Expansion Sydney and SE Queensland Residents - Would you jump ship?

[walhawk]

I reckon quite a few people would jump ship.

For example, (I am am passionate Hawthorn supporter but an occasional Storm fan) - if South Sydney has come to Melbounre 10 years ago as the 'Southern Rabittohs, I would probalby gome to the odd big game, finals, etc (like Swans fans do for the Homebush games).
But, if the NRL said they were gojng to introduce a new home team - the Eastern Melbourne Storm, I would make the switch.

I don't think passionate supporters will switch, but occasional fans will. And with a greater sense of pride and ownership, especially if the new team has a more local flavour.

It will work.

In 20 - 30 years I reckon Swans & WS will have about the same level of support.

But I can't see GC ever having a huge supporter base (only 17,000 fans watched GC Titans last night and they are in the top 4).
That is one of the reasons they should consider broadening the brand - e.g. Queeensland Sharks & NSW Wolves.

 

[theworldgame008]

Bollocks. The Lions are embraced as our team representing QLD in the AFL competition. At the first mention of Fitzroy you'll get a blank stare because people (rightly or wrongly) do not have any affiliation or need to identify with that heritage, particularly when the club is based here, trains here, and represents us when travelling 'away' to Melbourne.

This needs careful wording. Yes the Lions are here to represent Queensland in the AFL competition and yes most people will stare at you with a blank face if you mention fitzroy. But the same people who stare at you blankly couldnt tell Collingwood and Geelong apart, nor tell you who the Saints captain is. The truth is, the Lions represent the large Victorian community who have relocated to Queensland and while they represent Brisbane and QLD while in Melbourne, they too represent Fitzroy, which was evident after the premierships when they had fan days down there as well as up here.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I reckon quite a few people would jump ship.

For example, (I am am passionate Hawthorn supporter but an occasional Storm fan) - if South Sydney has come to Melbounre 10 years ago as the 'Southern Rabittohs, I would probalby gome to the odd big game, finals, etc (like Swans fans do for the Homebush games).
But, if the NRL said they were gojng to introduce a new home team - the Eastern Melbourne Storm, I would make the switch.

I don't think passionate supporters will switch, but occasional fans will. And with a greater sense of pride and ownership, especially if the new team has a more local flavour.

It will work.

In 20 - 30 years I reckon Swans & WS will have about the same level of support.

But I can't see GC ever having a huge supporter base (only 17,000 fans watched GC Titans last night and they are in the top 4).
That is one of the reasons they should consider broadening the brand - e.g. Queeensland Sharks & NSW Wolves.

There's a very good reason why the Titans crowds are below par, it's ridiculous how much they are charging people to go to watch the match live in the new stadium.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=196199

 

[Rob]

There's a very good reason why the Titans crowds are below par, it's ridiculous how much they are charging people to go to watch the match live in the new stadium.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=196199

Looks pretty standard prices to me.
According to ticketek, adult prices are $55, $42, $29 and $20.

Cheaper than going to the Gabba for a Lions game. I paid $42 for a shit seat behind the goals 2 rows from the back yesterday at Subiaco. A similar class for the Titans would have been $29.

Maybe you rugby league people are just used to ridiculously cheap prices. A bit like Victorian footy fans.

 

[littleduck]

There's a very good reason why the Titans crowds are below par, it's ridiculous how much they are charging people to go to watch the match live in the new stadium.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=196199

TICKET PRICES
I paid $29 for the opening game in the worst seats in the house (still pretty good mind you..). I paid $55 per ticket yesterday for the best seats in the house for the next home game.

CROWDS
It was pi$$ing down rain last night and so that (partly) explains the disappointment of another sub-20k crowds. I think it was smidgen under 18k. However, I'm tipping a record home game crowd for the next home game and the second sellout for the season.

 

[Rob]

As a further comparison, ticket prices to the Swans game at Homebush next weekend are (for an adult) $74, $56, $36 and $20.

Titans ticket prices look cheap in comparison.

 

[Glenn_]

Back to the original question no way in hell would I jump ship. I have seen the good times and bad times with Sydney for the best part of 20years, there is no way in hell I would give all that up just for something new.

 

[genghiskhan]

Simple answer, we here in SE QLD support any team other than the locally based team, because quite simply we disapprove of a Victorian team being relocated to our city and then rebranded to supposidly represent us.

I feel the same way about the Swans in Sydney. Even so, I still watch AFL. Most Sydney siders just watch the NRL which has clubs that trully represent areas of Sydney.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

This needs careful wording. Yes the Lions are here to represent Queensland in the AFL competition and yes most people will stare at you with a blank face if you mention fitzroy. But the same people who stare at you blankly couldnt tell Collingwood and Geelong apart, nor tell you who the Saints captain is. The truth is, the Lions represent the large Victorian community who have relocated to Queensland and while they represent Brisbane and QLD while in Melbourne, they too represent Fitzroy, which was evident after the premierships when they had fan days down there as well as up here.

Fitzroy's dead.

In the AFL anyway.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

I feel the same way about the Swans in Sydney. Even so, I still watch AFL. Most Sydney siders just watch the NRL which has clubs that trully represent areas of Sydney.

So will you jump ship?

From Richmond to the 'real' Sydney club?

 

[Hooley McBoob]

I won't jump ship. The Swans were in Sydney when I was born, so they're Sydney Sydney to me

I guess it depends on the type of person you are. I really like to support my local team.

I think the new western Sydney team will have an advantage in that the Swans are seen as a bit eastern suburbs/lower north shore, that's where the bulk of their support it. A new team in the west will be able to capitalise on all the work the Swans have done in expanding out there.

 

[genghiskhan]

So will you jump ship?

From Richmond to the 'real' Sydney club?

I should clarify that I am more of an AFL watcher than a Richmond supporter. I also like Essendon, and don't mind the Dockers. However, if any of them moved to Sydney I would dislike them. I would see them as sell-outs, phoneys or lacking in conviction.

 

[genghiskhan]

I won't jump ship. The Swans were in Sydney when I was born, so they're Sydney Sydney to me

I guess it depends on the type of person you are. I really like to support my local team.

I think the new western Sydney team will have an advantage in that the Swans are seen as a bit eastern suburbs/lower north shore, that's where the bulk of their support it. A new team in the west will be able to capitalise on all the work the Swans have done in expanding out there.

I think the Swans could be seen in a similar way to the Union Jack on the Australian flag. A large number of Sydney residents knew them as a Sydney team before they learnt of their Melbourne heritage. Likewise, most Australians form an affection to the Australian flag before learning that the union jack in the corner symbolises servitude to Britain. Just as the Swan's Melbourne heritage is not a concern for some Sydney siders, for most Australians, the British heritage on the flag isn't a concern either. However, even though most Australians don't care, a vocal minority does, and this minority wants the union jack removed.

You can have a big argument about which approach is better. Should you be apathetic to the union jack, or be passionate about Australia? While you can debate the merits of either approach, I don't think you can really argue that as long as the union jack is there, the Australian flag will probably be a symbol of division rather than a symbol of unity. Furthermore, it will probably inspire apathy rather than pride. Again, whether that is a positive outcome is open to debate.

While it is debateable as to whether Australia benefits from apathy and disunity, I don't think you can argue that the Sydney Swans benefit from apathy and disunity. In that regard, the fact that its name and colours were chosen to appeal to Melbournians harms its ability to gain popularity in Sydney.

 

[jackmac7]

Fitzroy's dead.

In the AFL anyway.

If Fitzroy were not associated with Brisbane would Brisbane have more fans and more of an Identity as the Bears?

Could the two clubs ever part ways?

Could Fitzroy take an offer to re-emerge by becoming the A.C.T Lions keeping their respective jumper giving old Roy fans a sense of identity and winning those lost back for the next expansion in 20 years?

It would save setting up another new team.

Can you ever see a grand Final between Brisbane Bears V A.C.T Lions at the 'G' with their more familiar footy jumpers?

 

[Professor Knowall]

... A large number of Sydney residents knew them as a Sydney team before they learnt of their Melbourne heritage. ...

A large number?? It's hardly a state secret - and anyone age about 33 up would remember when they moved up anyway. Of those younger and with any interest in that "issue", almost all know anyway - certainly all many the Sydneysiders I've discussed footy with (both in work and my annual visit to watch Collingwood up their) know about it, and not a few are even proud of their heritage - I even now of a couple who went to the old Lakeside Oval in South Melbourne just to see where the Swans came from (which must be hard for the Victorian hating genghiskhan to understand, but it obviously doesn't worry too many at all up there). But for those few for which the old Victorian heritage is an issue, the new Sydney club should fix that!

...I don't think you can argue that the Sydney Swans benefit from apathy and disunity. In that regard, the fact that its name and colours were chosen to appeal to Melbournians harms its ability to gain popularity in Sydney.

Not to the 60,000 - 70,000 I see at the games I attend up there. Never once had it raised as an issue with all the pub talk I've had up there before or after the games. As a genuine football club (with a history) they are far better placed to "capture hearts and minds" than what the News Ltd franchise has here in Melbourne, a fact that even their CEO is all too well aware of

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...of-murdoch-link/2006/08/01/1154198139063.html

However, what I will concede about the Sydney Swans is that they have captured the "captured hearts and minds" of very very few in the Western Suburbs of Sydney. The crowd demographic is very noticably middle class (or above), and unlike the Melbourne clubs (with the exception of the Melbourne FC, and to some extent Hawthorn), lacks the working class element, and thus it hasn't penetrated this large demographic in Sydney (unlike Melbourne where it covers all demographics).

I think that's one of the attractions that the new club could bring - that it will be a real alternative for the average punter to the middle class, and mostly Eastern and North Shore based Swans supporters). This also (logically) means that the AFL will be reliant on attracting new Australian Football supporters to the new club - rather than relying on defecting Swans supporters.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

I should clarify that I am more of an AFL watcher than a Richmond supporter. I also like Essendon, and don't mind the Dockers. However, if any of them moved to Sydney I would dislike them. I would see them as sell-outs, phoneys or lacking in conviction.

I know i'd still go for the bombers if they moved up here. I'm loyal to the club, not the suburb. And yes, i am Victorian.



Ask not...what your club can do for you....ask what you can do for your club..."

But seriously, you didn't answer my bloody question! Would you ditch Richmond (who you dont really care for), to support the new home grown, victoria-hating real Sydney club?

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

I think the Swans could be seen in a similar way to the Union Jack on the Australian flag. A large number of Sydney residents knew them as a Sydney team before they learnt of their Melbourne heritage. Likewise, most Australians form an affection to the Australian flag before learning that the union jack in the corner symbolises servitude to Britain. Just as the Swan's Melbourne heritage is not a concern for some Sydney siders, for most Australians, the British heritage on the flag isn't a concern either. However, even though most Australians don't care, a vocal minority does, and this minority wants the union jack removed.

You can have a big argument about which approach is better. Should you be apathetic to the union jack, or be passionate about Australia? While you can debate the merits of either approach, I don't think you can really argue that as long as the union jack is there, the Australian flag will probably be a symbol of division rather than a symbol of unity. Furthermore, it will probably inspire apathy rather than pride. Again, whether that is a positive outcome is open to debate.

While it is debateable as to whether Australia benefits from apathy and disunity, I don't think you can argue that the Sydney Swans benefit from apathy and disunity. In that regard, the fact that its name and colours were chosen to appeal to Melbournians harms its ability to gain popularity in Sydney.

Hmmmm. Reminds me of a certain code of rugby...

 

[genghiskhan]

A large number?? It's hardly a state secret - and anyone age about 33 up would remember when they moved up anyway. Of those younger and with any interest in that "issue", almost all know anyway - certainly all many the Sydneysiders I've discussed footy with (both in work and my annual visit to watch Collingwood up their) know about it, and not a few are even proud of their heritage - I even now of a couple who went to the old Lakeside Oval in South Melbourne just to see where the Swans came from (which must be hard for the Victorian hating genghiskhan to understand, but it obviously doesn't worry too many at all up there). But for those few for which the old Victorian heritage is an issue, the new Sydney club should fix that!


Not to the 60,000 - 70,000 I see at the games I attend up there. Never once had it raised as an issue with all the pub talk I've had up there before or after the games. As a genuine football club (with a history) they are far better placed to "capture hearts and minds" than what the News Ltd franchise has here in Melbourne, a fact that even their CEO is all too well aware of

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...of-murdoch-link/2006/08/01/1154198139063.html

However, what I will concede about the Sydney Swans is that they have captured the "captured hearts and minds" of very very few in the Western Suburbs of Sydney. The crowd demographic is very noticably middle class (or above), and unlike the Melbourne clubs (with the exception of the Melbourne FC, and to some extent Hawthorn), lacks the working class element, and thus it hasn't penetrated this large demographic in Sydney (unlike Melbourne where it covers all demographics).

I think that's one of the attractions that the new club could bring - that it will be a real alternative for the average punter to the middle class, and mostly Eastern and North Shore based Swans supporters). This also (logically) means that the AFL will be reliant on attracting new Australian Football supporters to the new club - rather than relying on defecting Swans supporters.

As I said with the Australian flag, there is no shortage of people who wave it with pride. There is a minority who are bothered by the union jack.

Despite the Swans getting theri fans, there is also a significant majority of people in Sydney who view Australian football as a foreign code. (In a domestic club competition, foreign means from a different state.) Arguably, that image of Australian football not being a genuine Sydney product is a result of the Melbourne image of the Swans dominating the 120 years of history Australian football has in Sydney.

I will agree with you that a second Sydney team has the potential to change that.

 

[genghiskhan]

I know i'd still go for the bombers if they moved up here. I'm loyal to the club, not the suburb. And yes, i am Victorian.



Ask not...what your club can do for you....ask what you can do for your club..."

But seriously, you didn't answer my bloody question! Would you ditch Richmond (who you dont really care for), to support the new home grown, victoria-hating real Sydney club?

I wouldn't support the Bombers if they moved to Sydney. I'd see it as a lack of integrity on the Bombers' behalf. As a club playing in Melbourne, where they were established and have their traditions, I can respect them.

(Incidently, it annoyed me that the North Shore Bears changed their name to the North Shore Bombers. An interesting piece of Sydney heritage was lost because the Bombers wanted to broaden their brand recognition.)

I would ditch Richmond for a new Sydney club if I liked the image of the new Sydney club.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

I wouldn't support the Bombers if they moved to Sydney. I'd see it as a lack of integrity on the Bombers' behalf. As a club playing in Melbourne, where they were established and have their traditions, I can respect them.

(Incidently, it annoyed me that the North Shore Bears changed their name to the North Shore Bombers. An interesting piece of Sydney heritage was lost because the Bombers wanted to broaden their brand recognition.)

I would ditch Richmond for a new Sydney club if I liked the image of the new Sydney club.

What do you actually mean by that?

 

[genghiskhan]

What do you actually mean by that?

Good name, good colours, attractive jerseys, genuine Sydney team with local connections. No w***er presidents. I think teams that are hard at the ball as well.

I like integrity in sporting clubs. I don't like privately owned clubs relocated clubs, merged clubs, clubs that let graphic design students go mad when designing new jumpers or clubs that have presidents always trying to get themselves in the papers.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I live in Brisbane and never jumped to the Bears/Lions and never would. Usually you can jump one of two ways. Either get sick of the local hype in a one team town and hate that team or get behind them and support them as a second side. The Lions are firmly my second side. I expect a Gold Coast team would become my 3rd side but that would depend on the level of hatred between the Lions and GC. If I think the GC team are smug and precious, I might hate them.

What I do appreciate is that I get to see Carlton because of the Lions being here. The newsagents stock AFL publications, the TV stations cover it more. Non-Lions merchandise bites the big one but you can't have everything.

In the NRL, I am a Sharks fan, Broncos 2nd and Cowboys were 3rd despite any Broncs/Cowboys rivalry. State of Origin loyalty is more important in the NRL though. I think the Titans will probably become the 3rd side ahead of the Cowboys however due to geographical factors.

 

[stmookeyj]

Why should I?

 

[Maddhew]

Not at the moment, i wouldt even consider it.

When i have kids etc... and if more convinent to get to the games then possibly i might consider it.

I just hope the Swans dont stop playing at homebush as a result of West Sydney. I love sunday arvos at the SCG and Sat nights at homebush.

What alot of vics dont understand is that homebush is accessible to a massive area. West Sydney isnt this poor impoverished suburb a long way from the city. It is a massive area, i can see people turning if it takes them under 30 mins on a train/bus/car, instead of getting to the pathetic public transport serviced SCG.

 

[Ant_]

Not at the moment, i wouldt even consider it.

When i have kids etc... and if more convinent to get to the games then possibly i might consider it.

I just hope the Swans dont stop playing at homebush as a result of West Sydney. I love sunday arvos at the SCG and Sat nights at homebush.

What alot of vics dont understand is that homebush is accessible to a massive area. West Sydney isnt this poor impoverished suburb a long way from the city. It is a massive area, i can see people turning if it takes them under 30 mins on a train/bus/car, instead of getting to the pathetic public transport serviced SCG.

Are they that fickle? Change teams because of ground location?