St Kilda - time to get your house in order

[demondavey]

****in oath, and North, the bulldogs etc ...
It was a great deal.
Get 30,000 minimum or cut us a check monday for 100K plus or so.
Oh..and here is a bunch of home games against low drawing/interstate clubs just to sweeten the deal.
You see, the St.KFC pissed of the AFL circa 2004-2007. And the AFL bites hard.
Dont take on city hall, they will make you pay..and not just with $$$.

Was that the Rod Butters and Grant Thomas arrogance?

 

[mr bagcroft]

Unfortunately in the way the AFL runs the fixture, yes. Win more games you get Friday nights. Its a crap system.

Not really.
...cause Carlton.
Had 6 or so last year, plus (or including) Thursday.
Its all $$ based, and all about how good at licking AFL arse. Seriously.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Was that the Rod Butters and Grant Thomas arrogance?

Bingo.
Didnt help Butters was all coke'd up the whole time either. That by his own admission affected decisions made. Badly.

 

[Quivorir]

Not really.
...cause Carlton.
Had 6 or so last year, plus (or including) Thursday.
Its all $$ based, and all about how good at licking AFL arse. Seriously.

Carlton had one Friday night game last year. It was the year before they were on every bloody week. I guess that comes with being part of the supposed "Big 4". Unfortunately clubs like us, Saints, Dogs, etc will only get Friday nights by winning games.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

It would also help our profit and loss if we weren't screwed on the Etihad deal where it's almost impossible to make a decent profit on home games.

I thought the situation with the Etihad deal would have improved after the AFL bought the stadium?

 

[mr bagcroft]

Carlton had one Friday night game last year. It was the year before they were on every bloody week. I guess that comes with being part of the supposed "Big 4". Unfortunately clubs like us, Saints, Dogs, etc will only get Friday nights by winning games.

True. Saints got a decent run at Friday nights mid 2000's. Winning helps your right.
I believe Carlton also has a mass of Friday nights this year dont they?
If so, I hope they are a bit more entertaining this year. Fair chance they will be.

 

[mr bagcroft]

I thought the situation with the Etihad deal would have improved after the AFL bought the stadium?

Youd think so wouldnt you??!
But this is the AFL mate. They are not the good fair citizens of sports administration they would like you to think they are. No siree.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Leaving Tasmania was baffling, and it doesn't feel like St Kilda are really invested in creating a fan base outside Melbourne, which is strange. It's fine if you're a big club like Collingwood or Essendon, but the saints aren't that.

I'm genuinely curious how Seaford stuffed them up, I believe the reports, I just don't understand how a training ground change can cause that much damage!

Tassie at the time was seen in a similar light to clubs like mine selling games to darwin or cairns. My recollection is as soon as st kilda started to improve on field in 04 (ish) they pulled the pin as they thought they no longer needed the money.

I moved to tassie in 03 and was surprised how many Tasmanians followed st kilda. If you look at what hawthorn and now north are doing there i can only imagine how successful st kilda would have been it they stayed the journey given the already large fan base.

As for the seaford issues a saints supported would be better positioned to answer that. I suspect fan engagement is part of the problem.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Also, you are trying to undo 17 years of damage. Wont be done in half a year or so.
I just want to state for the record to, St.Kilda is responsible for these decisions that affect their finances for the most part, and as much hatred as I have for the AFL admin itself, you ultimately drive your own ship and future.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Tassie at the time was seen in a similar light to clubs like mine selling games to darwin or cairns. My recollection is as soon as st kilda started to improve on field in 04 (ish) they pulled the pin as they thought they no longer needed the money.

I moved to tassie in 03 and was surprised how many Tasmanians followed st kilda. If you look at what hawthorn and now north are doing there i can only imagine how successful st kilda would have been it they stayed the journey given the already large fan base.

As for the seaford issues a saints supported would be better positioned to answer that. I suspect fan engagement is part of the problem.

Fan engagement is a MASSIVE problem at the saints. They have some real issues there.
Family day (when you sell big numbers of memberships) was held on a fricking week night !!
Yeah, got some issues to sort out with the guys in the marketing department down there.

 

[Quivorir]

True. Saints got a decent run at Friday nights mid 2000's. Winning helps your right.
I believe Carlton also has a mass of Friday nights this year dont they?
If so, I hope they are a bit more entertaining this year. Fair chance they will be.

Yeah 5 Thursday/Friday night games. Still too many.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Its worrying the AFL because they know they can’t keep up subsidising clubs like they have been and the pot to bail out clubs with debt isn’t infinite. Despite a cracking rights deal last time, globally TV rights income is declining. This is what the AFL is worried about - there will be a point that they can’t and won’t bail out a club that has a significant debt it can’t repay. This isn’t a whack at st kilda so to speak but a telegraph to the comp as a whole.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Tassie at the time was seen in a similar light to clubs like mine selling games to darwin or cairns. My recollection is as soon as st kilda started to improve on field in 04 (ish) they pulled the pin as they thought they no longer needed the money.

I moved to tassie in 03 and was surprised how many Tasmanians followed st kilda. If you look at what hawthorn and now north are doing there i can only imagine how successful st kilda would have been it they stayed the journey given the already large fan base.

As for the seaford issues a saints supported would be better positioned to answer that. I suspect fan engagement is part of the problem.

We were still playing games there in 06 to my memory, maybe even 07.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Its worrying the AFL because they know they can’t keep up subsidising clubs like they have been and the pot to bail out clubs with debt isn’t infinite. Despite a cracking rights deal last time, globally TV rights income is declining. This is what the AFL is worried about - there will be a point that they can’t and won’t bail out a club that has a significant debt it can’t repay. This isn’t a whack at st kilda so to speak but a telegraph to the comp as a whole.

Agreed. And media deals overseas are showing this trend. I think the comp will have to have less teams at some stage.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Personally my biggest fear for football is not money concerns for clubs.
If we get into the area of mid season draughts with loaning of players to other clubs, thats where footy dies. Done and dusted. At least for people of my age Im guessing.
Thats a change of culture and I will just not cop and thats when I will jump ship.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Figures from Lagi on the Industry board

2017 Interest Bearing Debt both current & non current reported so far by 15 clubs is as follows:

Adelaide $1,212,891
Brisbane $7,300,000
Carlton $6,367,329
Collingwood $1,600,000
Essendon $6,900,000
Fremantle $1,000,000
Geelong $4,190,245
Gold Coast $1,590,000
Hawthorn $9,245,000 Consolidated Accounts. Football club = zero.
Melbourne $4,128,800
Port Adelaide $6,261,495
Richmond $----
St Kilda $6,302,234
West Coast $---
Western Bulldogs $---

It seems St. Kilda's level of debt isn't the issue, but their ability to pay it may be. They should play more Friday night games, it's their own fault they don't /sarcasm.

Gil pointed out that st kilda has mostly bad debt. Debt that hasnt been used to invest in increased revenue. There is debt and then there is debt.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Who is throwing stones? This thread was started by someone simply quoting the AFL CEO. All the Saints fans just came in here having a tantrum and deflecting.

Its off season, what else am I going to do on a slow day at work. Come on man!

 

[L_W_P]

Can we merge with Hawthorn out at Dingley then?

 

[Engimal v3]

****in oath, and North, the bulldogs etc ...
It was a great deal.
Get 30,000 minimum or cut us a check monday for 100K plus or so.
Oh..and here is a bunch of home games against low drawing/interstate clubs just to sweeten the deal.

Yeah, used to dread North getting Sunday arvo for this reason. It'd absolutely **** us.

 

[hoianbulldog]

****in oath, and North, the bulldogs etc ...
It was a great deal.
Get 30,000 minimum or cut us a check monday for 100K plus or so.
Oh..and here is a bunch of home games against low drawing/interstate clubs just to sweeten the deal.
You see, the St.KFC pissed of the AFL circa 2004-2007. And the AFL bites hard.
Dont take on city hall, they will make you pay..and not just with $$$.

I remember the hype around docklands opening and how it would be the saviour of both our clubs. We got shafted as did north.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Yeah, used to dread North getting Sunday arvo for this reason. It'd absolutely **** us.

OH! Thank you. Yes I forgot to add, like you guys and others....ON ****ING SUNDAYS! Either 1pm or twilight. Just gorgeous.

 

[chiwigi]

Gil pointed out that st kilda has mostly bad debt. Debt that hasnt been used to invest in increased revenue. There is debt and then there is debt.

That is basically money the AFL has loaned a club...which is usually a result of a shafting somewhere down the line.

 

[chiwigi]

Its worrying the AFL because they know they can’t keep up subsidising clubs like they have been and the pot to bail out clubs with debt isn’t infinite. Despite a cracking rights deal last time, globally TV rights income is declining. This is what the AFL is worried about - there will be a point that they can’t and won’t bail out a club that has a significant debt it can’t repay. This isn’t a whack at st kilda so to speak but a telegraph to the comp as a whole.

Yet they continually raise the salary cap and invest in items such as AFLW, AFLX, GC and GWS.

It can't be both.

 

[mr bagcroft]

I remember the hype around docklands opening and how it would be the saviour of both our clubs. We got shafted as did north.

I believe Essendon were the only ones to copa sweet deal due to signing on first.
Losing our home grounds and being forced to play out of Etihad, put the power right back into the AFL's hands. They had the clubs right where they wanted them, and this point wasnt anything to do with money either.
Anyone who is old enough to have gone to their clubs games at their home ground back in the day, knows just how hard this was to cop. Really hard.

 

[Engimal v3]

I remember the hype around docklands opening and how it would be the saviour of both our clubs. We got shafted as did north.

Yep, the breakeven figure was so silly. North ended up making more getting 10,000-15,000 in Hobart.