Christians once it became obvious the muslims were going to win?

The almighty dollar is by far the worst of the major religions. . .

 

[LouisCK]

Far Right wing Anders Brevik loving white nationalist types.

Woolwich has a massive Nigerian and Carribean population. More black than white. Fair few north African and ME groups in the area too. Was ground zero for the riots.

Black muslim attackers, white soldier victim.

Could get messy.

Is it a similar situation to the USA where a lot of the impoverished black youth (Caribbean and West African guys generally aren't Islamic) convert to Islam when they're in prison?

Or maybe the guy is Ethiopian? Looks a bit too muscular imo.

 

[Tassieboy]

Far Right wing Anders Brevik loving white nationalist types.

Woolwich has a massive Nigerian and Carribean population. More black than white. Fair few north African and ME groups in the area too. Was ground zero for the riots.

Black muslim attackers, white soldier victim.

Could get messy.

I see. Hopefully race once again does not rear its ugly head.

 

[Malifice]

Well there's that Islamic insurgency in Mali I was thinking of, but if I'm not mistaken haven't the French switched sides somewhere there and started killing Christians once it became obvious the muslims were going to win?

The almighty dollar is by far the worst of the major religions. . .

Fair to say this had as much to do with that conflict as Boston had to do with Chechnya.

As in zero.