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That's a great stat about ladder symmetry, emuboy.
The WANFL ladder after Round 11, 1972, had a magnificent symmetry.
1. Claremont 9-2
2. East Perth 8-3
3. West Perth 7-4
4. East Fremantle 6-5
5. Perth 5-6
6. South Fremantle 4-7
7. Subiaco 3-8
8. Swan Districts 2-9
Coincidentally, after each WAFL team has played 11 games in 2023, Claremont (9-2) is currently top and East Perth is 8-3 (second).
As a diehard East Perth supporter, and given that we won the 1972 premiership, I hope the current 1-2 ladder positions are a good omen for another blue-and-black flag.
 
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By managing a draw against Geelong after its 171-point mauling of West Coast, Sydney avoided setting the record for biggest win followed by a loss.

That record is still held by Essendon, who beat South Melbourne by 165 points in Round 18 of 1964 before losing the First Semi Final to Geelong by 19 points the next week.

For Home & Away games only, the record is held by Brisbane Bears, who beat Sydney by 162 points in Round 8 of 1993 before losing their next game (after coming off a bye) against Adelaide by 37 points.
 

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FitzroyPete said:
That's a great stat about ladder symmetry, emuboy.
The WANFL ladder after Round 11, 1972, had a magnificent symmetry.
1. Claremont 9-2
2. East Perth 8-3
3. West Perth 7-4
4. East Fremantle 6-5
5. Perth 5-6
6. South Fremantle 4-7
7. Subiaco 3-8
8. Swan Districts 2-9
Coincidentally, after each WAFL team has played 11 games in 2023, Claremont (9-2) is currently top and East Perth is 8-3 (second).
As a diehard East Perth supporter, and given that we won the 1972 premiership, I hope the current 1-2 ladder positions are a good omen for another blue-and-black flag.
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Swans on the bottom of the ladder isn't a surprise. Subi won the flag in 1973. Quick rise.
 
North park said:
By managing a draw against Geelong after its 171-point mauling of West Coast, Sydney avoided setting the record for biggest win followed by a loss.

That record is still held by Essendon, who beat South Melbourne by 165 points in Round 18 of 1964 before losing the First Semi Final to Geelong by 19 points the next week.

For Home & Away games only, the record is held by Brisbane Bears, who beat Sydney by 162 points in Round 8 of 1993 before losing their next game (after coming off a bye) against Adelaide by 37 points.
Click to expand...

In other high-level leagues, in the 1986 VFA First Division the Williamstown Seagulls thrashed the uncompetitive and winless Camberwell Cobras by a mind-boggling 315-points, but the next week lost to the Frankston Dolphins by 5-points. Even more remarkable was the WAFL in 1987, where in Round 10 the West Perth Falcons trounced the South Fremantle Bulldogs by 210-points (37.17-239 to 4.5-29), but a week later in Round 11 the Falcons provided little more than a training drill for top team Claremont, the Tigers tearing West Perth apart by 96-points.
 
I've put this on BF before. I hope it wasn't here.

Subi kicked 20 goals against Swans in 1979 and lost by 20 goals. Has to be a unique event among the major leagues.
 
sdfc said:
Swans on the bottom of the ladder isn't a surprise. Subi won the flag in 1973. Quick rise.
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There were a number of WAFL teams in this era that seemed determined to give their fans whiplash:

  • South Fremantle were last in 1969, rose to win the premiership in 1970, back to 6th in 1971 and last again in 1972.
  • West Perth lost the 1973 Grand Final to Subiaco as hot favorites, slumped to last in 1974, then back to the top of the ladder in 1975 and Grand Final victory over South Fremantle by a massive 104-points.
  • Claremont were minor premiers and runners up to East Perth in 1972, but finished last in 1973.
  • Perth were runners-up in 1970 but slipped to 6th in 1971, before rising to make the 1974 Grand Final which was lost to East Fremantle. They finished 6th in 1975, before rising to make three successive Grand Finals, the Demons winning in 1976 and 1977.
  • Swan Districts were second on the ladder in 1975 after a few other promising seasons but slumped to second last in 1976 and struggled for the rest of the decade.
 
emuboy said:
There were a number of WAFL teams in this era that seemed determined to give their fans whiplash:

  • South Fremantle were last in 1969, rose to win the premiership in 1970, back to 6th in 1971 and last again in 1972.
  • West Perth lost the 1973 Grand Final to Subiaco as hot favorites, slumped to last in 1974, then back to the top of the ladder in 1975 and Grand Final victory over South Fremantle by a massive 104-points.
  • Claremont were minor premiers and runners up to East Perth in 1972, but finished last in 1973.
  • Perth were runners-up in 1970 but slipped to 6th in 1971, before rising to make the 1974 Grand Final which was lost to East Fremantle. They finished 6th in 1975, before rising to make three successive Grand Finals, the Demons winning in 1976 and 1977.
  • Swan Districts were second on the ladder in 1975 after a few other promising seasons but slumped to second last in 1976 and struggled for the rest of the decade.
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1975 was the year I learned to despise WP. Thrashed Swans in the second semi and then really thrashed South (my parents team) in the GF.

Perth played in 8 GFs in 13 years and have been shit ever since.
 
sdfc said:
I've put this on BF before. I hope it wasn't here.

Subi kicked 20 goals against Swans in 1979 and lost by 20 goals. Has to be a unique event among the major leagues.
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Woodville SANFL kicked 19.14 against South Adelaide in 1984 and lost by 20 goals.

A small crumb of comfort, the Woodpeckers (as they were known) did win the last quarter, 11.4.70 to 10.2.62!

(Footnote: the previous year Woodville also kicked 19.14 v West Adelaide, this time only a 15 goal loss.)
 
Sydney are currently in 15th position with a percentage of 110.8. This is the highest percentage any 15th-placed team has ever possessed after having played 16 games, with the previous highest percentage being 92.5 by Fremantle in 1999.
The previous highest percentage by a 15th-placed team was 100.1, also by Sydney after round 10, 2017. Sydney did not play the following week due to having a bye and thus slipped to 16th with a percentage of 100.1 after round 11.
 
The AFL gave a joint Rising Star nomination in Round 22, 2003, to Ashley McGrath (Brisbane) and Matthew Lokan (Collingwood). It was the first time – and remains, as of 2023, the only time – in history where two players were nominated in the one round.

A casual observer may assume that the AFL thought that both McGrath and Lokan would be in with a chance of winning the overall award and required a weekly nomination to be eligible, so despite there being only one round remaining in the regular season, nominated both players to give them the opportunity. In reality, neither played polled a vote in the overall count.

Shifter Sheehan said at the time: "Both were in the running for a nomination during the closing weeks of the season and when both played well in the final round we thought it best to share the final nomination. Matthew Lokan played all 22 games during his debut year, in a side that contested last year's Grand Final, and was particularly good on Damian Cupido in Friday night's game. Ash McGrath has broken into the dual premiership side and kicked six goals on Saturday night and both efforts could not be overlooked."

This statistical anomaly – which actually prevents some archival websites like Footywire from presenting the correct information – is unlikely to ever be repeated. You can read the full source article here.
 
worbod said:
Sydney are currently in 15th position with a percentage of 110.8. This is the highest percentage any 15th-placed team has ever possessed after having played 16 games, with the previous highest percentage being 92.5 by Fremantle in 1999.
The previous highest percentage by a 15th-placed team was 100.1, also by Sydney after round 10, 2017. Sydney did not play the following week due to having a bye and thus slipped to 16th with a percentage of 100.1 after round 11.
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So Sydney have beaten one of our records.
 
Most players who have played for the following two clubs:

Melbourne-St. Kilda: 81
St. Kilda-South Melbourne/Sydney: 74
Carlton-Fitzroy: 66
Carlton-St. Kilda: 66
Carlton-Melbourne: 59
Richmond-South Melbourne/Sydney: 59
Collingwood-Richmond: 58
Melbourne-South Melbourne/Sydney: 58
Richmond-St. Kilda: 56
Melbourne-Richmond: 55
Fitzroy-St. Kilda: 53
Collingwood-Fitzroy: 52
Essendon-St. Kilda: 52
South Melbourne/Sydney-Western Bulldogs: 52
Collingwood-South Melbourne/Sydney: 51
Essendon-North Melbourne: 51
Fitzroy-South Melbourne/Sydney: 50
Hawthorn-St. Kilda: 50
North Melbourne-Western Bulldogs: 50

Don't judge my selections, but here is a quick "Melb Kilda" team:

B - James Frawley, Jamie Shanahan, Shane Grambeau
HB - Stephen Newport, Robert Elliot, David Grant
MF - Frank Kelly, Stephen Powell, Luke Dunstan
HF - Percy Tulloh, Rod Owen, Luke Beveridge
F - Harry Moyes, Mark Jackson, Brian Wilson
Fol - Carl Ditterich, Paul Callery, Col Deane
I/C - Steven Clark, Vic Cumberland, Allan Davis, Dean Kent
Coach - George Heinz
 

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Connor7395 said:
Most players who have played for the following two clubs:

Melbourne-St. Kilda: 81
St. Kilda-South Melbourne/Sydney: 74
Carlton-Fitzroy: 66
Carlton-St. Kilda: 66
Carlton-Melbourne: 59
Richmond-South Melbourne/Sydney: 59
Collingwood-Richmond: 58
Melbourne-South Melbourne/Sydney: 58
Richmond-St. Kilda: 56
Melbourne-Richmond: 55
Fitzroy-St. Kilda: 53
Collingwood-Fitzroy: 52
Essendon-St. Kilda: 52
South Melbourne/Sydney-Western Bulldogs: 52
Collingwood-South Melbourne/Sydney: 51
Essendon-North Melbourne: 51
Fitzroy-South Melbourne/Sydney: 50
Hawthorn-St. Kilda: 50
North Melbourne-Western Bulldogs: 50

Don't judge my selections, but here is a quick "Melb Kilda" team:

B - James Frawley, Jamie Shanahan, Shane Grambeau
HB - Stephen Newport, Robert Elliot, David Grant
MF - Frank Kelly, Stephen Powell, Luke Dunstan
HF - Percy Tulloh, Rod Owen, Luke Beveridge
F - Harry Moyes, Mark Jackson, Brian Wilson
Fol - Carl Ditterich, Paul Callery, Col Deane
I/C - Steven Clark, Vic Cumberland, Allan Davis, Dean Kent
Coach - George Heinz
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This is an amazing list Connor7395, it's incredible how many players have been both Demons and Saints in their careers.

Some teams tend to exchange players more than others, even among the newer expansion clubs. For example in the 28 years of the Fremantle Dockers they have had a lot of players who joined from North Melbourne, or who would leave for the Kangaroos after a stint at Fremantle. There have also been quite a few Dockers who also played for Melbourne and Sydney.

Collingwood and Richmond traded a lot of players back in the 1980s so little wonder they appear. I noticed Hawthorn and St Kilda on the list and remember in the early 1990s a number of Hawthorn players departing for St Kilda. Although not on the list, Fitzroy and Hawthorn also exchanged quite a few players in the early 1990s.

At the other end of the scale, of the Victorian clubs and Sydney/South Melbourne, are there any teams where players representing both are remarkably few in number? One that came to mind is Hawthorn and Collingwood. There's Tom Mitchell now who was traded to the Magpies by the Hawks at the end of 2022, and back in the mid-late 1990s ex-Hawk Dermott Brereton had a 1 year stint at Collingwood in 1995 to finish his career after a failed season at Sydney in 1994; while Alex McDonald, Hawthorn's No 1 draft pick from 1988 left the Hawks for the Magpies at the end of the 1995 season and played for Collingwood from 1996-1999. But apart from that I'm struggling to name any other players who represented both Collingwood and Hawthorn in their careers.
 
[QUOTE="emuboy, post: 80502099, member:

One that came to mind is Hawthorn and Collingwood. There's Tom Mitchell now who was traded to the Magpies by the Hawks at the end of 2022, and back in the mid-late 1990s ex-Hawk Dermott Brereton had a 1 year stint at Collingwood in 1995 to finish his career after a failed season at Sydney in 1994; while Alex McDonald, Hawthorn's No 1 draft pick from 1988 left the Hawks for the Magpies at the end of the 1995 season and played for Collingwood from 1996-1999. But apart from that I'm struggling to name any other players who represented both Collingwood and Hawthorn in their careers.
[/QUOTE]

There have been some others, albeit mostly fairly low profile. From Hawks to Pies: Glenn Howard (mid 80’s), Scott Crow, Shannon Gibson, Jason Taylor (all mid 90’s).
From Pies to Hawks: Tony Woods, Jon Hassall ( late 90’s - early ‘00s).

Max Lynch is of course another very recent example.

Darren Millane trained at Hawthorn, but didn’t like the atmosphere (apparently) and was never on Hawthorn’s list.
 
From a Hawthorn perspective, Collingwood is the biggest 'shared players' club after St Kilda ,with 37.

Jackson, Jim
McKenzie, A. Stan D.
Splatt, Clem
Utting, Ern
Jobson, Jack F.
Minogue, Dan
Henry, William
Barker, Fred
Hughson, Les W.
Harris, John D.
Twomey, Bill
Asling, Frank
Albiston, Harold
Seedsman, Bill
Carter, George
Booth, Francis V.
Carmody, Jack H.
Doherty, Vin
Dalkin, William
Swenson, Clarrie
Morgan, Dave
Coghlan, Kevin
McLean, Kevin
Bremner, Ian L.
Howard, Glenn
Brereton, Dermott
McDonald, Alex
Taylor, Jason
Crow, Scott
Woods, Tony
Gibson, Shannon
Hassall, Jon
Nixon, Bo
Young, Clinton
Mitchell, Tom
Phillips, Tom
Lynch, Max
 
Last active VFL/AFL players per draft/player acquisition period and last year of play:

2004: Lance Franklin: 2023.
2003: David Mundy: 2022.
2002: Kade Simpson: 2020.
2001: Gary Ablett Jr: 2020.
2000: Shaun Burgoyne: 2021.
1999: Bob Murphy: 2017.
1998: Lenny Hayes: 2014.
1997: Adam Goodes: 2015.
1996: Michael Gardiner and Cameron Mooney: 2011.
1995: Brent Harvey: 2016.
1994: Jason Akermanis, Andrew McLeod and Tyson Edwards: 2010.
1993: Brad Johnson: 2010.
1992: Dustin Fletcher: 2015.
1991: Shane Crawford: 2008.
1990: James Hird and Matthew Clarke: 2007.
1989: Paul Williams and Gavin Wanganeen: 2006.
1988: Chris Grant: 2007.
1987: Brendon Gale: 2001.
1986: Alastair Lynch: 2004.
1982: Greg Anderson and David Grant: 1996.
1981: John Platten: 1997.
 
In 1987, Hawthorn used 30 players. 29 of them kicked at least one goal. The odd one out was Robert Handley, who kicked one behind against West Coast.

In 1988, West Coast used 33 players. 32 of them kicked at least one goal. The odd one out was Guy McKenna, who kicked three behinds, one each in three straight games.

As far as I know, I don't think a VFL/AFL team's entire playing list kicked a goal in a season and these two instances are the closest we've ever gotten to perfection.
 
The Eagles loss to Adelaide in a high-scoring match in Perth last night coupled with an upset win by North Melbourne (winless since Round 2) over the Gold Coast Suns earlier in the day in Hobart consigned the West Coast Eagles to the 2023 Wooden Spoon.

In the WAFL things were even worse for the Eagles, with their WAFL team receiving their third consecutive last-placed finish with a 15-goal demolition by South Fremantle. The Eagles WAFL team was one of the worst teams ever seen at this level of football - winless with a percentage of 39.17 says it all - but they joined a rare club of winless wooden spoon teams that had a draw to their name, the Eagles managing to tie a game with the Perth Demons mid-season.

This is the first time this has happened in the WAFL. It happened in the SANFL once in 1926 to South Adelaide, once in the AFL/VFL coincidentally in 1926 with North Melbourne and twice in the VFL/VFA, Box Hill in 1951 and the Bendigo Diggers in 2002.
 
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Dear God

My apologies in advance for asking you questions that might appear frivolous when you have plenty of other things to worry about in the world today, but could you please offer some indication as to why you again stepped in yesterday and prevented the first ever final between Carlton and the Bulldogs?

True, Richmond and the Bulldogs have never met in a final series either but only once in 2020 did it look a chance that these teams would meet in September. Hawthorn and Richmond took until 2018 to meet in a finals series, while the Bulldogs and Fitzroy never met in a final from 1925-1996, but there have been a number of Brisbane Lions vs. Western Bulldogs finals games from 1997 onwards. These are interesting stats, however not overly strange.

But as for the Blues and the Bulldogs, there are so many cases of one team narrowly making the finals at the expense of the other (2022 a good example), narrow results and/or upsets in finals that kept the two teams from meeting or changes to finals formats where they would have played a final a year earlier it suggests some higher power is at work here. That the Bulldogs fellow 1925 entrants Hawthorn and North Melbourne both made their finals debuts against Carlton make it all the more peculiar.

Perhaps there are supernatural forces at work that I nor any other human could understand, terrible forces that could only be unleashed if Carlton and the Bulldogs play a final? Possibly the damage would be limited to Earth, and the day after the Blues and Bulldogs met in a finals match we would awaken to find the Earth had tipped over on its axis, so that Antarctica is at the North Pole and the Arctic at the South Pole, and the Earth now spinning west to east like Venus and Uranus? Then again the damage might be more widespread across the Solar System, with the Moon drifting out of Earth's gravitational pull and into space, the Sun expanding and consuming Mercury, Mars pelted by asteroids until it breaks into three pieces, Jupiter's red spot and Saturn's rings melting away in a matter of hours, Halley's Comet crashing into Neptune and Pluto sucked into a black hole? Or it might be so dangerous it affects the entire Milky Way and neighboring galaxies, a Carlton vs. Bulldogs final the catalyst for setting off a disturbance in the space-time continuum that causes chaos to the entire universe?

Lord, if you could please give us some sort of sign as to why a finals meeting between the Blues and Bulldogs is so dangerous and must be avoided at all costs then I promise not to bother you with any more questions.

Regards Emuboy
 
Jim Cullen (1899, 1904) is the only player to have played for three clubs but only played three games. He played one game for Essendon (1899), one game for South Melbourne (1899), and one game for Carlton (1904).

In fact, he was listed at Melbourne too, but never got a game.

Another interesting observation is that Cullen only ever saw his team kick 1 goal. Essendon and South Melbourne were held goalless in his solitary games with them, and Carlton kicked just 1 in his only game with them. All three games were either their team's biggest loss (Carlton and Essendon) or lowest score (South Melbourne and Essendon) in the VFL at the time.
 
VFL/AFL teams ranked by gaps between top 2 most games played for each club.

North Melbourne: 116.
Hawthorn: 94.
Collingwood: 68.*
Richmond: 56.
Port Adelaide: 48.*
St Kilda: 47.
Sydney: 47.
West Coast: 43.

Gold Coast: 28.
Footscray: 23.
Fremantle: 23.
Essendon: 22.
GWS: 20.
Adelaide: 19.
Carlton: 19.
University: 16.
Fitzroy + Brisbane Bears + Brisbane Lions: 11.
Geelong: 8.
Melbourne: 4.

*Denotes current players who are in the top 2 of club games who are playing in the finals.
 
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SANFL club West Adelaide continued possibly Australia's longest and worst ever premiership hangover by claiming the 2023 wooden spoon. After the enigmatic West Adelaide soared from 9th (second last) in 2014 to take out their first senior premiership since 1983 with a 32-point win over the Eagles in the 2015 Grand Final, the Bloods slipped from first to last in 2016 with 2-16 and were second last in 2017. They improved slightly with an 8-10 record and 8th place in 2018 but still nowhere near the finals. Since then it has all been downhill for Wests, with five successive wooden spoons in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023.
 
Collingwood's win over Melbourne in the Qualifying Final was the first time the Magpies had beaten the Demons in a final since the 1958 Grand Final - a gap of 65 years. Melbourne had won the 5 finals in between - 1960, 1964 (x2), 1988 and 1989.

This week, Carlton will be trying to beat Melbourne in a final for the first time since 1962 - a gap of 61 years. Melbourne has won the 3 finals since - 1988, 1994 and 2000.
 

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