Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[sparkybagger]

Plenty of flags have been won by teams with limited footballers.

You can hide weaknesses and exentuate strengths with good system. Perfect example Lewis Young. If you worry about his disposal give him an easy outlet every time.

The problem is good coaches can do that. Good coaches can get the best out of the list.

We seem to be unable to get an average game out of A graders with our system.

This. Ratts was a competent (not great, IMO) coach but he managed to churn out competitive and watchable teams with a couple of great players mixed with some very ordinary footballers under his charge.

 

[jpfalvo]

Plenty of flags have been won by teams with limited footballers.

You can hide weaknesses and exentuate strengths with good system. Perfect example Lewis Young. If you worry about his disposal give him an easy outlet every time.

The problem is good coaches can do that. Good coaches can get the best out of the list.

We seem to be unable to get an average game out of A graders with our system.

Valid.

Collingwood and Frampton.

Asked him to do 1 simple job. Flag winner
Its the job of the coach, to extract a strength

Hardwick, could do this with some very average richmond 3 time flag winners

Even, Malthouse in his collingwood

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[Blue_Fusion]

Plenty of flags have been won by teams with limited footballers.

You can hide weaknesses and exentuate strengths with good system. Perfect example Lewis Young. If you worry about his disposal give him an easy outlet every time.

The problem is good coaches can do that. Good coaches can get the best out of the list.

We seem to be unable to get an average game out of A graders with our system.

Young's disposal is only part of the problem.

His decision making is baffling at times and he doesn't stand his ground well in contests.

Last year our first month without Weitering he did a solid job and he certainly wasn't the problem in the elimination final like some want to pile on him for...

 

[CarmenSandiego]

That is *****n disgusting as a message. "Don't go moping in that room". Absolutely deplorable, you should walk in that room and absolutely HATE that you have lost. The room should be a pit of questions and truth about what happened.

I'm not advocating tearing strips off players and yelling like a madman. But that there is almost happy that it was only 20 pts.



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The best coach I ever had - and he was seriously good coach - was big on not moping.

Would go berserk addressing us after the game and expect us to be salty then, but once that was over - head up and move on.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

This. Ratts was a competent (not great, IMO) coach but he managed to churn out competitive and watchable teams with a couple of great players mixed with some very ordinary footballers under his charge.

his list had holes but we had Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Betts, Garlett, Yarran, Jamieson, Robinson, Scotland, Walker.

Pretty good base, before free agency even kicked off.

We could’ve really gone somewhere if we didn’t completely **** it up.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Valid.

Collingwood and Frampton.

Asked him to do 1 simple job. Flag winner
Its the job of the coach, to extract a strength

Hardwick, could do this with some very average richmond 3 time flag winners

Even, Malthouse in his collingwood

Agreed.

This coach wants to instill squad mentality but at the same time he'll drop players who are performing in their role in order to bring in his favourites.

No doubt in my mind that was the catalyst to the breakdown in their mentality last year and no sign of recovery after the off season...

Injuries are an excuse for last year... I don't buy it at all... In 2023 we had a boatload of key injuries, yet we still beat eventual flag winners and top 4 teams week in, week out.

His pc and address to the group after the game on Thursday was alarming to me...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

his list had holes but we had Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Betts, Garlett, Yarran, Jamieson, Robinson, Scotland, Walker.

Pretty good base, before free agency even kicked off.

We could’ve really gone somewhere if we didn’t completely **** it up.

2011 I believe we had a great chance...

We got robbed v WC away, quite a few key players missing in that game and Walker not getting the free was bs.

Had we gone on to play the Cats, can't say we'd def win but we would have been a very strong chance and the Pies the following week didn't turn up to play the gf...

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Similarly, I still can't believe what Fly was able to achieve with that very ordinary Collingwood list a couple of years ago. It will continue to burn me for decades.

Yep. Funny how hard everyone was laughing at them only 1-2 years before that premiership. Treloar beams etc 'ph they've cooked their list they suck'.....

..... Yeah right....

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The best coach I ever had - and he was seriously good coach - was big on not moping.

Would go berserk addressing us after the game and expect us to be salty then, but once that was over - head up and move on.

The not moping isn't the alarming part to me...

It was the fact he was lamenting some contested work... praising the ball movement... calling the way we're playing a sustainable model... yikes...

 

[jpfalvo]

Agreed.

This coach wants to instill squad mentality but at the same time he'll drop players who are performing in their role in order to bring in his favourites.

No doubt in my mind that was the catalyst to the breakdown in their mentality last year and no sign of recovery after the off season...

Injuries are an excuse for last year... I don't buy it at all... In 2023 we had a boatload of key injuries, yet we still beat eventual flag winners and top 4 teams week in, week out.

His pc and address to the group after the game on Thursday was alarming to me...

Was it 2022.

Dropping jsos for that Port game? A shocking loss, and another nail in the missing finals for 2022 coffin.

Or 2023, using him in multi positions, then similar attitude.

Or 2024, constantly backing in fantasia when performance was poor over trying others.


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[bigm386]

Young's disposal is only part of the problem.

His decision making is baffling at times and he doesn't stand his ground well in contests.

Last year our first month without Weitering he did a solid job and he certainly wasn't the problem in the elimination final like some want to pile on him for...

Personally I've never seen Young have as many brain fades in a game as McGovern.

I'm not sure why Young is crucified and McGovern and for that matter Hayes given a pass.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Personally I've never seen Young have as many brain fades in a game as McGovern.

I'm not sure why Young is crucified and McGovern and for that matter Hayes given a pass.

Well not by me... I wanted both Haynes and Gov dropped after rd1 and again after r2...

Coach won't do it.

 

[bigm386]

Well not by me... I wanted both Haynes and Gov dropped after rd1 and again after r2...

Coach won't do it.

Hard agree.

But we have 0 selection integrity.

Young was actually ok late last year as you said if not better than ok I'd much rather persist with him.

But won't happen.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Was it 2022.

Dropping jsos for that Port game? A shocking loss, and another nail in the missing finals for 2022 coffin.

Or 2023, using him in multi positions, then similar attitude.

Or 2024, constantly backing in fantasia when performance was poor over trying others.


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Yeah there's just so many examples...

Dropped Hewett for Cerra who had been out for like 6 weeks and 0 VFL time. Then with Cerra not performing week after week, he sticks him at hb to keep him in the side...

Favouring Cottrell in the forward line and making Owies sub after he played well v Richmond the week before, even dished off some gimme goals to I think Fog and Fantasia to help get their confidence going...

Ridiculous.

 

[Arr0w]

In isolation I think it's nothing.

The fear is after the last 18 odd months of the same gameplan and messaging does he still have the group?

We keep losing and the players will get another out

 

[jpfalvo]

Well not by me... I wanted both Haynes and Gov dropped after rd1 and again after r2...

Coach won't do it.

The more the pressure comes, the more he will double down.

And less, he will be brave with selection...

All poor coaches do this. And in the end, the end comes swiftly, for inaction and too little too late

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[jpfalvo]

Yeah there's just so many examples...

Dropped Hewett for Cerra who had been out for like 6 weeks and 0 VFL time. Then with Cerra not performing week after week, he sticks him at hb to keep him in the side...

Favouring Cottrell in the forward line and making Owies sub after he played well v Richmond the week before, even dished off some gimme goals to I think Fog and Fantasia to help get their confidence going...

Ridiculous.

If blind freddy can see this.

It begs the question how the very well paid Footy people at the club cant see this

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[Lukeblueboy]

The more the pressure comes, the more he will double down.

And less, he will be brave with selection...

All poor coaches do this. And in the end, the end comes swiftly, for inaction and too little too late

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I hope Voss(to a certain degree and for his sake)can change his ways and wreak some rewards from it, or unfortunately yes, what u have said above will probably eventuate.
I like Voss, I just think through various reasons he’s now starting to get himself into a messy situation. I really hope we can start winning and slowly change a few things on the run

 

[Stamos]

Personally? Or reported - do you have a link?

Not having a go, I'd just find it mind blowing if we're not already doing the basic building blocks/fundamentals stuff that other more successful teams are doing, that beggars belief (which isn't to say its not true, knowing us )

Adam Simpson on SEN just now.
Mitchell coached under him at West Coast and said he knows that he/Hawthorn focus on fundamentals.
While trying not to pile on Carlton, he was scathing of our fundamentals.

I really think this is a huge issue for us, which should be the easiest to fix and easiest to have the quickest most positive influence.

 

[Doro]

his list had holes but we had Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Betts, Garlett, Yarran, Jamieson, Robinson, Scotland, Walker.

Pretty good base, before free agency even kicked off.

We could’ve really gone somewhere if we didn’t completely **** it up.

Went to water against the better sides like the Hawks and Swans when the physical heat was applied. The exact opposite of the current side . One day we'll get the mix right.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Lots of talk about training fundamentals lately.

What does a 2 hour session of training fundamentals look like?

 

[SurreyBlue]

I hope Voss(to a certain degree and for his sake)can change his ways and wreak some rewards from it, or unfortunately yes, what u have said above will probably eventuate.
I like Voss, I just think through various reasons he’s now starting to get himself into a messy situation. I really hope we can start winning and slowly change a few things on the run

Agree. He needs to adapt and quickly change his ways, selections included. It appears he hasn't learnt from last year's debacle.

This group has maybe a couple of years left, and IMO a new coach won't have much time to get it done.

Our admin needs to get busy, find the root cause within the coaching group and FIX IT ASAP.

 

[jpfalvo]

I hope Voss(to a certain degree and for his sake)can change his ways and wreak some rewards from it, or unfortunately yes, what u have said above will probably eventuate.
I like Voss, I just think through various reasons he’s now starting to get himself into a messy situation. I really hope we can start winning and slowly change a few things on the run

I have been a Voss naysayer from the first day he was hired.

But back then, there was no evidence that he was a dynamic selection to propel us to competition leading... as in... outside of talent based individual performances

He clearly has had that to lift his W and L ratio.

Cripps 2 brownlow
Multi AA players
2 Colemans
Etc etc

But now 4 pre seasons later...

He looks every bit as inept as his Brisbane era, just with a PC skew.

My query back then was, if he had such a burning desire for 2nd time chance for head coach...

WHY, did he spend 10yrs at Port, who in itself under Hinkley, has been spasmodic.

Why did he not move around and collect experiences from other teams, learning different styles and methodologies ??

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[jpfalvo]

Adam Simpson on SEN just now.
Mitchell coached under him at West Coast and said he knows that he/Hawthorn focus on fundamentals.
While trying not to pile on Carlton, he was scathing of our fundamentals.

I really think this is a huge issue for us, which should be the easiest to fix and easiest to have the quickest most positive influence.

He also said.

Compared us to WC post covid. Waiting for injured players come back...and all play together to get it together.

He said for WC, it never reall happened and when it did, the players were weakened, not the same. Then they effectively free falled. Maybe this is Carlton.

And...

We had Chaos in Defense. Thats damming.

And...

At R2, if you beat Carlton at the stoppages, you win. So we are 1 trick ponies.



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[Stamos]

He also said.

Will post it when they put it up as a podcast