Club Focus Sydney Swans 2023 - Grundy, Jordon, Hamling, Adams, Dow (?)

[Mofra]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[Ticky009]

So everyone can agree that we won the trade period, right?


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There's no winning a trade period. Because its all dependant on the next year or the year after that results.

More like, Swans achieved their trade targets early in the trade period like the professional football club they are.

 

[DeathlyAccurate]

There's no winning a trade period. Because its all dependant on the next year or the year after that results.

More like, Swans achieved their trade targets early in the trade period like the professional football club they are.

Yeah that’s way too logical and dull.

I’m going with we won.


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[Ed_Gein]

Its an interesting strategy. They clearly think they are in the window.

After Charlie Gardner was interviewed about our trades, I'm reading into it that the Swans wanted more mature bodies in the middle to help out Rowbottom, Warner, and Gulden, which Grundy and Adams will provide. We got those 2 for peanuts and if they help out for the next 2-4 years as those 3 youngster develop, then it's a good thing overall for us.

 

[ashep]

Trading is done, but godfather 2 year offer to Tomahawk about to drop any minute.

 

[Jeremias]

In: James Jordon, Joel Hamling

29

Joel Hamling

Age

31

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.0

3star

, Taylor Adams

3

Taylor Adams

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.9

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.4

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.4

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.9

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

18.2

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

, Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

Out: Dylan Stephens

Draft Picks: 12, 45, 55, 91

Went in looking to add experience, came out with plenty of it - most acquired very cheaply.

Got to be happy with that as Swans fans, don't you?

 

[RUNVS]

In: James Jordon, Joel Hamling, Taylor Adams, Brodie Grundy

Out: Dylan Stephens

Draft Picks: 12, 45, 55, 91

Went in looking to add experience, came out with plenty of it - most acquired very cheaply.

Got to be happy with that as Swans fans, don't you?

Yes I am. We desperately needed a ruckman and an inside mid and we got what we needed. We should be a stronger side in 2024 than 2023.

 

[Caj]

In: James Jordon, Joel Hamling, Taylor Adams, Brodie Grundy

Out: Dylan Stephens

Draft Picks: 12, 45, 55, 91

Went in looking to add experience, came out with plenty of it - most acquired very cheaply.

Got to be happy with that as Swans fans, don't you?

Absolutely

We’re in the window now and needed to address those holes

Not fussed that the guys we bought in are 30 given the minimal trade capital used

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

In: James Jordon, Joel Hamling, Taylor Adams, Brodie Grundy

Out: Dylan Stephens

Draft Picks: 12, 45, 55, 91

Went in looking to add experience, came out with plenty of it - most acquired very cheaply.

Got to be happy with that as Swans fans, don't you?

Imo, Swans had the best trade period given they strengthened problem areas of their list & maintained 1st rounder.

Brought in 4 genuine best 22 players.

 

[Vindicater]

In: James Jordon, Joel Hamling, Taylor Adams, Brodie Grundy

Out: Dylan Stephens

Draft Picks: 12, 45, 55, 91

Went in looking to add experience, came out with plenty of it - most acquired very cheaply.

Got to be happy with that as Swans fans, don't you?

Solid if unspectacular.

Very Sydney.

 

[BloodySwan]

You wont find a Swans fan disappointment with that trade period. Strengthened every aspect which needed targeting and didn't spend that much capital. Puts us in a good position for a tilt, plus we still have high draft picks to continue with some young development

 

[Vindicater]

You wont find a Swans fan disappointment with that trade period. Strengthened every aspect which needed targeting and didn't spend that much capital. Puts us in a good position for a tilt, plus we still have high draft picks to continue with some young development

Shouldn't be upset with it. Was solid.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Shouldn't be upset with it. Was solid.

Would you say it was Premiership winning solid?

 

[BloodySwan]

Would you say it was Premiership winning solid?

There's no reason we shouldn't be top 4 with our list. Pressure will be high

 

[RUNVS]

There's no reason we shouldn't be top 4 with our list. Pressure will be high

Yep. Adams and Grundy are not long term prospects but we should still see their bests over the next 2 seasons and that is our window.

 

[Callipygian]

There's a bit of time to go between now and March and we might move on from the post-draft conversation between you and Bloods86 about talls.

I would have thought that the default is we can talk about anything Swans related we like and the onus is to justify when we can't. I would still be curious to hear an explanation that makes sense to me.

Anyway, to move forward and progress the conversation and show how it can be valuable, let me kick it forward:




What are we going to do in the list management space in 2023?

It makes more sense to look at who's coming in before considering who will go out - but we have less control over who's coming in so it's easier to do it the other way around.

I'll note that as things stand we currently have our own first, second and third round draft picks but have traded away our fourth (to Essendon for Francis) and we have acquired Hawthorn's 2nd and 3rd rounders. [I'm a bit fuzzy about this - please correct me if I'm wrong.]

Next, we have two promising Academy players - Lachlan Cabor and Caiden Cleary - coming through the ranks (both will be with the AFL Academy this season), although neither are currently shaping as first round picks. Unless we trade our early picks away (or trade forward) we'd hope to draft at least two good players before matching bids on them. While I think we will need to be prepared to let them go if there is an early bid on them (and I think KB is ruthless enough to do that), the preference would be to build the number of NSW players on our list.

Departures

I reckon we can expect at least half a dozen will go out the door at the end of the season. Who will they be?

Who's coming out of contract? There's a helpful list at the top of the page which show about a dozen. I spot a couple of possible inaccuracies: McAndrew is contracted to the end of this season, and I'd be surprised if Francis is only contracted until the end of 2023.

Buddy - almost certainly.
Rampe - maybe - it will be telling if he steps down as captain
Reid - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Hickey - maybe - will be form and injury dependent
Melican - likely to be traded unless his form improves. I don't think we would de-list him - if nobody wants him we'll offer him a smaller contract.
Gould, Rankin & Sheather - all face make or break years. I'd love to see them all survive and thrive.
Amartey and McLean are in a similar position - both on the fringes of the senior side. Both likely to benefit from the departures of Buddy and, sooner or later, Reid. I think there's a fair prospect one of them will decide to leave for greater opportunity if they're not getting enough games. I also think there's a possibility they will both extend given our lack of depth up forward.

The rookies are all question marks although I think the chances of retaining Hall-Kahan, Magor and Edwards are high.

I think Ryan Clarke is in danger, and so is Sam Wicks, especially after the acquisition of Konstanty. Wicks is helped by the fact that we just cut Taylor, Bell and Ronke. Probably for that reason I think we keep Wicks but may delist Clarke. Corey Warner and Caleb Mitchell are contenders to take on those hard running roles that Clarke plays, although they haven't yet shown the ability to win so much ball and to lockdown on an opponent.

Is there a chance we would trade out Florent or Hayward as a pre-agent for the right offer? We might need to clear a bit of cap space and/or need another first round pick if we hope to make a big acquisition and they are players with good currency who we might conceivably decide are surplus to requirements. I think they are both good players, worthy best 22, and we'd prefer to hang on to them - but sometimes you have to give something to get something.

Retention

Unlike the last couple of years, there aren't many big names coming out of contract that need to be re-signed early. Sheldrick and Stephens will be priorities to re-sign. There's a chance that Stephens will be hunted by another club in which case I expect we would drive a fairly hard bargain at the trade table (unless it's a team at the bottom of the ladder who has us over a barrel). If Stephens hasn't re-signed by July I'd start to worry.

Towards the end of the season we might also start to think about re-signing players who's contracts will expire in 2024 e.g. Florent, Hayward, Blakey, Gulden, Konstanty, Vickery.

Acquisitions

All of this analysis makes it seem increasingly likely that we may try to target a KPF to bring in by way of trade (as with Plugger, BBBH and Buddy). My reasons are:

1. It is our greatest list need.
2. KPFs take a long time to develop if you draft them at 18.
3. By trading in a KPF you get a known quantity moreso than with a draftee, however promising (e.g. Tom Boyd, Schache, Patton, Paddy McCartin, Jesse Hogan).
4. We are likely to have (or be able to get) the cap space and trade capital to do a deal (with so many big contract departures in recent years) and a couple of extra picks in next year's draft already.
5. It makes sense of the decision to keep Buddy one more year.

So, if that's the plan, who do we target? Wouldn't necessarily have to be such a big name (because they are mostly locked away). Himmelberg is one lower profile name that I have heard mentioned. Others might be Todd Marshall (FWIW, Marshall hails from Deniliquin in NSW) or Mitch Georgiades from Port or possibly Esava Ratugolea. All of those players except Marshall are out of contract this year - Marshall is contracted for 2024.

A bigger name to target would be Aaron Naughton or Ben King or Jamarra Ugle-Hagan but they will be hard to get. They are all currently contracted until 2024. If we're interested in them surely now is the time for us to start talking to their management (if we haven't already). I can't see the Bulldogs letting go of Naughton, and he is a Melbourne lad. I think JUH is more of a leading forward than a pack mark, and so is more similar to Logan. Ben King I think will want to stay with the Suns especially if they are achieving success. But if the Suns have another poor season...

So is anyone keen on Himmelberg, Georgiades, Marshall or Ratugolea? They are the easiest to target. I haven't seen a lot of any of them.

We will also need another #1 or #2 ruck (depending on how Ladhams' goes) for when Hickey leaves. There are plenty of mature options traded on the ruck 'merry go round' each year, so less concerned about that.

In next year's draft I'd be expecting us to target best available with a strong preference for talls.

I'm not sure how this thread got started but my quoted post upfront (I'm sure it was originally posted in a different thread) I think has aged pretty well. I don't feel embarrassed to stand by it.

We tried to get a big name forward (Naughton, Larkey) to partner with McDonald, but didn't succeed. Fortunately both McLean and Amartey came on really well this year, which is more than we could have expected. They're not A-graders but they are a quite serviceable forward line and we can still look to improve in future. Amartey is the most mercurial - his best is very exciting but it has only come inconsistently (both within and between games). We've also brought in Buller, who looks promising, so the urgency on that front has really dialled down in my opinion.

We got the ruck to replace Hickey that we needed - and did better than we might have hoped with Grundy. We've really improved our depth, upgrading the fringe players with Clarke, Stephens, Gould out and bringing in Adams, Jordon and Hamling. Happily I think my optimism about being able to trade in players has been vindicated over Bloods86 Bloods86' pessimism on this score (see at post 3 in this thread).

Obviously Adams will be best 22 and he will hopefully stiffen our midfield which has been lacking a little bit of strength and hardness since the departure of JPK and others. The only downside about his acquisition is that it will deprive Sheldrick and Roberts of some opportunities - I hope we can hang on to them. That's why I don't think Adams' age hurts at all - we can use the promise of spots opening with first Parker's, and then Adams' departures looming).

We have gotten a bit older but we can afford that because we otherwise have a relatively young list and we had Buddy and Hickey depart. Smart recruiting if you ask me.

Still have to see who we draft - only two weeks to go! No idea who we will take (or what we will do) with our first pick. I don't love the way it sits just beyond or at the outermost edge of the top tiers of talent (it often seems to work out that way). There are lots of draftable prospects available then but they all feel like options that might equally be available another 10 picks later (or equivalent to other players who will be available 10 picks later). After that we'll most likely match a bid on Caiden Cleary* and upgrade Fox.

Personally I would still be having a preference for drafting a tall player. We have added 5 talls in the last 12 months (Owen, Edwards, Arnold, Buller, Grundy) but we have also lost 5 (McCartin, Buddy, Hickey, Owen, Gould). The dream would be Connor O'Sullivan but there seems Buckley's chance of that happening. Not sure who's next. I confess I am quite tempted by Schoenmakers with his elite kicking - but it's quality tall defence that we really need, not elite kicking, and I don't know who the best tall defender option is.


* I still think there's a teeny chance that if a bid comes really early for Cleary that we might not match.

 

[Bloods86]

I'm not sure how this thread got started but my quoted post upfront (I'm sure it was originally posted in a different thread) I think has aged pretty well. I don't feel embarrassed to stand by it.

We tried to get a big name forward (Naughton, Larkey) to partner with McDonald, but didn't succeed. Fortunately both McLean and Amartey came on really well this year, which is more than we could have expected. They're not A-graders but they are a quite serviceable forward line and we can still look to improve in future. Amartey is the most mercurial - his best is very exciting but it has only come inconsistently (both within and between games). We've also brought in Buller, who looks promising, so the urgency on that front has really dialled down in my opinion.

We got the ruck to replace Hickey that we needed - and did better than we might have hoped with Grundy. We've really improved our depth, upgrading the fringe players with Clarke, Stephens, Gould out and bringing in Adams, Jordon and Hamling. Happily I think my optimism about being able to trade in players has been vindicated over Bloods86 Bloods86' pessimism on this score (see at post 3 in this thread).

Obviously Adams will be best 22 and he will hopefully stiffen our midfield which has been lacking a little bit of strength and hardness since the departure of JPK and others. The only downside about his acquisition is that it will deprive Sheldrick and Roberts of some opportunities - I hope we can hang on to them. That's why I don't think Adams' age hurts at all - we can use the promise of spots opening with first Parker's, and then Adams' departures looming).

We have gotten a bit older but we can afford that because we otherwise have a relatively young list and we had Buddy and Hickey depart. Smart recruiting if you ask me.

Still have to see who we draft - only two weeks to go! No idea who we will take (or what we will do) with our first pick. I don't love the way it sits just beyond or at the outermost edge of the top tiers of talent (it often seems to work out that way). There are lots of draftable prospects available then but they all feel like options that might equally be available another 10 picks later (or equivalent to other players who will be available 10 picks later). After that we'll most likely match a bid on Caiden Cleary* and upgrade Fox.

Personally I would still be having a preference for drafting a tall player. We have added 5 talls in the last 12 months (Owen, Edwards, Arnold, Buller, Grundy) but we have also lost 5 (McCartin, Buddy, Hickey, Owen, Gould). The dream would be Connor O'Sullivan but there seems Buckley's chance of that happening. Not sure who's next. I confess I am quite tempted by Schoenmakers with his elite kicking - but it's quality tall defence that we really need, not elite kicking, and I don't know who the best tall defender option is.


* I still think there's a teeny chance that if a bid comes really early for Cleary that we might not match.

We did better in trades than I thought, having said that Adams was the surprise. I did say we could get the odd disgruntled player and I think Grundy fits that given his stint in reserves (hopefully winds the clock back several years before form issues). Hamling is fringe, though given alternatives, may find himself in the 22 for much of the year if fit. Jordon I'd have said was brought in to be Best 22, but it'll be a struggle with Adams and once Mills returns.

Of course, I'll never see eye to eye with LP1 on best available vs needs for our situation most years. I'm on the talls train again, given we're not any better off for KPDs, ruck depth a few years from now, and an Amartey injury from fielding all our KPFs with no depth (an observable detriment to VFL development, success, and having reserve players playing during finals runs).