Test Surely the Cummins/McDonald captain/coach setup is the worst in Australian Test history

[frankrizzo]

To make it very simple for you the only thing that's going to him the best coach ever title is wins in England and India.

So right now you consider john buchanan our greatest ever coach?

Wins in india england 3 world cup wins and champions trophy plus two separate 16 game test win streaks and a 21 game odi streak, if we judge coaches purely by things like how much did they win and where did they win and dont take into account the quality of players they had then buchanan is so far ahead of the rest that its no contest.

 

[yabsy]

This Australian team is obviously a happy team - I guess winning will have that effect, but every member of the team knows his role, and does it very well. I'm looking forward to the NZ tour, which will be a proper test for the Aussies.

Will it be a test though? Australia last lost a test match in NZ 31 years ago.

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[PhatBoy]

Will it be a test though? Australia last lost a test match in NZ 31 years ago.

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It should be but I suspect it won’t.
NZ have inexplicably gone from winning the WTC and subsequently having England at their mercy away from home to blowing that series completely, halving their England series at home, losing a test at home to Bangladesh and not looking remotely like the side the were two years ago.

 

[yabsy]

It should be but I suspect it won’t.
NZ have inexplicably gone from winning the WTC and subsequently having England at their mercy away from home to blowing that series completely, halving their England series at home, losing a test at home to Bangladesh and not looking remotely like the side the were two years ago.

Agreed, they've really fallen away since that WTC win...Maybe it's time for Colin de Grandhomme to reverse his retirement

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[HirdsTheWord]

So right now you consider john buchanan our greatest ever coach?

Wins in india england 3 world cup wins and champions trophy plus two separate 16 game test win streaks and a 21 game odi streak, if we judge coaches purely by things like how much did they win and where did they win and dont take into account the quality of players they had then buchanan is so far ahead of the rest that its no contest.

What else would you suggest makes a coach the greatest? Apart from the statistics?

Don Bradman isn't considered the best test batsmen ever because he was a good bloke. It's because his test avg is 99.94 which is the highest over a considerable sample size.

Stats matter most IMO.

 

[frankrizzo]

What else would you suggest makes a coach the greatest? Apart from the statistics?

Don Bradman isn't considered the best test batsmen ever because he was a good bloke. It's because his test avg is 99.94 which is the highest over a considerable sample size.

Stats matter most IMO.

Bob simpson, context matters with coaches not just results i do think buchanan is under rated by many mostly due to comments from ones like warne but i think simpson changed our side more than any other coach has.

 

[PhatBoy]

What else would you suggest makes a coach the greatest? Apart from the statistics?

Don Bradman isn't considered the best test batsmen ever because he was a good bloke. It's because his test avg is 99.94 which is the highest over a considerable sample size.

Stats matter most IMO.

Multiple things can make a coach the greatest.

Stats will always matter but who’s had a harder job, the guy with a top 7 of batsmen averaging 40-50 and an attack of bowlers averaging in the 20s, or the guy who’s got 3 world class batsmen, 3 others who are decent, a mediocre keeper batsman, a couple of gun bowlers and two okay ones, for example?

I would say a coach taking the recent NZ team to a world test championship for example has done more than a coach taking India, had they won the last edition, even though they would both have the same amount of physical achievement.

 

[DaRick]

Bob simpson, context matters with coaches not just results i do think buchanan is under rated by many mostly due to comments from ones like warne but i think simpson changed our side more than any other coach has.

The difficulty I have with someone like Buchanan is that he's a theorist, not a technician or mentor.

That makes him perfect for a strong side that can generally take care of itself (QLD 1994/95 + AUS 1999-2007), because his wacky, left-field theories at worst don't hurt, and at best give the side an edge.

But if your side is in transition or needs help with basic skills (e.g. this PAK team), he's not your guy. Simpson is.

 

[PhatBoy]

The difficulty I have with someone like Buchanan is that he's a theorist, not a technician or mentor.

That makes him perfect for a strong side that can generally take care of itself (QLD 1994/95 + AUS 1999-2007), because his wacky, left-field theories at worst don't hurt, and at best give the side an edge.

But if your side is in transition or needs help with basic skills (e.g. this PAK team), he's not your guy. Simpson is.

On the contrary, I think he could really help a team like Pakistan BUT, he would need support staff around him to help them work on things like their fielding.

I said during the Perth test that one of the most striking things that was noticeable about Pakistan’s bowling was that they bowled I would suggest at least as many balls as Australia did which tested the batsmen or drew mis-hits or false shots. It’s what happened in between that was of a huge difference and quite clearly there had been nowhere near enough homework and preparation done into where they needed to be operating on a regular basis.

Batting I think is something that you probably can’t teach as much from a calculator or an analytical perspective but I think a coach like Buchanan could definitely play a role in helping teams like Pakistan provided that the other staff can fill the gaps that he has no interest in

 

[DaRick]

Well, the worst setup in Australian Test history has done something that Langer/Paine couldn't.

Not lose a series at home to India.

 

[t_94]

Multiple things can make a coach the greatest.

Stats will always matter but who’s had a harder job, the guy with a top 7 of batsmen averaging 40-50 and an attack of bowlers averaging in the 20s, or the guy who’s got 3 world class batsmen, 3 others who are decent, a mediocre keeper batsman, a couple of gun bowlers and two okay ones, for example?

I would say a coach taking the recent NZ team to a world test championship for example has done more than a coach taking India, had they won the last edition, even though they would both have the same amount of physical achievement.

Always John Wright very highly as a coach for the way he helped harness the talent in the Indian team.

 

[Gethelred]

There's different types of leadership than mere tactical nous. While having the canniest captain in the world might be nice, it didn't seem to work out for Michael Clarke all that well.

We needed to be up yesterday, and we played our best day a) with the ball, and b) as a team for the series. Yesterday wasn't individal effort, they all put in, believed it could be done, and beat them together. Everyone contributed, and celebrated each other's achievement.

One would think a footballing site would notice these things.

 

[Borisdog]

There's different types of leadership than mere tactical nous. While having the canniest captain in the world might be nice, it didn't seem to work out for Michael Clarke all that well.

We needed to be up yesterday, and we played our best day a) with the ball, and b) as a team for the series. Yesterday wasn't individal effort, they all put in, believed it could be done, and beat them together. Everyone contributed, and celebrated each other's achievement.

One would think a footballing site would notice these things.

Credit where it's due, they got it right yesterday. Whether you wish to credit the Captain/Coach/Whoever for that is up to each of us in our own opinions.

My personal belief is it goes badly wrong too often for it to be fobbed off. And why wasn't this beautiful, praiseworthy, symmetry and cohesion evident from 7 down and 250 in front in India's first dig?

We're well lead when it's going our way. But we're pretty ordinary when the heat's on. And very lacking in ideas when the heat's on when we're bowling. That's when it's at its most noticeable. Again, it's up to our individual opinion who we think is responsible for that.

Great win yesterday, and we've now pulled off a couple of real get out of jail wins under Patrick. But that game should NEVER have been that close. And there's been plenty of others where we've just let the opposition right back in.

Jesus, we've done it three times in this SERIES.

I remain thoroughly unconvinced of Patrick's captaincy skills. Great bowler though.
As far as the coach goes, well, they're not on the field are they.

 

[to1994]

Great win yesterday, and we've now pulled off a couple of real get out of jail wins under Patrick. But that game should NEVER have been that close. And there's been plenty of others where we've just let the opposition right back in.

Jesus, we've done it three times in this SERIES.

I remain thoroughly unconvinced of Patrick's captaincy skills. Great bowler though.
As far as the coach goes, well, they're not on the field are they.

At what point do we just appreciate that the team managed to win against a side that has statistically perhaps the best fast bowler in history?

While there were some close calls, we ended up winning by over 200 runs. It wasn't really close in the end.

Our first dig was pretty much perfect. A handful of handy 50+ contributions with a big hundred from Smith which is exactly what you want from your first innings on a decent batting surface.

We stumbled in the second dig, but it also came about during possibly the best spell of the series from again, maybe the best fast bowler of all time. A slip up in the second dig is fine, it's why first innings runs are important which we'd already delivered.

For all the criticism of Pat, who are we actually going back to and pointing at as someone better he should be emulating?

Paine? Steve Smith? They received all the same criticism that Pat gets.

Michael Clarke? On paper, he seemed good tactically but when did his tactics actually help us win a game of cricket? All I remember was him being praised for getting creative in a losing cause while morale in the team was at an all time low because he was horrible to be in the dressing room with.

I guess we're going back 30 years or so to Mark Taylor as our last great captain who most are probably just praising on reputation?

Pat & McDonald have probably over achieved if anything. Singling out a handful of bad days in the field across multiple years of cricket feels like grasping at straws.

 

[The Tilt]

We're well lead when it's going our way. But we're pretty ordinary when the heat's on. And very lacking in ideas when the heat's on when we're bowling. That's when it's at its most noticeable. Again, it's up to our individual opinion who we think is responsible for that.

Don't know how you can say this. The heat was on until Tea yesterday; we then took 7 wickets in around hour and a half.

There's just no pleasing some people.

 

[beatnik]

This was an asinine thread from the outset and it’s been filled with bleating complaints from axe-grinding trolls…no genuine Australian cricket fan dislikes Cummins or disputes his greatness…every, single critic on this thread is here for non-cricket reasons and should be condemned as the duplicitous imposters they are

Cummins is the best Australian captain since Steve Waugh and may end up challenging the great Captain Tugga for the top spot by the end of his career

That is the way.

 

[Topkent]

This was an asinine thread from the outset and it’s been filled with bleating complaints from axe-grinding trolls…no genuine Australian cricket fan dislikes Cummins or disputes his greatness…every, single critic on this thread is here for non-cricket reasons and should be condemned as the duplicitous imposters they are

Cummins is the best Australian captain since Steve Waugh and may end up challenging the great Captain Tugga for the top spot by the end of his career

That is the way.

Like **** he is

 

[beatnik]

Like **** he is

And the first ‘asinine troll…here for non-cricket reasons’ has self-identified

 

[Topkent]

And the first ‘asinine troll…here for non-cricket reasons’ has self-identified

Couldn't even captain Australia to a win in the last series against the Windies. Blown multiple away series against England and celebrated draws.

 

[beatnik]

Couldn't even captain Australia to a win in the last series against the Windies. Blown multiple away series against England and celebrated draws.

We have a second imposter!

What are your non-cricket reasons for trolling Captain Magnificent?

 

[Topkent]

We have a second imposter!

What are your non-cricket reasons for trolling Captain Magnificent?

Are you a nutcase? Lol
Give you some cricket reasons, you decide it must be personal

Ok

 

[PhatBoy]

Couldn't even captain Australia to a win in the last series against the Windies. Blown multiple away series against England and celebrated draws.

Ironically that West Indies test was probably one of the few major examples of him being overly attacking as a captain. Kept the field up as long as he could while Da Silva and Hodge put on the defining partnership of the match during the West Indies first innings recovery after they were 6-80, declared 9-down a few runs behind in order to have a go at them before stumps etc.

 

[beatnik]

Are you a nutcase? Lol
Give you some cricket reasons, you decide it must be personal

Ok

We have a third troll outing himself

You said personal, I said non-cricket…for example, you could be a fan of Indian or English cricket trolling actual Australian cricket fans…you could be a salty, testosterone-lacking Boomer who has decided that the scientific method is an affront to your fading memories of muscle volume and virility and must be derided as woke…you could be someone who believes that because NSW players are ‘given their Baggy Green when they receive their NSW cap’ that Cummins is not worthy of acknowledgement for greatness…you could be someone struggling to process the feelings of warmth and the waves of turgid, surging joy you experience whenever you see old Captain Blue Eyes and his Colgate smile…you could just be a contrarian who derives pleasure and validation from disagreeing with the most obvious of statements like the ones acknowledging Cummins’ greatness

I could go on and on but I won’t because I’ve already worked out which one is your non-cricket reason for being here

 

[Topkent]

We have a third troll outing himself

You said personal, I said non-cricket…for example, you could be a fan of Indian or English cricket trolling actual Australian cricket fans…you could be a salty, testosterone-lacking Boomer who has decided that the scientific method is an affront to your fading memories of muscle volume and virility and must be derided as woke…you could be someone who believes that because NSW players are ‘given their Baggy Green when they receive their NSW cap’ that Cummins is not worthy of acknowledgement for greatness…you could be someone struggling to process the feelings of warmth and the waves of turgid, surging joy you experience whenever you see old Captain Blue Eyes and his Colgate smile…you could just be a contrarian who derives pleasure and validation from disagreeing with the most obvious of statements like the ones acknowledging Cummins’ greatness

I could go on and on but I won’t because I’ve already worked out which one is your non-cricket reason for being here

Lol
This is one of the most insane ramblings I've read on here. Congrats

 

[beatnik]

Lol
This is one of the most insane ramblings I've read on here. Congrats

It’s ok, I won’t tell everyone which one it was