Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[The Blue Weirdo]

A number of people have been pointing this issue out for a long tme now - her eis a youtube video that shows the pesistant issue and is my #1 frustration with Carlton coaching atm

Too many at the contest, no one spreading to receive an outlet, that's gameplan.

Hawks didn't need to be world leaders at disposal, most of their targets were in open spaces or leading towards one.
Their system makes their player's disposal appear better. There was some average kicks by them in that video, but the targets were in open space getting uncontested possessions.

 

[JustaBattler]

Too many at the contest, no one spreading to receive an outlet, that's gameplan.

Hawks didn't need to be world leaders at disposal, most of their targets were in open spaces or leading towards one.
Their system makes their player's disposal appear better. There was some average kicks by them in that video, but the targets were in open space getting uncontested possessions.

It is extremely frustrating to watch isn't it? has been going for eyars now- and is absolutely ridiculous to watch week in week out - inexplicable in my book. It isn't as if the coaches arent aware of this since people on here have been posting about it for aa long time and a youtuber has even bothered to make a video about it....

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Ah, the old sanity clause

 

[DangerousD]

A number of people have been pointing this issue out for a long tme now - her eis a youtube video that shows the pesistant issue and is my #1 frustration with Carlton coaching atm

Loved this video and analysis JAB and the whole time im watching it im thinking, this is a coaching issue. Ive seen you mention a few times that you think lots of our issues are quality and personnel, what do videos like this do to your opinion on this?

If you clean up this stuff, players can actually improve on the other areas that are holding us back, no idea if its Voss but there’s a massive structural issue here

 

[jj1978]

I’m desperate for Vossy to succeed and to lead us to no.17 but I’m losing more faith in him by the day.

Team selection this week is horrible and he’s been conducting himself lately with his tactics and team selection with arrogance and delusion.

He better hope results change very soon or it’s gonna end badly for him.

That's where we stand. We become desperate that finally "this coach or this player" is the trigger. We then wait 3,4,5 years to fall back to where we started. The real issue is the collective and who gets to assess the collective, and if we do we bring in externals who are still 'guided' I suspect to be bias to a particular outcome.

We need the board, player management and incumbant CEO to be aggressive.

• Clean up stale board members
• Clean up a swathe of coaching staff - skills, tactics.. If they feel Voss is the man then his assistants aren't doing the job
• Trade collateral.. it's a team of 80% workman like consistent players (with actual ability to execute the basics) sprinkled with 20% top shelf that win you premiership. We're a mess collectively here. This trade and draft period we need to fix our key position defence, get some pace and sort out our forward line and possibly decide what our ruck strategy is going to be. I'd be putting up Walsh, Pito (if TDK stays), McGov, Williams. Saad, Durdin|Fog|Motlop|Elijah, and Charlie (or Harry is he needs a fresh start with whatever it is) up for trade. Delist/Retire Fantrasia, Doc. If Cripps is itching to go to WA then make Freo/WC pay (WC may have collateral if Reid goes as rumoured), same with Moir to Adelaide. We can't no longer be shy about our list is not puzzled together right so we need to fix existing gaps and consistencies and do it before Tassie arrives.
• Invest in recruitment, particularly identifying those skilled workman players outside of the second round and incorporating heavy psychological evaluations on potentials factoring traits such as dedication/pride in performance/teamwork/integrity

It is what it is. I'll keep watching the team play and support but it's numbing seeing the cycle of the last 20+ years keep repeating.

 

[jj1978]

Just recently Pies won a flag 2 years after sacking Buckley. Kingsley made top 4 in his first season after Cameron was sacked.

I think people cling to the Hardwick and Thompson examples to closely. Both had some success before they were backed in and had just had a bad years. There are probably more examples of clubs who've had success after sacking a coach then after backing one in. All comes down to who the coach is and what problems exist.

Yep, Obviously Pies had the pieces (and frankly probably like 2010 had NFI how they won it) so it does show a coach that 'gets' his list and knows how to build a strategy is super important.

 

[jj1978]

It is extremely frustrating to watch isn't it? has been going for eyars now- and is absolutely ridiculous to watch week in week out - inexplicable in my book. It isn't as if the coaches arent aware of this since people on here have been posting about it for aa long time and a youtuber has even bothered to make a video about it....

Remember how long it took for us to stop the whole flappy arm defence thing.

 

[Arr0w]

Every side wants to outnumber the opposition at a stoppage congestion, ots what you do once you win the pill

Our biggest issue apart from the lack speed and foot users, is the lack composure and a predetermined mindset to move the ball on quicker than we should and or players not working hard enough to get into space

 

[Turnover Goal]

A number of people have been pointing this issue out for a long tme now - her eis a youtube video that shows the pesistant issue and is my #1 frustration with Carlton coaching

Excellent analysis...and so clearly pointed out. It's actually embarrassing, and possibly the reason for the lack of cohesion within the club. Players and and coaches that don't want to play this way are at loggerheads with the 'Gameplan'. Either Voss needs to change or the club will make a change.

 

[JustaBattler]

Loved this video and analysis JAB and the whole time im watching it im thinking, this is a coaching issue. Ive seen you mention a few times that you think lots of our issues are quality and personnel, what do videos like this do to your opinion on this?

If you clean up this stuff, players can actually improve on the other areas that are holding us back, no idea if its Voss but there’s a massive structural issue here

Do I think coaching is perfect - no. However, we had had far worse to deal with in Malthouse and others - and (imo) continuity has been a major factor that has held Carlton back. So I am firmly on the side of continuity - as long as we see improvement or a stable level of strong performance - which for me is finals quality football.

I understand people being upset with exposed on field performance over the last 12 or so games in particular. Hopwever against that last year I point to injurioes and lack of continuity as a mitigating factor. Even now at teh start of the season Carlton cant access its best 22....

Re coaching V players - my only concern re coaching has always been :

1. Forward line dysfunctionality; and
2. Structures around contests

these are definitely coaching issues that should have besn fixed by now- as a CLub irrespective of what players are playing week to week these are basic things that are drilled and coached and practised. Who is more responsible - well collectibvely they have failed and the head coach takes responsibility -no doubt about that.

So no Voss and Co cant get a leave pass for this crapola - so basic I am flabbergasted that they have been left to be what they are - still.

Re rumours about players/coaches morale and other stuff like that - I have no data therefore I never express opinions. In fact constant negative murmurings upset me - they are an unprovable distraction.

Re players

1. I am of the opinion based on personal experience as a player and a coach in rugby codes - that you cant lift a player's basic skills after a certain age - especially in AFL - kicking. You might just might with a lot of effort get a poor kick up to below average - but they will never be a trustworthy or good let alone elite kick.

2. More importantly - players with low footy IQ are unlikely to develop to average or better footy IQ. Coaches compensate by drilling and repetition and on field leadership maintains consistency - but ultimateely stoopid is expose dunder any form of pressure - every time.

We missed finals in 2022 because of stoopid in the last 2 games in the last two minutes in each.

So I differentiate between what coaches can and should do - and what they inherit.

Right now it is too hard for me to form a conclusive opinion about Voss and Co - except to say the structural isues around contest and forward line working as a team are not top4 or even finals quality.

On players I think Carlton is very low on on field IQ as in very very low. Which also points a foinger at on field leadership which I think is different to personal performance.

Thats my view - and I think Voss has this year to make finals or bye bye. Fix the around the contest issues and imo 70% of our problems are fixed - Confidence in this happening is low.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

To answer the thread title.

Kouta

The club needs a uniter. Someone who can get some passion back into the jumper. We all know 1999. We beat Essendon because we willed it. We weren't the better team. It didn't matter the in fighting or anything else. Come game day it was we are Carlton **** you for challenging us. We will win.

Clubs finally figured out salary caps and the draft how about we get a lightning rod. Tbh I thought Voss might be that but the amount of insipid milestone games and rivalry games..... He isn't.

Give me Kouta. Couldn't care less about credentials. Get some up and coming assistants. Make it carlton.

And I'm not an old boy yearning for the old days. I'm a 31 year old who looks at a soulless club behaving like St Kilda. Placing as much reverance and pride into playing for the club as St Kilda do. We are carlton. **** you.

 

[bradfisher14]

To answer the thread title.

Kouta

The club needs a uniter. Someone who can get some passion back into the jumper. We all know 1999. We beat Essendon because we willed it. We weren't the better team. It didn't matter the in fighting or anything else. Come game day it was we are Carlton **** you for challenging us. We will win.

Clubs finally figured out salary caps and the draft how about we get a lightning rod. Tbh I thought Voss might be that but the amount of insipid milestone games and rivalry games..... He isn't.

Give me Kouta. Couldn't care less about credentials. Get some up and coming assistants. Make it carlton.

And I'm not an old boy yearning for the old days. I'm a 31 year old who looks at a soulless club behaving like St Kilda. Placing as much reverance and pride into playing for the club as St Kilda do. We are carlton. **** you.

 

[jj1978]

To answer the thread title.

Kouta

The club needs a uniter. Someone who can get some passion back into the jumper. We all know 1999. We beat Essendon because we willed it. We weren't the better team. It didn't matter the in fighting or anything else. Come game day it was we are Carlton **** you for challenging us. We will win.

Clubs finally figured out salary caps and the draft how about we get a lightning rod. Tbh I thought Voss might be that but the amount of insipid milestone games and rivalry games..... He isn't.

Give me Kouta. Couldn't care less about credentials. Get some up and coming assistants. Make it carlton.

And I'm not an old boy yearning for the old days. I'm a 31 year old who looks at a soulless club behaving like St Kilda. Placing as much reverance and pride into playing for the club as St Kilda do. We are carlton. **** you.

Don't think Kouta is that type. On field yes, but as a speaker or getting people together not sure. I'd think maybe someone like Adrian Hickmott, bring in support coaches like Kade Simpson, Fev, Doc (retire him)... (note Hickmott and Kade and Ratten assistants at Hawks.... )

Ratten should've been our Hardwick where he was given another year or two to prove his worth.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Really… game is 5 mins away & this is the trending thread?

Trolls gunna troll!

 

[CarmenSandiego]

To answer the thread title.

Kouta

The club needs a uniter. Someone who can get some passion back into the jumper. We all know 1999. We beat Essendon because we willed it. We weren't the better team. It didn't matter the in fighting or anything else. Come game day it was we are Carlton **** you for challenging us. We will win.

Clubs finally figured out salary caps and the draft how about we get a lightning rod. Tbh I thought Voss might be that but the amount of insipid milestone games and rivalry games..... He isn't.

Give me Kouta. Couldn't care less about credentials. Get some up and coming assistants. Make it carlton.

And I'm not an old boy yearning for the old days. I'm a 31 year old who looks at a soulless club behaving like St Kilda. Placing as much reverance and pride into playing for the club as St Kilda do. We are carlton. **** you.

Ahhh….. yeah, no mate

 

[james Dean]

Why is the senior coach listening to instructions from a player (Newman)?

 

[NavySteel]

Bookmark me. You’ll hear it:

“Needed to be a little bit cleaner forward of centre”… “we won the inside 50s”… “we didn’t take our chances when we had them”

That is the rhetoric of a coach that has no answers for his system.

His team has given up leads of
41
16
24

In consecutive weeks.

“Didn’t take our chances”, “effort was there”…

Gotta go, bro.

Go horse or something. Have some actual vision and a strategic brain.

 

[jj1978]

Bookmark me. You’ll hear it:

“Needed to be a little bit cleaner forward of centre”… “we won the inside 50s”… “we didn’t take our chances when we had them”

That is the rhetoric of a coach that has no answers for his system.

His team has given up leads of
41
16
24

In consecutive weeks.

“Didn’t take our chances”, “effort was there”…

Gotta go, bro.

Go horse or something. Have some actual vision and a strategic brain.

He's a horrid coach. Time for him to go pat them all on the back for executing his crappy gameplan to a tee.

 

[MrBronson]

I’ve never been a sack a coach guy before! But think I’m in that corner now!

 

[CCurnow3votes]

He's a horrid coach. Time for him to go pat them all on the back for executing his crappy gameplan to a tee.

Surely you could see the tactical change this week - what did you notice we did different?

 

[Carl]

Another wasted year.

Voss must go ASAP. Still can't figure out why he wasn't sacked last year. Too many friends on the board.

I'd be praying Longmire is stupid enough to coach us.

 

[sparkybagger]

Utterly predictable outcome going into the last. Bevo made the captain obvious adjustment in the second half and Voss remains clueless.

 

[Blue4Life]

Voss last game next week spewing I can’t go for him but hope we get slaughtered…and I only want that because it’s the best thing for the club

 

[Carl]

Voss last game next week spewing I can’t go for him but hope we get slaughtered…and I only want that because it’s the best thing for the club

Short term pain for hopefully long term gain.

Pity the board have no balls.

 

[jj1978]

Surely you could see the tactical change this week - what did you notice we did different?

Nothing, just a few positional changes but we've been attempting the run and gun gameplan early in games which seems to tire us out and we go back to old faithful.