I dont know how many people here are actually members of the club but i suspect that a lot would become members if they could get a seat. I went friday to the richmond game and sat in the stands. Let me tell you at half time i wished i hadnt. It was so cold and the available food was also cold . I know there is not a lot we can do about our old krap stadium as this government and previous governments keep passing the but. But hey how about we get some decent caterers that provide hot food. Seriously i thought a subi re-development would suffice but time we leveled the old girl and started again. For those awaiting memberships good luck as the average wait is now 7 - 8 seasons.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Stadium
- Thread starter ITS ME
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Came back from a footy weekend last weekend at Melb. Every WA man should try to go to Melb at least once in their lifetime, just so that they can truly comprehend how much of a $hit-hole disgrace Subi is.
While I agree that we need a new stadium, there is nothing however you can do about it being cold. You can't do much about the weather. the food is a different story.
I have no issue re doing Subi as long as they do it right and for the future. if they just bandaid it then its a waste of money.
WCE Ebert #18
Senior List
yep went over to melbourne for the bulldogs game. Went to the G and Etihad, showed me just how rubbish subi really is!
philibuster
Debutant
i went to etihad stadium too and i thought it was magnificent,i had cheap tickets, but the view was incredible,especially when compared to my "premium" tickets at subi
i've lost all hope that we will ever get anything decent here in perth
i dont understand how WA earns all this money and yet cant afford anything,and yet melbourne seems to be able to have everything?
i dont get it!
i've lost all hope that we will ever get anything decent here in perth
i dont understand how WA earns all this money and yet cant afford anything,and yet melbourne seems to be able to have everything?
i dont get it!
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
I love the dome - just such an awesome vewing stadium from wherever you sit!!!
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
Yeah, it's a dung heap.
But the previous government farted about with report after report rather than actually starting the building process, and the current government isn't spending a cent (except in the bush of course) so there's bugger all chance of anything happening in the near future.
But the previous government farted about with report after report rather than actually starting the building process, and the current government isn't spending a cent (except in the bush of course) so there's bugger all chance of anything happening in the near future.
I am quite sure that there are ways to build a good stadium without tax payers' money. The momey can come from, just to name a few:
1) Stadium share holder/member scheme (a bit like the MCC membership scheme):
1a) share holders pay a lump sum
1b) share holders have access to a certain type of activities held at the stadium for the next 40 years
1c) share holders can sell the share to other interest party.
2) plan the stadium with restaurants, shopping centres, appartments around. With the people flow generated, they can be sold as a concept.
3) Get experts like Westfield to get involve in business development.
I agree hospitals are important, but stadium can be built in parallel.
There is no way you are going to get enough of all that to make a stadium. Let's go with a $1b cost. That means you will need 10,000 people to buy "shares" for $100,000, not going to happen. Even if it is $10,000, you will still struggle to get 10,000 people.
Shopping centres will help it somewhat. But the site is probably only worth something like $100m as a pure shopping centre (ie no accommodation like at Claremont Quarter), so that is not going to help a great deal either. Particularly when you consider how awkward it would be to have a stadium in the middle of or on top of a shopping centre.
The best deal we can do is sell the land at the WACA (which is worth a lot, on the river and opposite Queens Park or whatever it is called) and combine the grounds. To maximise returns, we should probably then build the stadium out at East Perth (where the land is cheaper) and sell the Subi land. Subi land should be sold as part commercial (medium density) and part residential development (low and medium density - ie the same as subi centro).
juddy_Like
Norm Smith Medallist
Why would the WACA want to sell their ground and share a ground with the WAFL?
Unfortunately its not about money.. its about will.
What do they get? How about a new ground and not having to pay for maintenance 8 months of the year when it is sitting there unused. Also, the Government can just force it so that if they do not agree there is a law in place saying no money goes to them for their ground ever. You can easily do it if you hold them to ransom. It will still be worth it for them economically too as long as the Government allows the stadium to be largely paid for by taxpayers, with only relatively minimal rents. What are they going to do, pay to renovate their shit heap of a ground themselves? With all the money WA cricket has??
Why should the WACA have to help out football? You say the WACA has no money but they do have assets.
I am not sure the WACA have any obligation what so ever to help WA achieve a new football stadium. There interests are cricket.
Cricket and the trots own there turf, they were smart many years ago unlike our Football directors many years ago.
Having said that, why not approach the WACA to build that ground into the new stadium??? Its in the city where people want it, parking is an issue but can be resolved.
There are many scenarios, bottom line is that the government just are not going to do anything short term.
Its another blight on our state that we have these substandard facilities. Who cares about hospital waiting lists, the state of our schools etc etc. These are going to be issues for every government as long as we live. Once the stadium is built it is built. FFS build a new stadium so that I can take my whole family to a WCE game.
You have already answer part of the question:
1) a combination of them will make it close to $1b. Of course, it requires some good design/planning + careful estimation + govt support
2) You will be surprise many individuals/families/companies will pay more than $10,000 to get the share, if it lasts for 40 years or more and is transferrable. It is also an investment !
Plus a LOT of government support...
And you can't do every idea as some of them detract from each other.
The WACA is shit for public transport when only 15,000 people are going. How the hell are you going to get 60,000 people out of there? The train line is miles away.
Why would the WACA help football? They get a new stadium they can use throughout their whole season. Their stadium is a shithole. They get most of their ticketing money from the few international events a year, however they can't fit many people in there, so they limit their earning potential. They would still effectively own the ground for their season. The WAFC would for theirs. In exchange for the new stadium, both would give up their rights to their current stadiums. For future redevelopments they would also have much more pull on the government, being 2 of the more dominate sports in the state.
And the WAFC does own Subi, at least they have pretty much infinite management rights to it (a 99 year lease or something). This is why they don't have to move if they don't want to. They have to agree to anything.
The WACA don't want to share with football. They don't like drop in pitches and they are financially sound.
Your idea is good though Greenick, its just never going to happen. And while Football attracts the biggest crowds the reality is that the WACA are not going to give up what they own for the benefit of football.
Yes the WAFC have the lease at Subi, but they own nothing.
The SANFL actually own Football Park and that is why they are streets ahead of us.
And I said Transport can be resolved, not that it was fine so no need to shut down a comment without reading it.
Where ever this stadium ends up and my guess is that it will be at Subiaco then transport will be an issue for some and not for others.
Like thousands of others everytime I go to Subiaco I have no idea where I will park, but in the end you find somewhere, pay the 10 or 20 dollars and get on with life.
Anytime you get 50k of people going anywhere you will have transport issues.
People keep saying that Melbourne don't have this problem are just fooling themselves, I have been there 4 times this year and its no issue as a visitor because you just get the tram, but if you live over there and have to drive in then you will have similar issues, maybe nopt as bad but still there. Next time you go to the G stand and watch the cars as they move, takes ages for them to get anywhere.
We all agree we want something done, its going to be Subiaco and I am happy with that as long as its not a bandaid but a full ob refurbishment/rebuild as done at the MCG.
Masten_Magic
Club Legend
greenick
your point of the waca not being used all year round is completely off the mark
i go to the waca three times a week atm
and it is always getting used
for such things as state youth squads
or even for english premier league teams to train on while here
your point of the waca not being used all year round is completely off the mark
i go to the waca three times a week atm
and it is always getting used
for such things as state youth squads
or even for english premier league teams to train on while here
Parking should never be an issue at Eagles or Dockers games. There is a train line 300 metres walk from the gate for crying out loud. There is no reason why anyone should drive to a game. For goodness sake you even get free travel on your ticket!
As far as the location is concerned....
I know everybody cried that it is not in the centre of the city, but the stadium should have been or should be built at the Armadale Road Junction of the Kwinana Freeway. It is 11 minutes from the city by train. Less if they run a special express train to the football. There are hectares of land available for car parking, and Cockburn is being turned into a new Joondalup. The only other place that is even close to as good as this is Burswood, and that is not going to happen. Every other location has space, parking, public transport or council issues. City of Cockburn was standing here with open arms saying WE WILL DO IT. For what? Now we get to wait another 20 years and when it finally gets done, it will be twice as expensive as this or the one at Kitchener would be.
As far as the location is concerned....
I know everybody cried that it is not in the centre of the city, but the stadium should have been or should be built at the Armadale Road Junction of the Kwinana Freeway. It is 11 minutes from the city by train. Less if they run a special express train to the football. There are hectares of land available for car parking, and Cockburn is being turned into a new Joondalup. The only other place that is even close to as good as this is Burswood, and that is not going to happen. Every other location has space, parking, public transport or council issues. City of Cockburn was standing here with open arms saying WE WILL DO IT. For what? Now we get to wait another 20 years and when it finally gets done, it will be twice as expensive as this or the one at Kitchener would be.
Public transport is NOT an option for everyone. No matter what the facility is, people in Perth will require some parking arrangements on site.
The Kwinana Motorplex, despite being one of the best speedway facilities in the world (after previously being in Claremont which was a merely average facility, if that), has been a mild success at best. It's lucky it combines both drag racing and speedway.
Face it, Cockburn is simply not central enough to attract people from all regions consistently. Personally, I'd be far less inclined to travel to Cockburn over Burswood, East Perth or even Subiaco.
Public transport is NOT an option for everyone. No matter what the facility is, people in Perth will require some parking arrangements on site.
I think the word "want" should be substituted for "require".
There is not a suburb in Perth that is not at most a 25 minute drive from a train station. I can see why certain members of a community would need transport straight to the game. But not an able bodied family. I see 50-80 year old folks on the train to the games all the time. I took my ten year old daughter and 12 year old son, both Autistic on the train to a game each this year. The only people who, in my opinion, mind you, need door to door transport are people who are wheelchair bound. The public transport system here in Perth is not perfect (far from it), but it is adequate to get anyone with the will to try to the gate in an hour or less.
AND
The difference between Kwinana Motorplex, and the Cockburn location for the stadium is, The Kwinana Motorplex really is stuck out in an armpit area of Perth, with only a two lane road (Anketell) going to it. On the contrary, the Cockburn Stadium was going to be RIGHT at a major freeway interchange, RIGHT next to a Humungous Park and Ride and Train Station.
I think the word "want" should be substituted for "require".
There is not a suburb in Perth that is not at most a 25 minute drive from a train station. I can see why certain members of a community would need transport straight to the game. But not an able bodied family. I see 50-80 year old folks on the train to the games all the time. I took my ten year old daughter and 12 year old son, both Autistic on the train to a game each this year. The only people who, in my opinion, mind you, need door to door transport are people who are wheelchair bound. The public transport system here in Perth is not perfect (far from it), but it is adequate to get anyone with the will to try to the gate in an hour or less.
AND
The difference between Kwinana Motorplex, and the Cockburn location for the stadium is, The Kwinana Motorplex really is stuck out in an armpit area of Perth, with only a two lane road (Anketell) going to it. On the contrary, the Cockburn Stadium was going to be RIGHT at a major freeway interchange, RIGHT next to a Humungous Park and Ride and Train Station.
There has to be a compromise. We live in a low density city with rampant urban sprawl and a public transport network with many blackspots.
I'm not going to double my travel time, increase my inconvenience, decrease my comfort and leave my vehicle in a dodgy area with poor lighting and security for the sake of a few dollars going to a footy game.
None of us require food and drinks at the footy either, we want them, but surely you're not going to be pedantic over the definition of words?
If the public transport in my area was better, there was sufficient security and lighting along my train line and it didn't take 30 minutes waiting for a train at Subi after the game, I might consider it.
Until then parking is required for a number of people in various situations.
It's relative to the size of the crowd the events attract. The comparison is very valid.
"WHERE" is not the major issue at the moment. The justification is all driven by future cashflows and current cashflows. If land is available, the closer to the CBD, the better as most of the required facilities are already in place; for example: hotels, restaurants. As the stadium is getting bigger and involving in international/national events, you do need a lot of these facilities. In addition, the CBD has the ability to hold the crowd before and after the game. The crowd will spend $ (The power of "peopleflow")
However, if land is not alvailable near to the CBD, the Homebush and the AMMI Stadium models can be considered. I think, East Perth is still the best choice, with:
1) 2 railway lines nearby
2) Claisbrook for future development
3) Belmont Park for parking and future development
4) Bursewood not far away.
However, if land is not alvailable near to the CBD, the Homebush and the AMMI Stadium models can be considered. I think, East Perth is still the best choice, with:
1) 2 railway lines nearby
2) Claisbrook for future development
3) Belmont Park for parking and future development
4) Bursewood not far away.
