Test Surely the Cummins/McDonald captain/coach setup is the worst in Australian Test history

[PhatBoy]

With an 8-6-1 record. They were horrific in Australia. You tell me with a straight face that south African team beats any of their previous teams from now to the 90s.

They have always had world class bowlers or batters. They have neither right now.

They have no world class bowlers right now?

That’s…. Thats interesting.

 

[PhatBoy]

Just in case it comes up again can someone point out that in the current South African side, the one that toured last summer, the WORST member of their pace quartet, boasts 76 tests wickets at 26 in his career so far? The two youngest ones both have 50 or so wickets at 22 and there’s another guy who’s name escapes me but he’s set all sorts of records for having one of the lowest strike rates in 146 years of test cricket and has almost 300 test wickets at 22.
And they have a world class spinner.

 

[Topkent]

Just in case it comes up again can someone point out that in the current South African side, the one that toured last summer, the WORST member of their pace quartet, boasts 76 tests wickets at 26 in his career so far? The two youngest ones both have 50 or so wickets at 22 and there’s another guy who’s name escapes me but he’s set all sorts of records for having one of the lowest strike rates in 146 years of test cricket and has almost 300 test wickets at 22.
And they have a world class spinner.

Jansen averaged 50
Ngidi 66
Maharaj averages 260

Super world class. Facing a declining Warner Smith and useless with the stick Carey

If that's a world class attack then no wonder we can win everything.

Forget all that stuff though, you truly think this south African team would beat any saffer side from the last 30 years?

 

[Topkent]

“Should have lost the ashes” is up there with “moral victors” or lost “due the conditions”. Throw in a brave loss, injuries made a difference and a rub of the green to complete the utter bullshit response.

Or you could cry more about the fact that we were gonna lose the 5th test and the series after we were 2-0 up. Weather saved us, that's it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Jansen averaged 50
Ngidi 66
Maharaj averages 260

Super world class. Facing a declining Warner Smith and useless with the stick Carey

If that's a world class attack then no wonder we can win everything.

Forget all that stuff though, you truly think this south African team would beat any saffer side from the last 30 years?

Bahaha
Yes it’s funny how ‘doing really well against a certain opposition’ will make their record, in that particular series, look poor.

That’s exactly the point

You claimed they aren’t world class; if they aren’t world class the numbers you just mentioned would be their numbers for their career, not the series.

 

[revo333]

This thread is rather silly.

A bit surprised it wasn't started by lukeparker

 

[The Passenger]

He cannot comprehend that Langer pissed off a lot of players or that its no longer his era, the man is out of touch.

There are only a handful of coach's in any sport at a given time who can go down the "it's my way or highway" line. Langer hadn't got close to earning that right.

It's an even harder route to take when your coaching a national team. You can't exactly sell off your best players for a shit ton of money (or draft picks if we wanna compare it to the AFL universe) and bring in the players you want to confirm to your own mindset.

Coaching a national team means you're pretty much stuck with the cattle you've got and it's up to the coach to work out the best way to maximise the perfomances of that group.

 

[The Passenger]

Jansen averaged 50
Ngidi 66
Maharaj averages 260

Good bowlers have bad series.

Even great bowlers do. NZ's batsmen countered Glenn Mcgrath circa 2001 by leaving everything and he averaged 65 in that series.

South Africa have an exceptional bowling attack, especially their quicks. That's been proven in most series they've played over the last five years.

Their batting, however, I will agree is sub par.

 

[PhatBoy]

Good bowlers have bad series.

Even great bowlers do. NZ's batsmen countered Glenn Mcgrath circa 2001 by leaving everything and he averaged 65 in that series.

South Africa have an exceptional bowling attack, especially their quicks. That's been proven in most series they've played over the last five years.

Their batting, however, I will agree is sub par.

The greatest aspect of his logic was his ‘you’re only as good as your last series’ logic applying to the SA bowlers….. but not the Australian coach and captain

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

There are only a handful of coach's in any sport at a given time who can go down the "it's my way or highway" line. Langer hadn't got close to earning that right.

It's an even harder route to take when your coaching a national team. You can't exactly sell off your best players for a s**t ton of money (or draft picks if we wanna compare it to the AFL universe) and bring in the players you want to confirm to your own mindset.

Coaching a national team means you're pretty much stuck with the cattle you've got and it's up to the coach to work out the best way to maximise the perfomances of that group.

And even those "it's my way or highway" coaches still had very bloody good man management skills.

And in cricket tours you are with the same coach for months.

 

[Topkent]

Bahaha
Yes it’s funny how ‘doing really well against a certain opposition’ will make their record, in that particular series, look poor.

That’s exactly the point

You claimed they aren’t world class; if they aren’t world class the numbers you just mentioned would be their numbers for their career, not the series.

So like I said, you think this south African side beats any south African side over the past 30 years?

 

[Topkent]

The greatest aspect of his logic was his ‘you’re only as good as your last series’ logic applying to the SA bowlers….. but not the Australian coach and captain

Even your snide little comments missing the mark our last test series was a rain day away from failure

 

[PhatBoy]

Even your snide little comments missing the mark our last test series was a rain day away from failure

On the contrary, I actually agree: the applause regarding the ashes has been overdone and as much as everyone has enjoyed giving it to England about the Bairstow stumping, the incredibly unfunny moral victory jokes and the Bazball criticism that’s failed to actually understand that the tactic has, for all intents and purposes, worked, Australia had a lot of things fall their way and were fairly lucky not to lose 3-2.

I was commenting more specifically regarding the appraisal of the SA series.
How can you come away from that particular series and make an assessment of SA and go ‘well those bowlers have to be shit because of what just happened’ but not say ‘well the Aussies have to be decent because of what just happened’

 

[Topkent]

On the contrary, I actually agree: the applause regarding the ashes has been overdone and as much as everyone has enjoyed giving it to England about the Bairstow stumping, the incredibly unfunny moral victory jokes and the Bazball criticism that’s failed to actually understand that the tactic has, for all intents and purposes, worked, Australia had a lot of things fall their way and were fairly lucky not to lose 3-2.

I was commenting more specifically regarding the appraisal of the SA series.
How can you come away from that particular series and make an assessment of SA and go ‘well those bowlers have to be s**t because of what just happened’ but not say ‘well the Aussies have to be decent because of what just happened’

Ok maybe I went too hard on the bowlers but my overall point stands, that bowling attack isn't enough to save it as a good south African team. We're ranked number #1 or atleast we won the WTC, I think we'd lose to most of the test sides of 90s/00s from any country. Like I asked at the beginning and you maybe ignoring because you agree, you think this south African side beats any south African side from the late 90s to 2017?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The Poms dialled in pitches won critical tosses, bowled and batted in better conditions and had a handy change of ball. They could not get it done at home. Most of their players will refuse to tour here because they might be on the receiving end of some gentle teasing. Bunter Bairstow will pull a heartstring to avoid the tour.

 

[Topkent]

The Poms dialled in pitches won critical tosses, bowled and batted in better conditions and had a handy change of ball. They could not get it done at home. Most of their players will refuse to tour here because they might be on the receiving end of some gentle teasing. Bunter Bairstow will pull a heartstring to avoid the tour.

Lol so 0 credit to them all credit to us. Could just as easily say because we played the WTC in the lead up we were match harderned and they weren't and they built into the series and deserved to win the the last 3 tests.

It's hilarious because all the Aussie fans saying the poms were sooking about the weather would have done the exact same thing if it cost us a test match

 

[frankrizzo]

if people are going to play that what could have been game with ashes then the ball change in 5th test was as big as anything in series, its still crazy to think the umps took a dead ball we were handling with ease and gave them basically a brand new one it changed the entire match and ultimately decided the series.

But we also had plenty of chances to put the series away before that happened just like england had plenty of chances to start playing decent cricket before the third test, if they had they wouldnt have been relying on weather in their own country to keep ashes alive a bit longer.

 

[samFFC]

You're only ignoring the rain to suit your cummins is the greatest narrative, if it was the other way round no doubt you'd be saying how unlucky he was.

Name the world class players south Africa have compared to their previous sides?

Smith, Pollock, Rhodes, Kallis, Ntini, Steyne, Morkel, Philander, De Kock, De Villiers, Amla etc.

They turned up with a side that wouldn't have beaten the worst Australian side from in the last 40 years.

I'm not ignoring anything. Cummins literally won the 1st test with the bat, and England went down 0-2 AT HOME, when needing to win the series to win back the Ashes.

As noted by above poster, the bowling attack is strong.
You are ignoring this to suit your narrative

 

[samFFC]

So like I said, you think this south African side beats any south African side over the past 30 years?

Who knows?

Who cares?

This team beat their team. If that was the only series they had won, then your point is fair.
My point is that it has been a pattern of winning for the past 12 months, and beyond this.
Cummins is a winner.
McDonald is a winner.

They are winning at home. Can only beat who they have in front of them.
They are winning on the road. On the road they've retained the Ashes, won the WTC and won the WORLD CUP.

 

[samFFC]

Lol so 0 credit to them all credit to us. Could just as easily say because we played the WTC in the lead up we were match harderned and they weren't and they built into the series and deserved to win the the last 3 tests.

It's hilarious because all the Aussie fans saying the poms were sooking about the weather would have done the exact same thing if it cost us a test match

No, the Poms were sooking about the weather, when literally the same thing had happened to their benefit in 2013.
Yet this time around, they wanted the Laws of Cricket changed - extra days, overtime, etc. etc.

Ashes 2013: England retain the urn after rain forces draw

Australia left frustrated after rain stops play with England on the rack at 37 for three on final day at Old Trafford

www.theguardian.com

 

[Topkent]

I'm not ignoring anything. Cummins literally won the 1st test with the bat, and England went down 0-2 AT HOME, when needing to win the series to win back the Ashes.

As noted by above poster, the bowling attack is strong.
You are ignoring this to suit your narrative

He was also mostly rubbish with the ball across the series if we're being truthful though and his captaincy was bad going on horrible most games.

Lol an let's be real, Khawaja won the first test, Cummins batted brilliantly in the second dig but he steered us home. That's like saying Maxwell won the world cup because he hit the winning runs.

 

[Topkent]

Who knows?

Who cares?

This team beat their team. If that was the only series they had won, then your point is fair.
My point is that it has been a pattern of winning for the past 12 months, and beyond this.
Cummins is a winner.
McDonald is a winner.

They are winning at home. Can only beat who they have in front of them.
They are winning on the road. On the road they've retained the Ashes, won the WTC and won the WORLD CUP.

It's a good way of avoiding saying it's the weakest Saffa team for 3 decades

 

[samFFC]

He was also mostly rubbish with the ball across the series if we're being truthful though and his captaincy was bad going on horrible most games.

Lol an let's be real, Khawaja won the first test, Cummins batted brilliantly in the second dig but he steered us home. That's like saying Maxwell won the world cup because he hit the winning runs.

Yeah you are right.

Maxwell hitting 1 shot in the Final is equivalent to scoring 38 (with a tail scoring essentially zero) and 44* to chase down 281 on day 5
(Also Cummins took 4 wickets in 2nd dig first test, so nah).

 

[samFFC]

It's a good way of avoiding saying it's the weakest Saffa team for 3 decades

Yes, and we flogged them. 2-0 and had them followed on in the 3rd test. What's your point?

They just beat one of the most dominant, perfect ODI teams IN HISTORY, on their own turf, in the final.

 

[Topkent]

Yes, and we flogged them. 2-0 and had them followed on in the 3rd test. What's your point?

They just beat one of the most dominant, perfect ODI teams IN HISTORY, on their own turf, in the final.

That beating south Africa at home is not much of an achievement lol thought was obvious