Opinion Stephen Silvagni

[GapInIkonPark]

DRAFT

The 2 x number 10 picks McKay and O’Brien I think have silenced the doubters. One is a top few contested mark and the other is spoken about by the opposition at half time as the player they have to clamp down on.

SOS has nailed the earliest picks which cased Rogers and Hughes so much trouble selecting Weitering, SPS, Dow and Walsh.

Charlie really damaging and just needs to get over injury and perhaps a little more consistent. Cuningham looked the goods at times this year and also has to get over injury. Willa looked the goods in his first year and injury since.

Fisher a good get and holds his position in the 22.

So that’s 10 (with some to get over injury) that excite.


Other draftees

JSOS exceeds expectations for a number 53 draft pick. As time goes on he may well struggle to hold a position in the 22. His versatility and fight is what may well get him the last spot on the bench, otherwise very handy depth.

Macreadie is slow burn and if he stays then it is eventually Jones’ spot is the one he gets. Remember his first season playing 5 games from round 1 thinking how on earth did we snatch him where we did.

CamPo I think just hasn’t come on with us after high numbers in his first few VFL games. Has not done the same since. Has another year on contract, I do not hold high hopes.

Kerr I hope he gets a go at another club, fear he is behind too many with us.

Garlett, certainly worth the try as a draft pick but looking likely to be delisted.

TDK, I love this draft selection, bold and long term. Injury in VFL this year probably cost him senior games. Tracking well and body needs to develop. Steps into Casboult’s position 2021-2.

Schumacher I think has shown enough to persevere with. Was not out of place in his 1 senior match.

BSOS and Finbar. Speculative picks.


TRADES

Henderson, Yarran, Bell and Menzel out for draft picks and the GWS 4.

Pick swap with Hawks.

Tuohy and draft pick out for Smedts and deal that got us Marchbank and Pickett.

Pick 135 for Palmer.

Gibbs and picks for other picks, pick swap with Bulldogs too (picks used in whole or part for Kennedy, O’Brien, TDK).

Lang.

McGovern, Setterfield, Newman.

Downgrade 2020 first for Adelaide’s 2020 first and 2019 late first (Stocker). I think it evens out and fills a list need for us being Stocker who among other things lowers his eyes delivering into F50. Adelaide’s 2020 first could perhaps land us a Jack Martin and change ...


FREE AGENCY

Wright, Gorringe. Wright a win I think.

Fasolo.

(Noise that we might be an attractive club for top end free agents this off-season)


ROOKIES

Area I think we can improve going forward.

JGM and Lebois the long term ones.

Other end of the spectrum Shaw, Mullett and O’Shea.

Gallucci and Korcheck in between.

Gibbons a success story, DeLuca a promising start.
Cottrell and Owies showing something.


Thoughts

We are well position as we increase talent. If Thomas is being squeezed out perhaps we are almost at the point where clubs will give us draft picks for most who leave, and most who leave seek greater opportunity.

Byrne is probably the one player we did not want to lose (not to another club though). Otherwise the players traded out all make sense, and the vast majority of players delisted have ended their AFL journey (exceptions Holman, Buckley and Gowers).

Couple of holes ... in ruck (sturdy ruck to assume no.1 after Kreuzer) ... and a class small forward to complement Cuningham and release Gibbons to midfield rotations. An extra class midfielder to reduce reliance on younger bodied mids makes a lot of sense (fingers and toes crossed for a Rabbit).

Have we got the replacements already for Kreuzer (no), Casboult (TDK), Simpson (no / Schumacher if he comes on), Thomas (watch SOS I think), Murphy (no / free agent), Lobbe (no) and Ed (no)?

So depth of class results in a better VFL team and competition for spots in the Senior 22. Perhaps 8 or so list changes this year going down to 5-6 in coming years, and 2-3 of these will be to trade in players or to up our draft position.

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[Blueballs38]

Bump .....

With recent news from Barass I think we should come and pay our respects once more.

CFC is in good hands when House Silvagni builds it back up from ruin.

Strong foundation he’s built people.

A foundation for a dynasty which we have not seen for so long there is a generation of Blues fans who have not tasted success!

This was just not possible when I was growing up!

From the bottom of my heart thank you SOS

My favourite player of all time along with Reece Jones, The Dominator and Diesel

 

[Jeremias]

Looking forward to watching SOS work his magic over the next couple of weeks.

We are in very good hands.

 

[Michael Jezz]

He needs to add more midfielders this draft to cement his legacy

 

[AT97]

What does the future hold for Silvagni and Carlton?

"I don’t think it was all harmonious over the trade period."

www.sen.com.au

 

[Blue__Balls]

What does the future hold for Silvagni and Carlton?

"I don’t think it was all harmonious over the trade period."

www.sen.com.au

Doesn't really say much, does it...

People saw a "stern" conversation? When does SOS look anything other than stern? And without hearing the conversation, nobody could know where any sternness was directed. Could have been discussing mutual hatred of Cochrane, or clubs reneging on deals, or cold pasta.

He's not necessarily locked in there? Nobody is, the industry has made that clear.

It wasn't harmonious over the trade period? Missing some targets would have that effect...

He and the CEO don't necessarily agree on all the list building philosophies? Well, one of them is in charge of building a competitive list and the other with making the club a commercial success.

 

[4thchicken]

IMO, sos has done a good job as list manager. Yes some pain but the structure/profile of list shapes to make and keep us competitive/contending for many years to come

 

[Doro]

He's done a fine job of the rebuild, the awful state our list was in on his arrival to where it is now. I've never got the rock star status that some afford him though, he's just a CFC football department employee at the end of the day. Let's see how the wash up is post draft, hopefully the disappointment of trade deadline is a distant memory.

 

[F_therest]

He's done a fine job of the rebuild, the awful state our list was in on his arrival to where it is now. I've never got the rock star status that some afford him though, he's just a CFC football department employee at the end of the day. Let's see how the wash up is post draft, hopefully the disappointment of trade deadline is a distant memory.

He's done an amazing job with our list since joining us in 2015...we've gone from probably the oldest, worst list in the comp, to one where the entire industry sees as being very attractive and a lot of top-line potential youngsters.

This year had guys like Papley, Martin & Wines interested in joining us...that probably doesn't even happen without SOS' work over the last few years.
Martin should have happened, it was only GC's idiocy and AFL's handouts that stopped that trade. Papley as well thanks to Essendon.

I think his trading over his time with us shows he's one of the best in the business. Tough but fair, while also being very creative.

 

[Arr0w]

Like all list managers, they all have misses

Any that have a better than 60-70% strike rate over their tenure are rare/elite

While I think he has nailed most of the picks/trades in the first 2 rounds, more work is needed with late picks in the draft/trades

Nothing we don't know

 

[The Ian PrenderCast]

The rumored meddling in list decisions from within the football department would be frustrating, because the media and fans don't come after Football Department Figure A if someone they've heavily advocated for doesn't work out. They go for SOS.

When you appoint someone as GM List Management and Strategy you've got to back that vision in completely until it's untenable to do so. They're handed the keys and they're wholly and solely in charge. There are growing whispers to suggest that isn't the case and the guy carrying the can is being forced to compromise in the face of competing ideas and interests.

Too many cooks and all that...

And here we sit, a couple of years down the line from the most comprehensive list re-build in the history of the VFL/AFL - taking out expansion teams its the most seismic undertaking of all time - and people are getting itchy trigger fingers regarding the architect of that build.

I'm by no means a SOS acolyte, but in recognizing the sheer size of the task he has taken on, in recognizing the fallacy that only Carlton have draft skeletons, in recognizing not every pick, free agent or acquisition is going to work... I can comfortably say he's done a terrific job thus far.

If it's the end of the line because Football Department Figure A wanted to recruit his old mate, or because the Swans couldn't get their act together, or because the Suns were emboldened by AFL interference... I understand SOS's frustrations and believe it a real shame.

 

[JuddgementDay]

He's done an amazing job with our list since joining us in 2015...we've gone from probably the oldest, worst list in the comp, to one where the entire industry sees as being very attractive and a lot of top-line potential youngsters.

This year had guys like Papley, Martin & Wines interested in joining us...that probably doesn't even happen without SOS' work over the last few years.
Martin should have happened, it was only GC's idiocy and AFL's handouts that stopped that trade. Papley as well thanks to Essendon.

I think his trading over his time with us shows he's one of the best in the business. Tough but fair, while also being very creative.

This!
When we get Martin for free and some DFAs, all the sudden this year's trading doesn't seem so bad
The evaluation of SOS will be different then

 

[T2B_]

Like all list managers, they all have misses

Any that have a better than 60-70% strike rate over their tenure are rare/elite

While I think he has nailed most of the picks/trades in the first 2 rounds, more work is needed with late picks in the draft/trades

Nothing we don't know

Good post. Dare I say, straight as an...

 

[HARKER]

This!
When we get Martin for free and some DFAs, all the sudden this year's trading doesn't seem so bad
The evaluation of SOS will be different then

I don't know about DFA's for us.
I don't think we're ready for an influx of 'un-wanteds'
It didn't work last time with a relatively new coach and I don't see it working with another new coach.

As for knowing that we have been poor with latter picks and rookie selections - I don't think the majority saw this to be a fact when it clearly was.
That may well have changed now, but it's been a real issue for years now.

 

[Thrawn]

This!
When we get Martin for free and some DFAs, all the sudden this year's trading doesn't seem so bad
The evaluation of SOS will be different then

Melbourne might pick him up though.

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm a simple bloke just do the arithmetic...

Where the real capital was spent and where we should expect Strong AFL quality players:
Weitering/Plowman/Charlie/Harry/Marchbank
Cuningham/SPS/Fisher/Kennedy
Dow/LoB
Walsh/Setterfield/Stocker

Loose change wins ( bonus)
SOJ/TDK/Williamson/Gibbons/Newman

Too soon to know
Lang
McCreadie
BSOS

Disappointments
Pickett(inj)
Sumner(off field issues)
Smedts
LeBois
Garlett
Kerr

Delisting errors ( who knows?)
Lamb
Thomas

Severe disappointments V required salary dumps V cost nothing except time
Palmer
Gorringe
Mullett
O'Shea
Fasolo

the finger pointing on actual selection nuff nuffery is way way overdone bordering on hysteria.

Hail Mary Trade Misses - high profile lottery
Kelly
Shiel
Coniglio

Trade Strategy wtfs V will be here in a year's time...

Papley
Martin
Wines(?)

Good chance Martin gets in via PSD
Papley and Wines next year.

I'd rate this record as pretty good bordering on excellent with the only finger pointing wtf question over the management of this year's trade period regarding Papley.

I reckon any criticism of SOS in the context of what the task was when we started this full rebuild and reset is a extremely harsh and not supported by evidence.

 

[Moody Blue]

I'm a simple bloke just do the arithmetic...

Where the real capital was spent and where we should expect Strong AFL quality players:
Weitering/Plowman/Charlie/Harry
Cuningham/SPS/Fisher/Kennedy
Dow/LoB
Walsh/Setterfield

Loose change wins ( bonus)
SOJ/TDK/Williamson/Gibbons

Too soon to know
Lang
McCreadie
BSOS

Disappointments
Pickett(inj)
Sumner(off field issues)
Smedts
LeBois
Garlett
Kerr

Delisting errors ( who knows?)
Lamb
Thomas

Severe disappointments V required salary dumps V cost nothing except time
Palmer
Gorringe
Mullett
O'Shea
Fasolo

the finger pointing on actual selection nuff nuffery is way way overdone bordering on hysteria.

Hail Mary Trade Misses - high profile lottery
Kelly
Shiel
Coniglio

Trade Strategy wtfs V will be here in a year's time...

Papley
Martin
Wines(?)

Good chance Martin gets in via PSD
Papley and Wines next year.

I'd rate this record as pretty good bordering on excellent with the only finger pointing wtf question over the management of this year's trade period regarding Papley.

I reckon any criticism of SOS in the context of what the task was when we started this full rebuild and reset is a extremely harsh and not supported by evidence.

Barring injury, I can't see Kennedy getting a game next season. I would replace him with Stocker as he is going to be a very good player.
The biggest criticism that will hang over SOS will be his obsession with recruiting GWS players. I appreciate many will argue it was a snakes and ladder situation, but GWS did better out of the deals than we did. You have to wonder whether this is one of the reasons some big name recruits and their management have baulked at coming to Carlton. We have more depth and quality and all things being equal like injury etc, I would be disappointed if we did not play finals next year. There are going to be a lot of clubs transitioning, and this will be our best chance to stand up and make Carlton a destination club. After the season Richmond had in 2019 with all of their injuries etc and still won the flag, you have to take off your hat to them. Can't see anybody beating them for the flag in 2020.

 

[gab213]

I can't believe that in such a short period of time people have gone from wanting to erect statues of SOS to talking down what he has done over the past 5 years. It just goes to show how fickle and reactive supporters can be, thankfully we have no real say in the goings on at the club.

 

[Funk]

Like all list managers, they all have misses

Any that have a better than 60-70% strike rate over their tenure are rare/elite

While I think he has nailed most of the picks/trades in the first 2 rounds, more work is needed with late picks in the draft/trades

Nothing we don't know

I think SOS has done an incredible job in transforming the list from old, entitled, overpaid to young & talented and on the up. All the while dealing with TPP, trade restrictions, Free Agency and a poor performing team.

The obvious weak spot is late picks/rookies - which ironically about the only thing the previous regime were good at......

 

[Jeremias]

The biggest criticism that will hang over SOS will be his obsession with recruiting GWS players. I appreciate many will argue it was a snakes and ladder situation, but GWS did better out of the deals than we did.

This criticism is largely directed at Silvagni by lazy journalists and by lazy opposition fans who don't have any real grasp on what we have done, and why we have done it.

Some players have worked out and others won't, but the reality is this is no different to any other list manager or recruiter in the history of the game, or indeed of professional sports.

Having come from the Giants, Silvagnin brought with him a very clear understanding of the players, their list build, and their salary cap. He would have been negligent in his duties had he not tried to use that to his advantage at Carlton.

Which deals did the Giants do better than us on?

You have to wonder whether this is one of the reasons some big name recruits and their management have baulked at coming to Carlton.

I think we can safely say Silvagni's relationship with the Giants has had absolutely nothing to do with the decision of some players to re-sign with their current club, or look elsewhere.

For the sake of a good laugh on this lovely Wednesday afternoon, can you tell us which recruits and managers you think it might have genuinely had an impact on?

 

[JustaBattler]

Barring injury, I can't see Kennedy getting a game next season. I would replace him with Stocker as he is going to be a very good player.
The biggest criticism that will hang over SOS will be his obsession with recruiting GWS players. I appreciate many will argue it was a snakes and ladder situation, but GWS did better out of the deals than we did. You have to wonder whether this is one of the reasons some big name recruits and their management have baulked at coming to Carlton. We have more depth and quality and all things being equal like injury etc, I would be disappointed if we did not play finals next year. There are going to be a lot of clubs transitioning, and this will be our best chance to stand up and make Carlton a destination club. After the season Richmond had in 2019 with all of their injuries etc and still won the flag, you have to take off your hat to them. Can't see anybody beating them for the flag in 2020.

I forgot to add Marchbank and Stocker to the 'where we spent the real capital' list...and I will correct the error now - thanks for pointing out Stocker...have the same feeling re Stocker - really liked what I saw of him when he got a game...

Re Kennedy he is probably in same position as Marchbank/Cuningham in that his development and expected output has been constrained by LT injury and recovery...it was pleasing to see him perform well as a forward - straight dependable kick and very clever with setting up team mates via handball...but if he can't also provide support as a genuine onballer- then he will be up against faster players like Cuningham or taller like SOJ as the last forward in what should become a pretty potent forward line in 2020 - Betts?PapleyMartin - would all be starting players

I imagine that the forward line looks something like this in round 1:

Martin Charlie Cuningham
Betts Harry McGovern

As for finals I think Defensive capability is finals quality and Forward line will be there or there abouts ( assuming no big injuries) but maybe lack of developed depth between the arcs ends up biting us on backside if we cop injuries to Cripps especially and or Murph, Ed and Kreuzer.

Dow/Fisher/Stocker/Setterfield/Gibbons/LoB/SPS - we need 2-3 to take a serious step up in week to week output ..to match Walsh would be good. I dont see Setterfield as a long term wingman buyt he lacks body development and tank to be Cripp's second at thsi stage - Kennedy shoudl have been pushing for that spot ...

Plenty to be excited about - especially if we nab Martin and Betts shows he isn't 'cooked' - I reckon we get as many years out of Eddie as we do Murph from here.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I think SOS has done an incredible job in transforming the list from old, entitled, overpaid to young & talented and on the up. All the while dealing with TPP, trade restrictions, Free Agency and a poor performing team.

The obvious weak spot is late picks/rookies - which ironically about the only thing the previous regime were good at......

so hasn't been that great

we're bottom five and he's been around for a while
we have many holes in the list still

pretty piss poor in my opinion

no small forwards
no ruck
no half back flanker that can plug holes going forward
not enough inside outside spread
no speedie wingman

and we didn't improve the list through the trade which is really the only way to improve from year to year

 

[dumb]

There wouldn't be many list managers in afl not subject to higher up influence. I imagine the coach would have the ability to overrule in most clubs, it depends whether they deem it necessary. Someone like Hardwick appears to give lots of latitude. I don't see the point in lamenting this as both under Bolton and Teague his hand has been guided (deluca, Betts).

Comments of old carlton coming to the fore with the possible end of his employment, but a desire to remodel the club or find new roles to keep SOS around is weird and looks a lot like the old carlton behaviour as well.

I like to enjoy leaving the stress of all these off season decisions to who gets paid to do it, and wait patiently for round 1.

 

[JuddgementDay]

I think we just have to compare to recent rebuilt teams...
Be objective - which list would you rather Melbourne, St Kilda or CFC?
CFC easily, the spine is great to work with, all other positions are much easier to add/ refine
When we look at our team going forward
Without looking too hard, we have 4 new recruits: Doc, Charlie, Stocker and Williamson - these are great additions already to the natural growth with a young team
It's pretty exciting!