Sydney will NEVER be an AFL city.

[meekaboy]

I totally agree that Sydney will not be an AFL city. But the potential
for the growth of AFL lies in the non AFL established states. The growth
of Aussie rules does not lie in Vic, SA, WA or Tas but in is NSW and Qld.

I feel most would agree that if an organisation does not grow its future
will be very limited or perhaps cease to exist.

 

[Vulcan]

I totally agree that Sydney will not be an AFL city. But the potential
for the growth of AFL lies in the non AFL established states. The growth
of Aussie rules does not lie in Vic, SA, WA or Tas but in is NSW and Qld.

I feel most would agree that if an organisation does not grow its future
will be very limited or perhaps cease to exist.

Yeah that's the reality mate when in fact the only thing all of us want is a nice quiet and uncomplicated life.
Still searching.

 

[demoniac]

Never say never - at least never say never that Sydney will not be able to support 2 viable AFL teams.

The Swans have only been in Sydney for 22 years - which in the context of a competition that has been going on for 109 years and a code that is 148 years old is not alot of time - and it is only in recent years that the AFL has started spending the money and the effort required on game development in NSW, and Sydney in particular.

The dollars put in to game development, the securing of Telstra Stadium in Western Sydney as an AFL configured venue and the work that the AFL is doing - often with the Australian Cricket Board who also want as many ovals as possible - in working with Councils on greenfield housing estates are a solid basis for the development of AFL in Sydney.

It won't happen overnight but it will happen - Sydney will have the Swans and the Western Sydney Bulldogs and they will be viable. (There'll be a second team in Brisbane too - 2 teams in each of Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane (Kangaroos) and Sydney, leaving 7 in Melbourne and 1 in Geelong)

The sooner the AFL transplants the Bullies to Western Sydney the better. Better to underwrite the establishent of a club to represent Western Sydney than to keep on underwriting a club like the Bullies who exist in a crowded Melbourne marketplace and have no hope of generating the income required to be a viable AFL team.

The establishment of a second team in Western Sydney would also promote a 'them v us' between that team and the Swans and their traditional Eastern suburbs supporter base thus also strengthening the Swans.

The National Rugby League - Shurely should be the East Coast and Shaky Isles Rugby League - faces a tough road ahead as it battles Rugby Union and AFL. There is no reason that a Competition will prosper just because it has been in existence for 100 years. AFL and Rugby Union are far more attractive games than League - over time I am confident that AFL and Union will prosper at the expense of league. I am not saying League will die, just not prosper and develop. AFL also has the most efficient business structure with its independent commission, followed by the ARU - compromised by the fact that its main competition is jointly run by SA and NZ and then the ARL/NRL/NSWRL/QRL.

 

[Hicham]

"I am not saying League will die, just not prosper and develop."

Yes, League isn't prospering and developing at all, lol. You're welcome back to Earth at any time.

And yes, Union is prospering. It can't even get it's premier compeition on FTA TV.

lol.

 

[littleduck]

Never say never - at least never say never that Sydney will not be able to support 2 viable AFL teams.

I wouldnt say never. It's entirely possible right now but the downside is taking money away from grassroots development. The pie is only so big and if you want a massive slice of it to go into another team requiring propping up inititally then the rest of the pie will suffer.

It won't happen overnight but it will happen - ...

I don't disagree, but wonder why many of you claim an inevitability about the AFL conquering Sydney but Rugby League has no future in Melbourne regardless what they do or how much they spend. Classic double standards methinks.

The establishment of a second team in Western Sydney would also promote a 'them v us' between that team and the Swans and their traditional Eastern suburbs supporter base thus also strengthening the Swans.

You're assuming that Western Sydney will embrace the Footscray Bulldogs from day one as their team. Arguably that's overly optimistic and the initial challenge which may never be overcome. In my view a 2nd Sydney side needs to be a fresh start to develop a uniquely Sydney identity and culture and not be hassled by a longstanding Melbourne heritage.

The National Rugby League - Shurely should be the East Coast and Shaky Isles Rugby League - faces a tough road ahead as it battles Rugby Union and AFL.

On recent performances it's competing at world record pace.

There is no reason that a Competition will prosper just because it has been in existence for 100 years.

Absolutely true.

AFL and Rugby Union are far more attractive games than League - over time I am confident that AFL and Union will prosper at the expense of league.

Misplaced confidence and ignorance in the eyes of the many.

I am not saying League will die, just not prosper and develop.

Recent years including the current season would suggest otherwise...

AFL also has the most efficient business structure with its independent commission, followed by the ARU - compromised by the fact that its main competition is jointly run by SA and NZ and then the ARL/NRL/NSWRL/QRL.

There is merit in that argument if argued correcntly. If argued correctly, I would agree 100%.

 

[Hurbie]

A team transplanted into Sydney called the Bulldogs is asking for failure.

Canterbury are the biggest club of any code inside Sydney. And most people who don't support them despise them....A new club is required.

 

[littleduck]

A team transplanted into Sydney called the Bulldogs is asking for failure.

Canterbury are the biggest club of any code inside Sydney. And most people who don't support them despise them....A new club is required.

Yeah, the Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs represent much of Western Sydney.

 

[Hurbie]

Yeah, the Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs represent much of Western Sydney.

They are the biggest club in the Macarthur and the Liverpool region for support. They rival Parramatta, St George and Penrith in their catchments and have sizeable support in the rest of the city. The club did some great work embracing Sydney's ethnic minorities and they've been rewarded handsomely for it (Some negatives of course, but most Sydney clubs would happily trade places imo)

 

[Bert Foster]

Born and bred in Melbourne, still bleed black and yellow, lived in Sydney for 11 years, involved in Auskick here in Sydney.

Whether Sydney will ever be "an AFL city" is irrelevant - it is whether it can sustain one team, two teams or more. Right now it can sustain the Swans. And the posts on the increasing interest, and uptake of Auskick are right. A remaining issue is penetration into secondary schools (hence the investment in the apprentice scheme - need to get the kids interested and the schools).

Sustaining one team however is not necessarily a great result for Australia's most populated city.

The question is, can the AFL get a reasonable return on investment from pumping money into the State. There are so many issues involved in the answer.

One really important issue, which is being missed, is whether the AFL Commission (ACT/NSW) is acting for the benefit of the game - or acting for the benefit of the Swans. Or is this the same thing?

For the record, to my fellow Tiger IITB, while I love Melbourne, Sydney is a great place to live. Is it really a competition?

 

[4for brisbane]

NEWSFLASH: general consensus is that RL has not only recovered from Super League but is again growing rapidly and prospering at all levels of the game.

And I disagree with your ARL/Super League story. I view Super League as a missed opportunity for the game that will never happen again. If the ARL and News Ltd had worked together for the benefit of the game and expansion RL would only have been better for it. I don't think the ARL should have bent over and accepted all of News Ltd's as you suggest because I believe in the early 90's the ARL was in a strong bargaining position to negotiate favourably with News Ltd. If News Ltd were to be the ARL's "$100 million dollar friend" then why not try to work together rather than rejecting them? Let's not kid ourselves that the real reason for AFL stubborness was the influence of KP at ARL HQ.

Above all, Super League was a once in a lifetime missed opportunity for the game to accelerate its growth nationally and internationally.

i think i'll [we will?] agree to disagree with the whole superleague thing as our positions are a long way apart

 

[4for brisbane]

.

It won't happen overnight but it will happen - Sydney will have the Swans and the Western Sydney Bulldogs and they will be viable. (There'll be a second team in Brisbane too - 2 teams in each of Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane (Kangaroos) and Sydney, leaving 7 in Melbourne and 1 in Geelong)

The sooner the AFL transplants the Bullies to Western Sydney the better. Better to underwrite the establishent of a club to represent Western Sydney than to keep on underwriting a club like the Bullies who exist in a crowded Melbourne marketplace and have no hope of generating the income required to be a viable AFL team.

agree with much of what i edited out of your quote, but it won't ever be the bulldogs moving to western sydney
the canterbury bankstown bulldogs, now seemingly always the 'dogs' wear blue n white and are based in the area you suggest a new afl goes to [west/south west sydney]

legally a bulldogs team would have bugger all chance of being allowed
in the same area/market-to some extent its what will save the western bulldogs from been forced by the afl to move to sydney as besides the move they'll have to change their name

as has been suggested a new team is needed IF it is to happen

 

[littleduck]

i think i'll [we will?] agree to disagree with the whole superleague thing as our positions are a long way apart

maybe, but at the very least we'll agree the civil war damaged the game.

 

[Hawkk]

Re: Sydney will NEVER be an AFL state.

and you live where?
you have no idea about se qld and the basics of population growth [even taking into account the problems with projections]
again a state that in a matter of decades will be bigger than victoria has 1 afl team
you feeling insecure that your hawks will leave the cold and fly up to the gc on a permanent basis?

Hardly think that is likely so I will ignore the fact of the 35 000 members and the 20 000 000 dollar training facilty.

Lets face it, the Gold Coast is building but what about the Sunshine Coast.

'That is the new in Vogue place to be

 

[finders]

Just for all the "worlds greatest city " lovers! From todays SMH

Property plunge exposes weak state
By Matt Wade, Jessica Irvine and Bonnie Malkin
July 2, 2005

The number of new homes and flats approved in Sydney has fallen to levels not seen since the last recession, raising fresh doubts about the health of the property market and underscoring how the NSW economy is lagging behind the rest of Australia.

Just 1207 houses and flats were approved for construction in May, less than half the number approved in Melbourne. In Brisbane the figure was 1903 and Perth 1586.

An ABN Amro economist, Kieran Davies, said home and unit approvals in Sydney were now lower than during the GST-related housing slump in 2000 and the deep economic downturn of the early 1990s. "The weak housing market is in line with the weak overall state of the economy of the state," Mr Davies said.
Macquarie Bank's chief economist, Richard Gibbs, said the Sydney market was "dead in the water" and that any recovery was likely to be a long way off.

NSW approvals plunged by 22.9 per cent, led by a sharp drop in approvals for multi-unit developments. Building approvals in NSW are now 38.1 per cent lower than a year ago. It was the second fall of more than 20 per cent in the past three months, following the 27.5 per cent fall in March.

Nationally, building approvals rose 4.5 per cent in May fuelled by a 40 per cent jump in Queensland. The weak approval figures come amid fresh reports of a sluggish market for established houses. The volume of established home sales in NSW dropped by 22 per cent in the March quarter. Some Sydney municipalities, including Blacktown, Penrith and Baulkham Hills, recorded falls of 25 per cent, Housing Industry Association figures show.

The association's chief economist, Simon Tennent, said the NSW market had been "crippled" by the drop in sales volume. The slow-down was a result of home owners staying away from the market in the hope that prices would improve, he said.

"People are sitting on their hands and saying, 'If we're going to get $50,000 less for our house than we would have got 12 months ago, we might as well just sit on it'. That's the sentiment in the market place at the moment."

The trend of low sales and underperformance in NSW was set to continue for another 12 to 18 months, Mr Tennent said.

The plunge in building approvals will increase pressure on the Carr Government to scrap the vendor duty on the sale of residential investment properties. The president of the Real Estate Institute of NSW, Rowen Kelly, said the 2.25 per cent duty was to blame for the drop in sales.

"We have had many reports from members where owners listed their properties for sale and then their solicitors advised them they would be paying vendor duty and they withdrew their properties," Mr Kelly said.

"A lot of owners are saying, 'We will wait and see if John Brogden gets in. He has promised to abolish vendor duty, and we've only got just under two years to wait.' "

The federal Treasurer, Peter Costello, has renewed his attack on the NSW and West Australian Governments for refusing to abolish business stamp duties, which he says should be eliminated because of rising GST revenue.

He said he would take action within a year to ensure taxpayers in these states were not disadvantaged.

However, his counterpart in NSW, Andrew Refshauge, said Mr Costello had refused to discuss an offer to cut business and property taxes in return for a fairer share of GST.

 

[Spiritof82]

The sooner the AFL transplants the Bullies to Western Sydney the better. Better to underwrite the establishent of a club to represent Western Sydney than to keep on underwriting a club like the Bullies who exist in a crowded Melbourne marketplace and have no hope of generating the income required to be a viable AFL team.

If the bulldogs were underwritten by the AFL like Sydney has been they would've won the premiership each and every year: guarenteed at least 11 home games, bumped up salary cap, unlimited money to poach high quality players from other clubs like Lockett, the fat slug that is currently FF and others, guarenteed TV coverage and advertising support, a scheme where all other clubs are forced to develop NSW players, preferred treatment at the tribunal, a biased draw that each year sees Sydney getting the majority of the last 8 rounds played at home, AFL presidents determination to give Sydney a premiership cup in the near future.

Yes we may get some money from the AFL (like North and Melbourne) but nowhere like the support that the AFL gives to its love child in crap city.

 

[Magpiespower]

Probably because Sydney is crucial to the national competition.

Unlike the Western Bulldogs.

 

[Spiritof82]

Probably because Sydney is crucial to the national competition.

Unlike the Western Bulldogs.

Sydney is not critical for the national competition, why have a team like Sydney in a nothing town that nobody supports unless they get free tickets to get in to watch. Sydney is only supported by the AFL to try and earn the corporate sponsorship money and TV rights, the AFL has no interest in the common supporter, they wouldn't care if the games had no crowds at them, as long as the money comes in from other areas.

 

[LordLucifer]

No matter how hard the AFL try, NSW will always follow the bum sniffing code rugby. It's a lost cause I'm afraid. They have no idea whatsover about AFL.

I'm quite amazed to read this from a Richmond supporter after their team choked rather badly squandering a 45 point lead to scrape home by the solitary point.

I think your club has far more to worry about than whether the Sydney Football club can conquer the city in which it now resides.

 

[Rob]

If the bulldogs were underwritten by the AFL like Sydney has been they would've won the premiership each and every year:
guarenteed at least 11 home games, bumped up salary cap, unlimited money to poach high quality players from other clubs like Lockett, the fat slug that is currently FF and others, guarenteed TV coverage and advertising support, a scheme where all other clubs are forced to develop NSW players, preferred treatment at the tribunal, a biased draw that each year sees Sydney getting the majority of the last 8 rounds played at home, AFL presidents determination to give Sydney a premiership cup in the near future.

Yes we may get some money from the AFL (like North and Melbourne) but nowhere like the support that the AFL gives to its love child in crap city.

$1.5m a year and you're still whingeing.
Just take your handout and go and stand in the corner.

 

[itsintheblood]

I'm quite amazed to read this from a Richmond supporter after their team choked rather badly squandering a 45 point lead to scrape home by the solitary point.

I think your club has far more to worry about than whether the Sydney Football club can conquer the city in which it now resides.

You absolute tool. We won the game correct???? I could pursue you over the absolute crap the swans dished out for 3 qtrs and how at every given opportunity they had 18 of their players on the richmond forward line and were STILL headed by almost 8 goals. Then all of a sudden, they realised there was a game to be won and start to play some decent football and the tiges made a couple of silly mistakes. BUT WE STILL GOT THE POINTS YOU TROLLOP.

 

[4for brisbane]

maybe, but at the very least we'll agree the civil war damaged the game.

agreed

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

Personally I don't buy this "Sydney people have other things to do" line. Spending a weekend in Melbourne there's quite a lot of things to do (esp eating out, but that's just me) while it's possible to bore yourself into submission in Sydney suburbia.

That is why I don't live in Westmead Dave!

JF

 

[big bear]

Sydney is not critical for the national competition, why have a team like Sydney in a nothing town that nobody supports unless they get free tickets to get in to watch. Sydney is only supported by the AFL to try and earn the corporate sponsorship money and TV rights, the AFL has no interest in the common supporter, they wouldn't care if the games had no crowds at them, as long as the money comes in from other areas.

I wish someone would give me a free ticket. Wake up to the current situation. We have more members than the doggies and members pay.

Sydney is the largest city in the country and IS important to a NATIONAL competition.Wake up.

 

[LordLucifer]

You absolute tool. We won the game correct???? I could pursue you over the absolute crap the swans dished out for 3 qtrs and how at every given opportunity they had 18 of their players on the richmond forward line and were STILL headed by almost 8 goals. Then all of a sudden, they realised there was a game to be won and start to play some decent football and the tiges made a couple of silly mistakes. BUT WE STILL GOT THE POINTS YOU TROLLOP.

Listen k0kbreath, you may have got the points in the end but there were a number of your players completely pooping their pants in that last 10 minutes. A decent team does not throw away an 8 goal lead and then gloat that they 'got the points'. Take your head out of your date, you may be able to smell the roses then !!