Club Focus Sydney Swans 2023 - Grundy, Jordon, Hamling, Adams, Dow (?)

[Mofra]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[Callipygian]

Nothing was being added it was the circle of “we need talls”, “there aren’t any good enough” and round in circles. What is so important that can’t wait till February/March? There’s individual threads for every player.

There's a bit of time to go between now and March and we might move on from the post-draft conversation between you and Bloods86 about talls.

I would have thought that the default is we can talk about anything Swans related we like and the onus is to justify when we can't. I would still be curious to hear an explanation that makes sense to me.

Anyway, to move forward and progress the conversation and show how it can be valuable, let me kick it forward:




What are we going to do in the list management space in 2023?

It makes more sense to look at who's coming in before considering who will go out - but we have less control over who's coming in so it's easier to do it the other way around.

I'll note that as things stand we currently have our own first, second and third round draft picks but have traded away our fourth (to Essendon for Francis) and we have acquired Hawthorn's 2nd and 3rd rounders. [I'm a bit fuzzy about this - please correct me if I'm wrong.]

Next, we have two promising Academy players - Lachlan Cabor and Caiden Cleary - coming through the ranks (both will be with the AFL Academy this season), although neither are currently shaping as first round picks. Unless we trade our early picks away (or trade forward) we'd hope to draft at least two good players before matching bids on them. While I think we will need to be prepared to let them go if there is an early bid on them (and I think KB is ruthless enough to do that), the preference would be to build the number of NSW players on our list.

Departures

I reckon we can expect at least half a dozen will go out the door at the end of the season. Who will they be?

Who's coming out of contract? There's a helpful list at the top of the page which show about a dozen. I spot a couple of possible inaccuracies: McAndrew is contracted to the end of this season, and I'd be surprised if Francis is only contracted until the end of 2023.

Buddy - almost certainly.
Rampe - maybe - it will be telling if he steps down as captain
Reid - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Hickey - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Melican - likely to be traded unless his form improves. I don't think we would de-list him - if nobody wants him we'll offer him a smaller contract.
Gould, Rankin & Sheather - all face make or break years. I'd love to see them all survive and thrive.
Amartey and McLean are in a similar position - both on the fringes of the senior side. Both likely to benefit from the departures of Buddy and, sooner or later, Reid. I think there's a fair prospect one of them will decide to leave for greater opportunity if they're not getting enough games. I also think there's a possibility they will both extend given our lack of depth up forward.

The rookies are all question marks although I think the chances of retaining Hall-Kahan, Magor and Edwards are high.

I think Ryan Clarke is in danger, and so is Sam Wicks, especially after the acquisition of Konstanty. Wicks is helped by the fact that we just cut Taylor, Bell and Ronke. Probably for that reason I think we keep Wicks but may delist Clarke. Corey Warner and Caleb Mitchell are contenders to take on those hard running roles that Clarke plays, although they haven't yet shown the ability to win so much ball and to lockdown on an opponent.

Is there a chance we would trade out Florent or Hayward as a pre-agent for the right offer? We might need to clear a bit of cap space and/or need another first round pick if we hope to make a big acquisition and they are players with good currency who we might conceivably decide are surplus to requirements. I think they are both good players, worthy best 22, and we'd prefer to hang on to them - but sometimes you have to give something to get something.

Retention

Unlike the last couple of years, there aren't many big names coming out of contract that need to be re-signed early. Sheldrick and Stephens will be priorities to re-sign. There's a chance that Stephens will be hunted by another club in which case I expect we would drive a fairly hard bargain at the trade table (unless it's a team at the bottom of the ladder who has us over a barrel). If Stephens hasn't re-signed by July I'd start to worry.

Towards the end of the season we might also start to think about re-signing players who's contracts will expire in 2024 e.g. Florent, Hayward, Blakey, Gulden, Konstanty, Vickery.

Acquisitions

All of this analysis makes it seem increasingly likely that we may try to target a KPF to bring in by way of trade (as with Plugger, BBBH and Buddy). My reasons are:

1. It is our greatest list need.
2. KPFs take a long time to develop if you draft them at 18.
3. By trading in a KPF you get a known quantity moreso than with a draftee, however promising (e.g. Tom Boyd, Schache, Patton, Paddy McCartin, Jesse Hogan).
4. We are likely to have (or be able to get) the cap space and trade capital to do a deal (with so many big contract departures in recent years) and a couple of extra picks in next year's draft already.
5. It makes sense of the decision to keep Buddy one more year.

So, if that's the plan, who do we target? Wouldn't necessarily have to be such a big name (because they are mostly locked away). Himmelberg is one lower profile name that I have heard mentioned. Others might be Todd Marshall (FWIW, Marshall hails from Deniliquin in NSW) or Mitch Georgiades from Port or possibly Esava Ratugolea. All of those players except Marshall are out of contract this year - Marshall is contracted for 2024.

A bigger name to target would be Aaron Naughton or Ben King or Jamarra Ugle-Hagan but they will be hard to get. They are all currently contracted until 2024. If we're interested in them surely now is the time for us to start talking to their management (if we haven't already). I can't see the Bulldogs letting go of Naughton, and he is a Melbourne lad. I think JUH is more of a leading forward than a pack mark, and so is more similar to Logan. Ben King I think will want to stay with the Suns especially if they are achieving success. But if the Suns have another poor season...

So is anyone keen on Himmelberg, Georgiades, Marshall or Ratugolea? They are the easiest to target. I haven't seen a lot of any of them.

We will also need another #1 or #2 ruck (depending on how Ladhams' goes) for when Hickey leaves. There are plenty of mature options traded on the ruck 'merry go round' each year, so less concerned about that.

In next year's draft I'd be expecting us to target best available with a strong preference for talls.

 

[Bloods86]

There's a bit of time to go between now and March and we might move on from the post-draft conversation between you and Bloods86 about talls.

I would have thought that the default is we can talk about anything Swans related we like and the onus is to justify when we can't. I would still be curious to hear an explanation that makes sense to me.

Anyway, to move forward and progress the conversation and show how it can be valuable, let me kick it forward:




What are we going to do in the list management space in 2023?

It makes more sense to look at who's coming in before considering who will go out - but we have less control over who's coming in so it's easier to do it the other way around.

I'll note that as things stand we currently have our own first, second and third round draft picks but have traded away our fourth (to Essendon for Francis) and we have acquired Hawthorn's 2nd and 3rd rounders. [I'm a bit fuzzy about this - please correct me if I'm wrong.]

Next, we have two promising Academy players - Lachlan Cabor and Caiden Cleary - coming through the ranks (both will be with the AFL Academy this season), although neither are currently shaping as first round picks. Unless we trade our early picks away (or trade forward) we'd hope to draft at least two good players before matching bids on them. While I think we will need to be prepared to let them go if there is an early bid on them (and I think KB is ruthless enough to do that), the preference would be to build the number of NSW players on our list.

Departures

I reckon we can expect at least half a dozen will go out the door at the end of the season. Who will they be?

Who's coming out of contract? There's a helpful list at the top of the page which show about a dozen. I spot a couple of possible inaccuracies: McAndrew is contracted to the end of this season, and I'd be surprised if Francis is only contracted until the end of 2023.

Buddy - almost certainly.
Rampe - maybe - it will be telling if he steps down as captain
Reid - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Hickey - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Melican - likely to be traded unless his form improves. I don't think we would de-list him - if nobody wants him we'll offer him a smaller contract.
Gould, Rankin & Sheather - all face make or break years. I'd love to see them all survive and thrive.
Amartey and McLean are in a similar position - both on the fringes of the senior side. Both likely to benefit from the departures of Buddy and, sooner or later, Reid. I think there's a fair prospect one of them will decide to leave for greater opportunity if they're not getting enough games. I also think there's a possibility they will both extend given our lack of depth up forward.

The rookies are all question marks although I think the chances of retaining Hall-Kahan, Magor and Edwards are high.

I think Ryan Clarke is in danger, and so is Sam Wicks, especially after the acquisition of Konstanty. Wicks is helped by the fact that we just cut Taylor, Bell and Ronke. Probably for that reason I think we keep Wicks but may delist Clarke. Corey Warner and Caleb Mitchell are contenders to take on those hard running roles that Clarke plays, although they haven't yet shown the ability to win so much ball and to lockdown on an opponent.

Is there a chance we would trade out Florent or Hayward as a pre-agent for the right offer? We might need to clear a bit of cap space and/or need another first round pick if we hope to make a big acquisition and they are players with good currency who we might conceivably decide are surplus to requirements. I think they are both good players, worthy best 22, and we'd prefer to hang on to them - but sometimes you have to give something to get something.

Retention

Unlike the last couple of years, there aren't many big names coming out of contract that need to be re-signed early. Sheldrick and Stephens will be priorities to re-sign. There's a chance that Stephens will be hunted by another club in which case I expect we would drive a fairly hard bargain at the trade table (unless it's a team at the bottom of the ladder who has us over a barrel). If Stephens hasn't re-signed by July I'd start to worry.

Towards the end of the season we might also start to think about re-signing players who's contracts will expire in 2024 e.g. Florent, Hayward, Blakey, Gulden, Konstanty, Vickery.

Acquisitions

All of this analysis makes it seem increasingly likely that we may try to target a KPF to bring in by way of trade (as with Plugger, BBBH and Buddy). My reasons are:

1. It is our greatest list need.
2. KPFs take a long time to develop if you draft them at 18.
3. By trading in a KPF you get a known quantity moreso than with a draftee, however promising (e.g. Tom Boyd, Schache, Patton, Paddy McCartin, Jesse Hogan).
4. We are likely to have (or be able to get) the cap space and trade capital to do a deal (with so many big contract departures in recent years) and a couple of extra picks in next year's draft already.
5. It makes sense of the decision to keep Buddy one more year.

So, if that's the plan, who do we target? Wouldn't necessarily have to be such a big name (because they are mostly locked away). Himmelberg is one lower profile name that I have heard mentioned. Others might be Todd Marshall (FWIW, Marshall hails from Deniliquin in NSW) or Mitch Georgiades from Port or possibly Esava Ratugolea. All of those players except Marshall are out of contract this year - Marshall is contracted for 2024.

A bigger name to target would be Aaron Naughton or Ben King or Jamarra Ugle-Hagan but they will be hard to get. They are all currently contracted until 2024. If we're interested in them surely now is the time for us to start talking to their management (if we haven't already). I can't see the Bulldogs letting go of Naughton, and he is a Melbourne lad. I think JUH is more of a leading forward than a pack mark, and so is more similar to Logan. Ben King I think will want to stay with the Suns especially if they are achieving success. But if the Suns have another poor season...

So is anyone keen on Himmelberg, Georgiades, Marshall or Ratugolea? They are the easiest to target. I haven't seen a lot of any of them.

We will also need another #1 or #2 ruck (depending on how Ladhams' goes) for when Hickey leaves. There are plenty of mature options traded on the ruck 'merry go round' each year, so less concerned about that.

In next year's draft I'd be expecting us to target best available with a strong preference for talls.

Oh no, I still maintain "we need talls" (although that's a fair simplification of what I've said). Luckily, you've gone through and made my case (again) for me with the list of likely departures and players that are unproven (mostly ruck/KPPs). So we then agree we need to look at a KPF, although I'd suggest a ruck is just as high a priority. But we at least made some effort to address that need in the rookie draft. And we may well go to a mature ager as backup for Ladhams, assuming he looks like a no.1 ruck by end of 2023.

Where we'll also differ is whether we can attract anyone proven/best 22 via trade. I don't think we'll be able to bank on that after the removal of COLA, which puts us back into a disadvantage when attracting signatures. Why come to Sydney when your hometown / big Vic club can pay you the same and you'll get more value? I think we will still be able to attract disgruntled players, fringe players, players with some specific connection to the club. It does help if we stay up the ladder. E.g. I think we got "lucky" with Ladhams being annoyed at Port (although our interactions at his draft time helped) and Paddy via his brother being at the club. I doubt we'll be able to poach players when they are relatively comfortable at their clubs, or we face competition.

Georgiades will stay at Port, or move home to WA. Marshall I don't think is going anywhere, though I'd love to have him. With Dixon getting on and Marshall having his breakout year, he'll get locked up at Port, or he'd wait until RFA.

I think we're just a draft, academy and occasional fringe/disgruntled trade club now. Hence why some of us really wanted to address needs via the draft (sooner rather than later), which was a mixed bag on that front.

 

[Callipygian]

Thanks for your reply B86.

You have correctly identified the points we disagree. I'm much more optimistic about being able to trade in someone if we need/want to, despite the additional difficulties in luring someone to Sydney. For some players Sydney is an attraction (out of the fishbowl, good weather and lifestyle) and for others it's a turnoff (expensive, not a cultural fit). I agree there were reasons we were able to attract Ladhams and McCartin but I don't agree that they are such rare events and I think there will regularly be players who are gettable for one reason or another. Plus if we can offer a fat pay cheque (and if we want to I think we are now getting to the point that we can) then that might also help us attract top tier players.

I can't see why Marshall would wait for RFA status. Either he'll be interested or he won't. The relevance of the RFA status is more vis-a-vis the club and the price we will have to pay at the trade table.

There aren't a lot of strong KPF options (they're too valuable to be left lying around). I would seriously consider Ratugolea. He is out of contract and clearly willing to move. He grew up in NSW (Griffith then Cobram, right on the (other side of the) border). I see him as having most of the assets of Amartey and McLean combined. He is more agile and athletic than McLean but a similarly strong mark. He is able to ruck as well as Amartey. I'm not sure what his tank is like. He would combine well with Logan - he could be the pack mark/bring the ball to ground guy and Logan could be the CHF who can lead up the ground.

A consequence of our different perspectives on the trade scenario is that I am less perturbed by the omission to draft a tall this year. I'd say I line up more with LP#1's perspective.

 

[Kiama Chris]

There's a bit of time to go between now and March and we might move on from the post-draft conversation between you and Bloods86 about talls.

I would have thought that the default is we can talk about anything Swans related we like and the onus is to justify when we can't. I would still be curious to hear an explanation that makes sense to me.

Anyway, to move forward and progress the conversation and show how it can be valuable, let me kick it forward:




What are we going to do in the list management space in 2023?

It makes more sense to look at who's coming in before considering who will go out - but we have less control over who's coming in so it's easier to do it the other way around.

I'll note that as things stand we currently have our own first, second and third round draft picks but have traded away our fourth (to Essendon for Francis) and we have acquired Hawthorn's 2nd and 3rd rounders. [I'm a bit fuzzy about this - please correct me if I'm wrong.]

Next, we have two promising Academy players - Lachlan Cabor and Caiden Cleary - coming through the ranks (both will be with the AFL Academy this season), although neither are currently shaping as first round picks. Unless we trade our early picks away (or trade forward) we'd hope to draft at least two good players before matching bids on them. While I think we will need to be prepared to let them go if there is an early bid on them (and I think KB is ruthless enough to do that), the preference would be to build the number of NSW players on our list.

Departures

I reckon we can expect at least half a dozen will go out the door at the end of the season. Who will they be?

Who's coming out of contract? There's a helpful list at the top of the page which show about a dozen. I spot a couple of possible inaccuracies: McAndrew is contracted to the end of this season, and I'd be surprised if Francis is only contracted until the end of 2023.

Buddy - almost certainly.
Rampe - maybe - it will be telling if he steps down as captain
Reid - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Hickey - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Melican - likely to be traded unless his form improves. I don't think we would de-list him - if nobody wants him we'll offer him a smaller contract.
Gould, Rankin & Sheather - all face make or break years. I'd love to see them all survive and thrive.
Amartey and McLean are in a similar position - both on the fringes of the senior side. Both likely to benefit from the departures of Buddy and, sooner or later, Reid. I think there's a fair prospect one of them will decide to leave for greater opportunity if they're not getting enough games. I also think there's a possibility they will both extend given our lack of depth up forward.

The rookies are all question marks although I think the chances of retaining Hall-Kahan, Magor and Edwards are high.

I think Ryan Clarke is in danger, and so is Sam Wicks, especially after the acquisition of Konstanty. Wicks is helped by the fact that we just cut Taylor, Bell and Ronke. Probably for that reason I think we keep Wicks but may delist Clarke. Corey Warner and Caleb Mitchell are contenders to take on those hard running roles that Clarke plays, although they haven't yet shown the ability to win so much ball and to lockdown on an opponent.

Is there a chance we would trade out Florent or Hayward as a pre-agent for the right offer? We might need to clear a bit of cap space and/or need another first round pick if we hope to make a big acquisition and they are players with good currency who we might conceivably decide are surplus to requirements. I think they are both good players, worthy best 22, and we'd prefer to hang on to them - but sometimes you have to give something to get something.

Retention

Unlike the last couple of years, there aren't many big names coming out of contract that need to be re-signed early. Sheldrick and Stephens will be priorities to re-sign. There's a chance that Stephens will be hunted by another club in which case I expect we would drive a fairly hard bargain at the trade table (unless it's a team at the bottom of the ladder who has us over a barrel). If Stephens hasn't re-signed by July I'd start to worry.

Towards the end of the season we might also start to think about re-signing players who's contracts will expire in 2024 e.g. Florent, Hayward, Blakey, Gulden, Konstanty, Vickery.

Acquisitions

All of this analysis makes it seem increasingly likely that we may try to target a KPF to bring in by way of trade (as with Plugger, BBBH and Buddy). My reasons are:

1. It is our greatest list need.
2. KPFs take a long time to develop if you draft them at 18.
3. By trading in a KPF you get a known quantity moreso than with a draftee, however promising (e.g. Tom Boyd, Schache, Patton, Paddy McCartin, Jesse Hogan).
4. We are likely to have (or be able to get) the cap space and trade capital to do a deal (with so many big contract departures in recent years) and a couple of extra picks in next year's draft already.
5. It makes sense of the decision to keep Buddy one more year.

So, if that's the plan, who do we target? Wouldn't necessarily have to be such a big name (because they are mostly locked away). Himmelberg is one lower profile name that I have heard mentioned. Others might be Todd Marshall (FWIW, Marshall hails from Deniliquin in NSW) or Mitch Georgiades from Port or possibly Esava Ratugolea. All of those players except Marshall are out of contract this year - Marshall is contracted for 2024.

A bigger name to target would be Aaron Naughton or Ben King or Jamarra Ugle-Hagan but they will be hard to get. They are all currently contracted until 2024. If we're interested in them surely now is the time for us to start talking to their management (if we haven't already). I can't see the Bulldogs letting go of Naughton, and he is a Melbourne lad. I think JUH is more of a leading forward than a pack mark, and so is more similar to Logan. Ben King I think will want to stay with the Suns especially if they are achieving success. But if the Suns have another poor season...

So is anyone keen on Himmelberg, Georgiades, Marshall or Ratugolea? They are the easiest to target. I haven't seen a lot of any of them.

We will also need another #1 or #2 ruck (depending on how Ladhams' goes) for when Hickey leaves. There are plenty of mature options traded on the ruck 'merry go round' each year, so less concerned about that.

In next year's draft I'd be expecting us to target best available with a strong preference for talls.

Definitely an HD for that one!
KPF
1) We might be able to draft one but they won't make an impact for a number of years. Need to have a decent pick to get a good candidate.
2) If we are able to identify and attract a trade candidate who is better than who we have they will cost us a first round pick and probably a second round pick or even two as well, significantly affecting our draft.
3) We may choose to do nothing and rely on who we have and/or moving one of the McCartins or Francis forward. Not impossible.
Ruck
Heaven only knows as Stretch and Owen look a long way off yet.
Defenders
Biggest concern here looks to be the overlap between the three older defenders (Rampe, Fox and Lloyd) and the younger brigade. Hard to see where we fit Gould, Francis or Melican in the current structure and hard to see why we would change it.
Midfield (inside and outside) and Forwards
Same problem. Established good performers. Hard to break in.
My feeling is that the club will again make the smallest number of changes possible but this time it will hurt a fair bit more.
Out of the Seniors:
Buddy surely retires
Rampe a big chance to retire
Hickey though he might go another year in the VFL as back up like Sinclair.
In danger:
Fox, Clarke
Out of VFL
Melican especially if traded
Cunningham
Amartey traded if we land a good KPF
One more, possibly Rankin
Obviously a lot depends on how guys go during the season. We would be mad to trade Amartey out unless we traded in someone better. We would want to see how Edwards is travelling before letting Melican go and so on.
It's all very hypothetical at this stage!

 

[Dangerousfield]

Swans 2023 an interesting watch. Could solidify 2022's surprising gains or may slip back with the hardest draw and younger players still needing to develop.

Their drafting this year will either prove genius and prove Phantom Drafters really don't know anywhere near as much as they think they do, or it could deliver nought and prove that the Swans really did draft bolters.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Swans 2023 an interesting watch. Could solidify 2022's surprising gains or may slip back with the hardest draw and younger players still needing to develop.

Their drafting this year will either prove genius and prove Phantom Drafters really don't know anywhere near as much as they think they do, or it could deliver nought and prove that the Swans really did draft bolters.

I trust our recruiters on the last point. They haven’t got many wrong lately. In a shallow draft to get Konstanty even if the others fail it’s fine. We’ve added a top 25 pick next year (hawks second).

Not fussed with draws every year people whinge about what’s hard and what’s easy. Did anyone have the Pies in the top 4 last season? Those double ups everyone wanted…

 

[Bloods86]

Swans 2023 an interesting watch. Could solidify 2022's surprising gains or may slip back with the hardest draw and younger players still needing to develop.

Their drafting this year will either prove genius and prove Phantom Drafters really don't know anywhere near as much as they think they do, or it could deliver nought and prove that the Swans really did draft bolters.

Wouldn't read too much into the fixture, we just went 7-2 against the teams we double up against. If Gold Coast weren't somehow a bogey side for us, we'd have gone 8-1. Basically, if we can get decent years out of Buddy, Hickey, Rampe, Reid, then there should be further improvement from the rest of the side which is fairly young, and we should challenge again. Had a fair run with injuries, so that'd help too. I'm a bit concerned post-2023 when we'll have a bunch of KPPs and Hickey finish up.

 

[Bloods86]

Thanks for your reply B86.

You have correctly identified the points we disagree. I'm much more optimistic about being able to trade in someone if we need/want to, despite the additional difficulties in luring someone to Sydney. For some players Sydney is an attraction (out of the fishbowl, good weather and lifestyle) and for others it's a turnoff (expensive, not a cultural fit). I agree there were reasons we were able to attract Ladhams and McCartin but I don't agree that they are such rare events and I think there will regularly be players who are gettable for one reason or another. Plus if we can offer a fat pay cheque (and if we want to I think we are now getting to the point that we can) then that might also help us attract top tier players.

I can't see why Marshall would wait for RFA status. Either he'll be interested or he won't. The relevance of the RFA status is more vis-a-vis the club and the price we will have to pay at the trade table.

There aren't a lot of strong KPF options (they're too valuable to be left lying around). I would seriously consider Ratugolea. He is out of contract and clearly willing to move. He grew up in NSW (Griffith then Cobram, right on the (other side of the) border). I see him as having most of the assets of Amartey and McLean combined. He is more agile and athletic than McLean but a similarly strong mark. He is able to ruck as well as Amartey. I'm not sure what his tank is like. He would combine well with Logan - he could be the pack mark/bring the ball to ground guy and Logan could be the CHF who can lead up the ground.

A consequence of our different perspectives on the trade scenario is that I am less perturbed by the omission to draft a tall this year. I'd say I line up more with LP#1's perspective.

I think Marshall will stay at Port, use RFA to bump up his contract. Just as likely he would move on to a big Vic club as come to us. Certainly if we thought he was gettable, I'd be keen, but suspect we'll be outbid by someone.

Ratugolea has played more KPD recently, I believe that's why Port were interested. So I'm not sure he's what we need, at least if we're targeting him as a forward.

I think we'll have some money to throw around next year, but we'll have used a chunk of the Buddy money to lock down Heeney, Mills, Papley. We've also signed a few others on longer term deals (Jmac, Tom McCartin), and we've got a lot of younger guys who will attract interest, so probably will be overpaying a few. If Amartey or McLean look like best 22 beyond next year, then we'll probably need to up their salary to keep them (especially if it's another season of limited opportunities).

I just prefer to control what you can and do the best with what you have, and not pin the club's future on "hopefully we trade some good, established players in next year".

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I trust our recruiters on the last point. They haven’t got many wrong lately. In a shallow draft to get Konstanty even if the others fail it’s fine. We’ve added a top 25 pick next year (hawks second).

Not fussed with draws every year people whinge about what’s hard and what’s easy. Did anyone have the Pies in the top 4 last season? Those double ups everyone wanted…

To be fair the swans record (i do understand some of those picks were pre dalrymple) with first rounders (besides academy picks) isnt very good at all. But your record with late and rookie picks is outstanding. My issue with your 2022 picks isnt more the players themselves but that you didnt actually address any of your list needs (with player type) at all and when you have some key players over 30 thats risky.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

To be fair the swans record (i do understand some of those picks were pre dalrymple) with first rounders (besides academy picks) isnt very good at all. But your record with late and rookie picks is outstanding. My issue with your 2022 picks isnt more the players themselves but that you didnt actually address any of your list needs (with player type) at all and when you have some key players over 30 thats risky.

We needed a small forward after delisting two got the best one in Konstanty. That is very much a needs selection. We did not rate the tall options after Jefferson and we tried to move up.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Swans are in a very healthy position going forwards.

I dare say they probably exceeded their own internal expectations by making the Grand Final.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We needed a small forward after delisting two got the best one in Konstanty. That is very much a needs selection. We did not rate the tall options after Jefferson and we tried to move up.

I would disagree its a need for you even with the ones you delisted you still have papley and gulden (i recognise he plays mid and fwd but when he's there hes a super half forward) and wicks plus you have mid sized forwards like hayward and heeney i dont see that as a massive need and i dont think konstanty is significantly better than wicks (which he would want to be to spend a r1 on him).

Whereas for example hickey will be 32 when the season starts, i dont particularly rate ladhams and you have little behind them. Franklin is 36 reid is 31 (and near the end given his injury record) rampe will be 33 this year (and mcartin has to be a year to year prospect given his injury history). Those player types would be more needs based picks in my view (for example if you had taken barnett or gruzewski instead of konstanty and van es instead of vickery and/or keeler or lemmey instead of mitchell would have been a needs based draft imo).

I feel like you added a lot of player types that you already have and didnt add enough of player types you dont have. but time will tell.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I would disagree its a need for you even with the ones you delisted you still have papley and gulden (i recognise he plays mid and fwd but when he's there hes a super half forward) and wicks plus you have mid sized forwards like hayward and heeney i dont see that as a massive need and i dont think konstanty is significantly better than wicks (which he would want to be to spend a r1 on him).

Whereas for example hickey will be 32 when the season starts, i dont particularly rate ladhams and you have little behind them. Franklin is 36 reid is 31 (and near the end given his injury record) rampe will be 33 this year (and mcartin has to be a year to year prospect given his injury history). Those player types would be more needs based picks in my view (for example if you had taken barnett or gruzewski instead of konstanty and van es instead of vickery and/or keeler or lemmey instead of mitchell would have been a needs based draft imo).

I feel like you added a lot of player types that you already have and didnt add enough of player types you dont have. but time will tell.

Wicks is awful I’m more than happy spending our second first rounder on Konstanty. I had us taking a smaller type at our second pick and we did. First pick we flipped to next year and that was expected. Im coming around to the pick at 27, all talk is he plays small defender but athletic so I get it in that regard just feel personally we went early.

Barnett aside not sure there was a tall on the board that I wanted really.

 

[RUNVS]

To be fair the swans record (i do understand some of those picks were pre dalrymple) with first rounders (besides academy picks) isnt very good at all. But your record with late and rookie picks is outstanding. My issue with your 2022 picks isnt more the players themselves but that you didnt actually address any of your list needs (with player type) at all and when you have some key players over 30 thats risky.

You aren't wrong. I think most Swans fans felt we needed a big bodied inside mid and a KPD capable of taking on the 200cm key forwards and we didn't address either need.

 

[Callipygian]

I would disagree its a need for you even with the ones you delisted you still have papley and gulden (i recognise he plays mid and fwd but when he's there hes a super half forward) and wicks plus you have mid sized forwards like hayward and heeney i dont see that as a massive need and i dont think konstanty is significantly better than wicks (which he would want to be to spend a r1 on him).

Whereas for example hickey will be 32 when the season starts, i dont particularly rate ladhams and you have little behind them. Franklin is 36 reid is 31 (and near the end given his injury record) rampe will be 33 this year (and mcartin has to be a year to year prospect given his injury history). Those player types would be more needs based picks in my view (for example if you had taken barnett or gruzewski instead of konstanty and van es instead of vickery and/or keeler or lemmey instead of mitchell would have been a needs based draft imo).

I feel like you added a lot of player types that you already have and didnt add enough of player types you dont have. but time will tell.

Good commentary on our list, P_O.

We said all along that we weren't going to draft for needs and would just take best available. Evidently we weren't joking.

We addressed our tall needs a bit in the rookie draft with a couple of talls (Edwards, Owen) - but granted they are long-shot project players.

Pre-draft I felt the same as you. Post-draft I'm content to back our list managers and feel like we have enough depth for the season ahead and we'll have to see how we address our depth longer term in the next off-season. I think Konstanty and Vickery are both going to be good gets but will need a bit of time given their youth and size. Magor also looks promising.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Good commentary on our list, P_O.

We said all along that we weren't going to draft for needs and would just take best available. Evidently we weren't joking.

We addressed our tall needs a bit in the rookie draft with a couple of talls (Edwards, Owen) - but granted they are long-shot project players.

Pre-draft I felt the same as you. Post-draft I'm content to back our list managers and feel like we have enough depth for the season ahead and we'll have to see how we address our depth longer term in the next off-season. I think Konstanty and Vickery are both going to be good gets but will need a bit of time given their youth and size. Magor also looks promising.

Looks a significantly better draft next year for the options we need that is a positive, it's why I wanted best available at one of our first rounders and if we couldn't trade up (we could not, we did try!) then I was a fan of flipping that second for a pick next year which we did. Our second and third picks seem the ultimate Hail Mary's however they have come out and said they see Vickery as a small defender type and that is an area that we do lack. Konstanty I love that pick, and you only have to see how happy he was getting drafted by us.

 

[Vindicater]

They have most of what they need to continue building towards the premiership. Going for best available at this point is probably smart as they can fill holes in the next few years wth free agents/trades.

 

[Obeanie1]

They have most of what they need to continue building towards the premiership. Going for best available at this point is probably smart as they can fill holes in the next few years wth free agents/trades.

Not sure about that. Swans are very light on for quality rucks and KP forwards. McDonald is developing and will be one.

Also need an elite KP defender.

And those take years to develop.

Swans will be throwing serious cash at Himmleberg. Exactly what they need.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Not sure about that. Swans are very light on for quality rucks and KP forwards. McDonald is developing and will be one.

Also need an elite KP defender.

And those take years to develop.

Swans will be throwing serious cash at Himmleberg. Exactly what they need.

Rather go for Barass thanks

 

[SSwans2011]

Not sure about that. Swans are very light on for quality rucks and KP forwards. McDonald is developing and will be one.

Also need an elite KP defender.

And those take years to develop.

Swans will be throwing serious cash at Himmleberg. Exactly what they need.

That's sort of the point though. None of the key forwards or rucks we could have taken in the draft would have been ready in the next few years.

Our other key need was a key defender that could compete with the monster key forwards, and anyone we took in the draft to do that would be no more suited to the role than either of the McCartins, or even Will Gould, for close to the next half a decade or so.

 

[Obeanie1]

Rather go for Barass thanks

Next captain at Eagles and signed up long term.

Would be perfect for the Swans hence why they enquired 12 months ago.

Save your cash. Will need it to keep McDonald when he comes OOC at the end of 2024. Eagles will have a mountain of free cash in the next 2 years.

Tim English a RFA at the end of 2024 will interest both clubs I'm sure.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Next captain at Eagles and signed up long term.

Would be perfect for the Swans hence why they enquired 12 months ago.

Save your cash. Will need it to keep McDonald when he comes OOC at the end of 2024. Eagles will have a mountain of free cash in the next 2 years.

Tim English a RFA at the end of 2024 will interest both clubs I'm sure.

Not really have Ladhams who is the same at a cheaper price wouldn’t go near English.

 

[Obeanie1]

Not really have Ladhams who is the same at a cheaper price wouldn’t go near English.

Ladham's is still relatively unproven.

Hickey will be 33 in two years.

Neither shout out 'premiership ruck quality'.

Then again some clubs rate rucks where others spend the cash elsewhere such as Hawthorn.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Ladham's is still relatively unproven.

Hickey will be 33 in two years.

Neither shout out 'premiership ruck quality'.

Then again some clubs rate rucks where others spend the cash elsewhere such as Hawthorn.

We will do what we have done for ages trade for a reasonable ruck without paying the bank. Hickey a perfect example.