Tall Defender Depth

[Testekill]

I'm not the only one worried about the fact that our only backup for Lake if he goes down injured are Markovic and Mulligan. Markovic is very slow while Mulligan has that issue as well as not being that great when it comes to decision making. So did we recruit Barlow to fill this problem? Rookie Hahn so that he could come in if Lake goes down for the season?

I just do not know at all.

 

[Janelle]

I feel as though Barlow is an replacement for Everitt, they both could be extremely exciting if they just had more aggression towards the ball. If Barlow can find that, he could develop into a fairly good third tall rebounding backman, if we choose to play him there.

 

[Igloo]

I think we recruited Barlow for this reason. He is big enough to be able to handle the bigger forwards, but as Janelle said, needs to be harder at it.
I dont think that is the only reason we got him though. He can really play anywhere, so I think he is just for depth in general.

But I am also worried about our KPD stocks, or lack of.

 

[The Original Swooper]

This issue has been raised in various threads, and yes, it seems apparent there is a concern. After being involved in footy for a few eons, I can assure you a few things will happen. Come R1, there will always be a bolter gaining selection due to a ripper off season and great praccy match form. This is a player who nobody penned into their opening team in December! Similarly, when deficiencies are noted, some players are "re-invented" into a different role. Muligatawny soup and Markabit won't blossom into sprinters, however either may develop into steady old fashioned FB types. Not great, but better than a small fry being thrown to the wolves. Barlow needs work as has been mentioned, his intestinal fortitude being his biggest problem. He definitely has the size and speed to adapt. But as I outlined in my rant thread, I believe the young Jones boy will be developed as a KPD back up. We may find out as early as R1 too, as Lake may be pressing to be fit in time.

Then there is the unlikely (but it does happen!) scenario one of the new fellas beef up, and progresses a lot quicker than aqnyone anticipated. So, lets wait and see before we hit the panic buttons. How terrified were Saints supporters when Zaccy Dawson was their main man? He has now played in 2GF's!! I am confident our MC are addressing the issue as we speak!

hooroo...

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Then there is the unlikely (but it does happen!) scenario one of the new fellas beef up, and progresses a lot quicker than aqnyone anticipated. So, lets wait and see before we hit the panic buttons. How terrified were Saints supporters when Zaccy Dawson was their main man? He has now played in 2GF's!!

Not to be pedantic, but by my count Zac has actually played 4 GF in his 2 years
2009 v Geelong
2010 V W Bulldogs (NAB CUP)
2010 V Collingwood (Draw)
2010 V Collingwood (Replay)

Just hasn't contributed to a premiership.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Why are we fretting?

Just because a player isn't a 'defender' doesn't mean he can't be transformed into one. Plenty of tall forwards have been re-invented into tall defenders over the years.

 

[The Original Swooper]

Not to be pedantic, but by my count Zac has actually played 4 GF in his 2 years
2009 v Geelong
2010 V W Bulldogs (NAB CUP)
2010 V Collingwood (Draw)
2010 V Collingwood (Replay)

Just hasn't contributed to a premiership.

A pedant picks up on a spelling error, you have simply pointed out my oversight. I'll concede 3...but the NAB cup...come on...

hooroo....

 

[The Original Swooper]

Why are we fretting?

Just because a player isn't a 'defender' doesn't mean he can't be transformed into one. Plenty of tall forwards have been re-invented into tall defenders over the years.

You are right on the money. I get sick of hearing dumb comments about kids at eighteen years of age along the lines of.."but he has played his entire career as a XXX..." Brian Lake came to the club as a forward... he is now a dual AA full back. Hmmmm.

hooroo.....

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Reports of Lake's demise are grossly exaggerated.

 

[josh the gent]

Thinking of Ed Barlow, surely the approach to him would be to get him to put on upper body muscle over the pre-season, and groom him as a monster stopper.

He would be a fearsome full-back. He is the right height (196cm), already around 99 kgs (plus extra pre-season muscle), can run like the wind (i.e. keep up with Riewoldt no problems), and has decent disposal.

His criticism has been around his lack of toughness at winning the contested ball. Is that issue not reduced if he is played at full-back (in the absence of Lake), where he would not be winning his own ball on the ground, but competing for it in the air by virtue of spoiling his opponent?

His speed and endurance should easily see him keep up with any forward, it's just a matter of finding out if he can spoil and wrestle.

Those skills are vastly different to those of an inner mid which he will clearly never be...

Is this right, or have I mis-read the info on him?!

 

[Jack Harkaway]

You can't replace a player like Lake if he gets injured, or Morris for that matter. So all you can do is replace them with someone who can do a job and make do. So if we did lose a Lake or a Morris for some of the season then Markovic, Barlow and Mulligan are the ones that need to step up. And who knows given a chance what they might do. Hahn also could be used but not as a a key defender.

Recruitment of a young key position defender would be more for the future not next year. The more mature ages guys we have would have to do the job.

Faulks would have been a great get for us. Pedderson perhaps, although I'm not even sure we were looking at him? Anyway, we missed out on them.

I think Jones could be groomed to play as a defender also, he did play defense as a junior at times.

So we have options, like all teams, if you lose your best players you can't really replace them, you have to rejig and make do. We have enough players for that. But if we lost lake for the season it would be a massive blow of course.

 

[bulldogsman]

Thinking of Ed Barlow, surely the approach to him would be to get him to put on upper body muscle over the pre-season, and groom him as a monster stopper.

He would be a fearsome full-back. He is the right height (196cm), already around 99 kgs (plus extra pre-season muscle), can run like the wind (i.e. keep up with Riewoldt no problems), and has decent disposal.

His criticism has been around his lack of toughness at winning the contested ball. Is that issue not reduced if he is played at full-back (in the absence of Lake), where he would not be winning his own ball on the ground, but competing for it in the air by virtue of spoiling his opponent?

His speed and endurance should easily see him keep up with any forward, it's just a matter of finding out if he can spoil and wrestle.

Those skills are vastly different to those of an inner mid which he will clearly never be...

Is this right, or have I mis-read the info on him?!

According to a few Sydney supporters comments on here he's not physical enough at the contest meaning he won't go hard at the ball for a spoil etc. As a backman he will need do this against good opponents like Riewoldt who launch themselves at the ball. He's also not great in one on one situations. Also judging from Dalrymples comments they see him as a medium defender, run with player or a lead up forward. Might be better suited to play on guys like Goddard rather then Riewoldt.

 

[stefoid]

To stop Riewolt from marking, you first have to be with him - even with Morris playing on him, Riewolt can get free after his 3rd or 4th lead from one side of the ground to the other - his opponent simply cannot keep up.

Theoretically, if Barlow can keep up, then he is as good a chance to stop a Riewolt style of player as anyone.

But yeah, from descriptions he sounds like Bandy mark II -- all the athletic ability in the world and NFI what to do with it.

 

[stefoid]

You can add Tom Hill to the long term depth for possible backs - although listed as a forward, was described as a versatile swingman with good hands and sound skills.

As a fullback, I dont know.

 

[StringyDog]

Thinking of Ed Barlow....
He would be a fearsome full-back.

Ed Barlow and fearsome used together, funniest thing I have seen on bigfooty in ages. Opposition players would be more worried about Stack charging toward them than Barlow knowing that he will pull out of contest EVERY single time.

 

[mighty seagulls]

Is Williams name mentioned in this thread???

Short term if Lake went down is Williams and Morris.

Long term when Lake and Morris retire is Williams and Jones, with the hope a rookie and young recruit comes in (eg. Morris a few years ago)

 

[Kelvin31]

Is Williams name mentioned in this thread???

Short term if Lake went down is Williams and Morris.

Long term when Lake and Morris retire is Williams and Jones, with the hope a rookie and young recruit comes in (eg. Morris a few years ago)

Here here.....For the sake of accuracy, at least mention Tom's name and Shaggy when mentioning "tall" defenders. Grant and/or Jones could be thrown into the arguement too.

 

[Jack Harkaway]

Tom Williams is not a depth player, he's in the best 22. The thread is about depth of our KP defenders. Who is back up to Morris, Williams and Lake.

I think based on where Tom is right now we can replace him...though he's improving all the time. We can't replace Morris or Lake as easily next year.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Ed Barlow and fearsome used together, funniest thing I have seen on bigfooty in ages. Opposition players would be more worried about Stack charging toward them than Barlow knowing that he will pull out of contest EVERY single time.

You've obviously got a hang-up about Barlow. Just remember one thing - he's a ROOKIE.

He's not on our senior list, and if he doesn't work out by the end of next year, we don't have to retain him.

I'm used to this kind of negativity after we lose a game, but we haven't done that for nearly three months now.

Lighten up people.

 

[Pigdog]

Tom Williams is not a depth player, he's in the best 22. The thread is about depth of our KP defenders. Who is back up to Morris, Williams and Lake.

I think based on where Tom is right now we can replace him...though he's improving all the time. We can't replace Morris or Lake as easily next year.

We can't replace Cooney or Griffen easily next year either.

Lake is the best key defender in the game... He can't be replaced.

Morris is one of the best pure defenders in the game... He can't be replaced.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

It is not about who is irreplaceable, it is actually about how you cover any player who is missing for any reason.

The strength of a footy club is how far down you go to cover losses with the least impact on the competitiveness of the team.

Players like Barlow and Hahn are about minimising the reduction in output.

We are pretty well placed in most field positions but it is hard to have adequate cover for key personnel at any club.

Ask how Collingwood could cope with the loss of Ben Reid and Nathan Brown and you will find we are in a similar position.

 

[smashh]

I'm not the only one worried about the fact that our only backup for Lake if he goes down injured are Markovic and Mulligan. Markovic is very slow while Mulligan has that issue as well as not being that great when it comes to decision making. So did we recruit Barlow to fill this problem? Rookie Hahn so that he could come in if Lake goes down for the season?

I just do not know at all.

Really?
If Lake goes down, then Morris to FB, Williams to CHB and can easily fill in with Hargrave on a third tall. too easy

 

[Godzilla!]

I can see Liam Jones playing as our CHB for the rest of his career. Not saying it's going to happen, but it's a very possible possibility.

Lake
Williams
Morris
Hargrave
Jones
Barlow (r)

Depth is fine.

 

[josh the gent]

Ed Barlow and fearsome used together, funniest thing I have seen on bigfooty in ages. Opposition players would be more worried about Stack charging toward them than Barlow knowing that he will pull out of contest EVERY single time.

That's funny, I don't remember full-back's going into 'ball hitting the deck' style contests very often - do you?

He would be a fearsome prospect because he has great athletic capacity, and by playing full-back, he minimises his weakness which is toughness at the footy when it's on the ground.

His ability to wrestle, spoil, and his general disposal are the things that his suitability for full-back or a KPD position should be based on.

His athletic ability should allow him to be able to spoil quite effectively, so long as you can keep up with any forward, you are a chance of spoiling them.

His disposal has never been a weakness in the past.

His height and weight indicate he shouldn't be too bad at 1-on-1 wrestling-style contest too, but this is what really needs to be developed.

Barlow has failed thus far in his career as a utility midfielder. We should try to develop him as a KPD - if it comes off then we have a defender who could actually go with Riewoldt.

That's a fearsome prospect.

 

[dogzrule]

I can see Liam Jones playing as our CHB for the rest of his career. Not saying it's going to happen, but it's a very possible possibility.

Lake
Williams
Morris
Hargrave
Jones
Barlow (r)

Depth is fine.

I also heard Cordy interviewed on the news the other night mentioning he has hit the 100kg mark !! Surely at the very least it will free up another forward and Cordy could play as a 6'10" forward pocket ?

There is no lack of height or ability, just experience