Game Day Swans v Tiggies

[The King!]

what exactly do people expect here ? We are playing a taller more dominant team which controlled the ruck and the stoppages all day. that team had numerous premiership players. We played the match in heavy rain and we have no one who could actually provide much of a contest for the long kick out of defence. We cant run it through them in the wet. we cant move the ball precisely in teh dry and have no chance cant in the wet.

the side is being attacking as much as it can be.

i genuinely think there are people here who would moan no matter what - if we played attacking and got thumped by 10 goals they'd moan. If we play defensively they moan. we actually tried to do both and they still moan.

as far as the list goes - well there's more questions there but you can see what the team will look like post buddy and I'm not unhappy with it. everyone wants us to be super competitive instantly - how about you look at hawthorn and adelaide and those strong teams of 2012-2016 like north melbourne and fremantle - they've all had drop offs along the way.

we arent where we would like to be we would like to be but where we will be is not too far off and we can get there with some astute drafting and trading and a bit of luck injury wise.

i expect a decent effort, we didn't get that from many imo

 

[Kennedy Parker]

Easy to laugh I'm sure. It's interesting that every response to a Parker criticism is never a counter-argument. Just someone telling me I'm wrong. Well, if I'm wrong, feel free to tell me how and we can discuss.

Someone who's a top 10 clearance and contest possession player in three separate years and has averaged 25 disposals basically since 2014 + gotten an AA as a midfielder isn't a midfield scrub.

Not to say Parker doesn't have his flaws, but I think you're way off the mark on this one.

 

[caesar88]

Someone who's a top 10 clearance and contest possession player in three separate years and has averaged 25 disposals basically since 2014 + gotten an AA as a midfielder isn't a midfield scrub.

Not to say Parker doesn't have his flaws, but I think you're way off the mark on this one.

Stats

 

[Kennedy Parker]

Stats

Are you requesting them or are you dismissing the validity of stats as evidence of a position?

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Dear Santa

with our no.2 draft pick, I would like a key forward.

not a half back flanker

Love D.Q

 

[caesar88]

Are you requesting them or are you dismissing the validity of stats as evidence of a position?

Dismissing. Sorry I shouldn't have been a smart-arse.

I just think stats don't tell the full story, and in the case of Parker, they completely distort the story.

Obviously Parker gets a lot of it, so the averaging 25 disposals every year is a gimme. It's what he does with them.

Obviously Parker is a hard nut, so the top 10 for contested possessions is a gimme. It's what he does with them.

Obviously Parker being in the midfield means he'll get a lot of clearances, so top 10 for clearances is a gimme. It's what he does with them. (Rhymes with Smack Dick.)

I truly believe he rarely does anything to our advantage when in a stoppage situation. Just my opinion from what I've seen since 2017.

 

[Kennedy Parker]

Dismissing. Sorry I shouldn't have been a smart-arse.

I just think stats don't tell the full story, and in the case of Parker, they completely distort the story.

Obviously Parker gets a lot of it, so the averaging 25 disposals every year is a gimme. It's what he does with them.

Obviously Parker is a hard nut, so the top 10 for contested possessions is a gimme. It's what he does with them.

Obviously Parker being in the midfield means he'll get a lot of clearances, so top 10 for clearances is a gimme. It's what he does with them. (Rhymes with Smack Dick.)

I truly believe he rarely does anything to our advantage when in a stoppage situation. Just my opinion from what I've seen since 2017.

Stats don't tell the full story but they are quantifiable and can indicate some things. Your argument looks like its entirely a product of subjective perception so its hard to make a counterargument.

Firstly, you've said its a gimme that he can get a lot of it, he's a hard nut and can win the hardball, and also get clearances. Doesn't that form a large basis of the fundamentals of the midfield role? There's a huge majority of players you can throw into the midfield who are not capable of doing what Parker does.

Yes, he can go to ground, so do other mids -even the great JPK, he can hack kicks but even Heeney who's supposedly a very skilful kick can turn it over when he played in the mids, pressure and congestion would have a fair bit to do with it.

Yeah I'll another stat but the number of scoring chains that Parker has been involved in over the years has not been dissimilar to those of Kennedy's, Heeney's or Hanners pre-injury, so even when we were contending Parker was generating similar amount of scores across the year as our other mids. Are the issues you believe exist specific to Luke Parker or is it more likely that the effectiveness of our entire midfield and by extension team has declined and you perhaps notice Parker more due to a degree of confirmation bias?

 

[Diamond Jim]

Positives -
Heeney - His marking and kicking was excellent as was his effort - vote winning effort.
Papley - only legit fwd
Mills - Beat his man most of the day - and set up many plays.
Cunningham - provided great rebound and for a change his kicks hit targets
Heywood - Did a couple of dumb things....but attacked the ball and the oppo hard.
#3 - Forget his name..showed endeavour and some class


Negatives
Blakey has an ‘attitude’ problem
Parker - Poor old luke is too bashed up to spend so much time on the ball these days
Kennedy - time waits for no man
Florent - still shit decision making
Hewitt - Who?
Rowbottom - Went missing during the game.....might need a rest.

 

[kickthething]

I know, we are bad now. But those teams were another level of terrible altogether.

I’m not so sure about that

 

[caesar88]

Stats don't tell the full story but they are quantifiable and can indicate some things. Your argument looks like its entirely a product of subjective perception so its hard to make a counterargument.

Firstly, you've said its a gimme that he can get a lot of it, he's a hard nut and can win the hardball, and also get clearances. Doesn't that form a large basis of the fundamentals of the midfield role? There's a huge majority of players you can throw into the midfield who are not capable of doing what Parker does.

Yes, he can go to ground, so do other mids -even the great JPK, he can hack kicks but even Heeney who's supposedly a very skilful kick can turn it over when he played in the mids, pressure and congestion would have a fair bit to do with it.

Yeah I'll another stat but the number of scoring chains that Parker has been involved in over the years has not been dissimilar to those of Kennedy's, Heeney's or Hanners pre-injury, so even when we were contending Parker was generating similar amount of scores across the year as our other mids. Are the issues you believe exist specific to Luke Parker or is it more likely that the effectiveness of our entire midfield and by extension team has declined and you perhaps notice Parker more due to a degree of confirmation bias?

My argument is based on subjective perception, because I've seen enough Ryan Clarkes of the competition to know that you can have a statistically amazing game and do absolutely nothing to help your team with the ball.

You make concessions of Parker's game but then argue others do the same just as much. Except I don't believe they do. A stand-out feature of Kennedy's game is his strength through the hips. You could find isolated moments where he has gone to ground easily, but he is generally incredibly strong in the tackle. A stand-out feature of Heeney's game is his composure in traffic. You could find isolated moments where he's panicked and done a hack kick, but he is generally very poised in congestion and will take that extra second or two to identify a target before he kicks.

With Parker, these aren't isolated moments though. They have become the signature features of his game. I am so used to seeing Parker collapse to the ground as soon as he's tackled, or blindly bombing away without even looking off one step, or fumbling what should be a basic pick-up of a ground ball, that I have actually forgotten what competent Parker actually looks like.

So yes, I believe they are issues specific to Parker. Today I saw young kids like Stephens and Rowbottom hold their ground in contests identical to ones where Parker made a meal of it. I saw Florent and Hewett do things in traffic that I don't think I've seen Parker do for years. And I've seen it over and over, every single week, for a few years now. What these flaws in Parker's game result in are clearances that are directly to our opposition's advantage more so than ours, and contested possessions that only set other team-mates up for more pressure.

 

[Tedeski]

Oh I don’t mean dropping everyone and playing kids or tanking.

But chances are we are going to lose most games anyway, particularly given all of our talls are sitting on the sidelines and we just lost Kennedy for a little while.

No excuse Masey!

 

[Tedeski]

we we lost by 8 points. They were disciplined and hard working enough to follow a defensive gameplan

Not to mention their first charity goal for the Mills "deliberate" & Parker having the goal taken off him after doing what Dusty has been doing for the whole of his career with the don't argue.

 

[Prez]

My argument is based on subjective perception, because I've seen enough Ryan Clarkes of the competition to know that you can have a statistically amazing game and do absolutely nothing to help your team with the ball.

You make concessions of Parker's game but then argue others do the same just as much. Except I don't believe they do. A stand-out feature of Kennedy's game is his strength through the hips. You could find isolated moments where he has gone to ground easily, but he is generally incredibly strong in the tackle. A stand-out feature of Heeney's game is his composure in traffic. You could find isolated moments where he's panicked and done a hack kick, but he is generally very poised in congestion and will take that extra second or two to identify a target before he kicks.

With Parker, these aren't isolated moments though. They have become the signature features of his game. I am so used to seeing Parker collapse to the ground as soon as he's tackled, or blindly bombing away without even looking off one step, or fumbling what should be a basic pick-up of a ground ball, that I have actually forgotten what competent Parker actually looks like.

So yes, I believe they are issues specific to Parker. Today I saw young kids like Stephens and Rowbottom hold their ground in contests identical to ones where Parker made a meal of it. I saw Florent and Hewett do things in traffic that I don't think I've seen Parker do for years. And I've seen it over and over, every single week, for a few years now. What these flaws in Parker's game result in are clearances that are directly to our opposition's advantage more so than ours, and contested possessions that only set other team-mates up for more pressure.

Your summation of Parker as a player is summed up in your first paragraph,"based on subjective perception." Your perception which has continually been proven wrong over the past few years of banging on about him. ( he has finished in the Skilton medal in the top five.) So those that really know football and what role a player has to do for the team do rate him as do most players in the leaugue. Every player has an off day and Parker is no exception but one thing he does do is give 100% once he crosses the white line.

 

[caesar88]

Your summation of Parker as a player is summed up in your first paragraph,"based on subjective perception." Your perception which has continually been proven wrong over the past few years of banging on about him. ( he has finished in the Skilton medal in the top five.) So those that really know football and what role a player has to do for the team do rate him as do most players in the leaugue. Every player has an off day and Parker is no exception but one thing he does do is give 100% once he crosses the white line.

Okay

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Positives -
Heeney - His marking and kicking was excellent as was his effort - vote winning effort.
Papley - only legit fwd
Mills - Beat his man most of the day - and set up many plays.
Cunningham - provided great rebound and for a change his kicks hit targets
Heywood - Did a couple of dumb things....but attacked the ball and the oppo hard.
#3 - Forget his name..showed endeavour and some class


Negatives
Blakey has an ‘attitude’ problem
Parker - Poor old luke is too bashed up to spend so much time on the ball these days
Kennedy - time waits for no man
Florent - still sh*t decision making
Hewitt - Who?
Rowbottom - Went missing during the game.....might need a rest.

Jeez, putting the boot into Hewett and Rowbottom seems harsh.

And Parker still adds much needed toughness to our midfield.

Of more concern to me is that once again our fringe players (Fox, Gray) really offered nothing & if Ronke or Taylor comes back, they’ll similarly offer very little.

 

[Punts]

Grey isn’t much either

Taylor a 3 year deal

 

[Prez]

Today's game was one of the worst I have watched but i thought the backline played manfully and stuck to the plan and had a great game. They worked extremely hard to help each other and should be applauded for the efforts. We nearly sneaked a win with a serverley depleted side we just need a couple of talls to come back to give us a chance.

 

[sataris]

Gave Clarke the benefit of the doubt, but he really needs to go and work out how to pass to people that doesn't break our momentum completely.