Tasmania

[blaze036]

Verdun.. a lot of what ur saying has plently of passion but little sense. u DO need the numbers to support a team, and yes u COULD play if the AFL gave u a "subsidy" (which im fairly sure u dont know the definition of...) but the point is in the long run its just going to be a money guzzler for no real benefit to the game as a whole.

Ur continual inference that hawthorn (and to a lesser extent north melbourne) are greedily and nefariously comming and stealing ur "tax paying dollars" is absoluty ludicrous. Tasmania wanted live AFL in tasmania, they stated that. They then got it thanks to an agreement between a certain afl club(s) and the tasmanian government which generates revenue for both hawthorn AND TASMANIA.

When u said "look at what Tasmania can do for the sport"... it is kind of the downfall to your whole argument. What CAN tasmania do for the sport? 20 thousand (or so) AFL supporters SWITCH from a victorian club to a tasmania club (no benefit), NO extra people start watching the game, cursed to have forever small crowds, NO extra tv rights money (as there would still only be 9 games a week) NO new people converted to AFL.
Its late so im sorry if thats hard to follow, but the summary is negative negative negative.

So please can u further explain ur comment, What CAN Tasmania do for the game? Not a single person doesnt want a team in the state, however people like me (and rob) who are perhaps not blinded by "passion" can see the cold hard facts and are pointing them out to you, u can accept them or not.

 

[Verdun]

Verdun.. a lot of what ur saying has plently of passion but little sense. u DO need the numbers to support a team, and yes u COULD play if the AFL gave u a "subsidy" (which im fairly sure u dont know the definition of...) but the point is in the long run its just going to be a money guzzler for no real benefit to the game as a whole.

Ur continual inference that hawthorn (and to a lesser extent north melbourne) are greedily and nefariously comming and stealing ur "tax paying dollars" is absoluty ludicrous. Tasmania wanted live AFL in tasmania, they stated that. They then got it thanks to an agreement between a certain afl club(s) and the tasmanian government which generates revenue for both hawthorn AND TASMANIA.

When u said "look at what Tasmania can do for the sport"... it is kind of the downfall to your whole argument. What CAN tasmania do for the sport? 20 thousand (or so) AFL supporters SWITCH from a victorian club to a tasmania club (no benefit), NO extra people start watching the game, cursed to have forever small crowds, NO extra tv rights money (as there would still only be 9 games a week) NO new people converted to AFL.
Its late so im sorry if thats hard to follow, but the summary is negative negative negative.

So please can u further explain ur comment, What CAN Tasmania do for the game? Not a single person doesnt want a team in the state, however people like me (and rob) who are perhaps not blinded by "passion" can see the cold hard facts and are pointing them out to you, u can accept them or not.

Tasmania can economically support a team - please read the Gemba report commissioned by the State government in 2008 - not the AFL. This was Hird' consulting firm before he went on to coach. This report was presented TO the AFL

It is a fact that Hawthorn were in financial trouble before they received money from here. It is the same for North.

Tassie has contributed to the AFL by propping up teams and contributing players for decades this is damn obvious. I understand the AFL does very well out of Tas; we are football state cold hard fact as well as us contributing huge money currently to 2 clubs is a cold hard fact. Some of this should come back to Tas and we should not have to pay for the privilege of watching teams that are only here for the money.

For me to have to explain what we do for football is ridiculous; it should be understood.

Tasmania deserves better than this condescending attitude.

Passion is part of football - and i understand that our numbers are not the same as Collingwoods and we would never get the concessions but as I stated earlier some equity would be good!!

 

[Messenger]

typical

commercial arangement that has saved the Hawks and I am sure you have no problem with that - you endorse what I am saying

I as a Tasmanian tax payer have paid your club out of trouble

And Im a Victorian taxpayer that subsidizes your state. HFC didn't come down with nightsticks and take over. It was signed off by an elected government. Twice.

I won't deny the deal has benefited the club enormously, but I think you overstate the position to say you saved us.

when I went to the g earlier in the year and looked at all the Tasmanian signs not one Hawks supporter recoginised the dollars that went to your club..when i cynically yelled carn Tassie i was abused and rightly so

Do you yell "Go Centrebet" at St Kilda games?

Tasmania deserves better
It may be a commercial arangement but it is one way to the HAWKS at last recognise this, most Tasmanians do but this will not continue- you should thank us for saving your club from financial ruin the dollars might good in the short terrm......

Again I don't accept your initial premise that we were stuffed at the time of the deal, but I'm personally pleased and grateful for the arrangement. HFC run community camps and provide financial support to junior football in the state, so I would not characterize the return on investment as zero (in fact the Tasmanian government believes there is a net economic benefit through tourism and match day expenditure). They also supply four AFL games a season plus a pre season games. Our 40000 odd Victorian members would like those back.

 

[sherrinorburley]

How many players from Essendon are from Essendon, how many players from Freeo (or coaches) are from Freeo, how many players from Collingwood are from Collingwood are Collingwood - silly argument; how many players do WA export for their cricket team - how many Shield and one day comps has WA won in the last 5 years

James Hird commisioned a report that argued that Tas could support a team in the AFL...I agree. At the moment we sponsor other teams to come here and export players to other teams.

Population is not the answer ( it may be for a simple and argument / solution) but we can do it without the numbers but with the talent.

We have the talent

We subsidise other teams

The old chestnut of I am not against a Tassie team but; is a weak go with the flow argument - look outside of the square and look at what Tasmania can and has done for the sport.

A rant hey interesting term - I believe it is both substance and passion; we may have a small population but we contribute.. again I think you should look at what Tas has contributed and continues to do so... realise it is not a concern to you but at some stage the contribution that a state the size of Tas makes should be recognised

May be right with North but Tas would love a team of its own and it would thrive

Good post and mostly on the money. Unlike your detractors

 

[Papa G]

I've said it a thousand times, but if Tassie wants it's own team it's inhabitants have to turn their back on the AFL. They have to stop watching it on TV, they have to stop going to the Hawthorn/North Melbourne games, they have to stop paying for their Victorian clubs memberships. The Victorians treat you like fools and you all lap it up. Won't happen, but it will be the only way the AFL will take any notice of you.

 

[madmug]

I've said it a thousand times, but if Tassie wants it's own team it's inhabitants have to turn their back on the AFL. They have to stop watching it on TV, they have to stop going to the Hawthorn/North Melbourne games, they have to stop paying for their Victorian clubs memberships. The Victorians treat you like fools and you all lap it up. Won't happen, but it will be the only way the AFL will take any notice of you.

No we dont all lap it up.

 

[Papa G]

No we dont all lap it up.

Are you a paid up member of Collingwood?

 

[madmug]

Are you a paid up member of Collingwood?

Whats that got to do with this topic pray tell???

 

[Papa G]

Whats that got to do with this topic pray tell???

Well if you, and thousands and thousands of other Tasmanian's stopped financially supporting Victorian clubs they might take notice. If the Tasmanian government/taxpayer stopped financially supporting 2 Victorian clubs, the AFL might take notice. If you all turned off your televisions and cut off your foxtel subscriptions, they might take notice. If you were all fair dinkum about getting your own team, this is what you neeed to do. As said by many others, the net gain in footy fans of having a Tasmanian team is negligable, but the possible net loss is far far greater. Of course this would be extremely difficult to engineer, almost impossible, but if you want something bad enough.....

 

[Super sub]

Well if you, and thousands and thousands of other Tasmanian's stopped financially supporting Victorian clubs they might take notice. If the Tasmanian government/taxpayer stopped financially supporting 2 Victorian clubs, the AFL might take notice. If you all turned off your televisions and cut off your foxtel subscriptions, they might take notice. If you were all fair dinkum about getting your own team, this is what you neeed to do. As said by many others, the net gain in footy fans of having a Tasmanian team is negligable, but the possible net loss is far far greater. Of course this would be extremely difficult to engineer, almost impossible, but if you want something bad enough.....

Don't need to turn off fox that would have a negative effect. Just need the government to come out and say that the stadium deals and the government sponsorship is only available to a Tasmanian team. Hawthorn and north would be out of there in a flash. They are not there for tassie they are only there for the dollars.

The afl would be very concerned about the loss of revenue. If tasmanians continued to watch on fox it would show that they still had the connection with the afl.

But for tassie to get a team it would mean a Melbourne team would have to go. And we all know the afl doesn't have the stomach.

 

[Verdun]

Good post and mostly on the money. Unlike your detractors

Thanks sherrinorburley

 

[madmug]

Well if you, and thousands and thousands of other Tasmanian's stopped financially supporting Victorian clubs they might take notice. If the Tasmanian government/taxpayer stopped financially supporting 2 Victorian clubs, the AFL might take notice. If you all turned off your televisions and cut off your foxtel subscriptions, they might take notice. If you were all fair dinkum about getting your own team, this is what you neeed to do. As said by many others, the net gain in footy fans of having a Tasmanian team is negligable, but the possible net loss is far far greater. Of course this would be extremely difficult to engineer, almost impossible, but if you want something bad enough.....

Whether Tassie get a team or not will have SFA to do with Victorian clubs. Its all to do with what the AFL want. Just ask Fitzroy

 

[Oakland Raider]

Whether Tassie get a team or not will have SFA to do with Victorian clubs. Its all to do with what the AFL want. Just ask Fitzroy

Indeed.

When NM knocked back the BS offer to relocate to the GC they have been on a mission that has hurt Tasmania's overdue bid.
Dictators are like a woman scorned.

 

[Rob]

Whether Tassie get a team or not will have SFA to do with Victorian clubs. Its all to do with what the AFL want. Just ask Fitzroy

The AFL want supporters. If Tasmanians already support a team, how do the AFL benefit with a new one? That's just going to split the current supporter base.

You might not think that's fair, but that's reality. Consequently it has everything to do with Victorian clubs given that's where the current loyalties of most of the Tasmanian football community lie. The more you support other clubs the less likely a Tassie team is.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well if you, and thousands and thousands of other Tasmanian's stopped financially supporting Victorian clubs they might take notice. If the Tasmanian government/taxpayer stopped financially supporting 2 Victorian clubs, the AFL might take notice. If you all turned off your televisions and cut off your foxtel subscriptions, they might take notice. If you were all fair dinkum about getting your own team, this is what you neeed to do. As said by many others, the net gain in footy fans of having a Tasmanian team is negligable, but the possible net loss is far far greater. Of course this would be extremely difficult to engineer, almost impossible, but if you want something bad enough.....

For all of Hawthorns work, I think the government will start putting its foot down after this deal concludes. That said, if its raking in tourists and cash for the local economy its quite possible they keep going too.

 

[chesson]

The AFL want supporters. If Tasmanians already support a team, how do the AFL benefit with a new one? That's just going to split the current supporter base.

You mean like when the dockers joined the AFL and split all the eagles fans?

Silly argument.

 

[blaze036]

You mean like when the dockers joined the AFL and split all the eagles fans?

Silly argument.

WA wasnt dominated by AFL like Tasmania is and there was a big chance to grab more fans and generate more interest, most unlike Tasmania.

Silly point.

 

[Verdun]

You mean like when the dockers joined the AFL and split all the eagles fans?

Silly argument.

The fact that Tasmania is already a football state should exlude it from the AFL is a silly argument. I acknowledge that there are a lot of supporters of AFL clubs in Tasmania; I am sure that once a team from here was playing in the AFL this would change.

As stated earlier Tasmania can sustain a club and its supporters and followers want equity.


Just because the AFL want something does not mean it is right; I also agree that they are risking alienating Tas full stop.

They are doing very well financially out of Tas, close to 80% percent of the corporate seats have already sold for the North games here next year thus highlighting that Tas will sustain a club that is financially struggling.

Lets have a look at what is happening in GWS in 5-10 years not a lot I expect with millions being ploughed in to the place when it would only take a few years for a club to be sustainable in Tasmania for not a small amount of the outlay.

 

[madmug]

WA wasnt dominated by AFL like Tasmania is and there was a big chance to grab more fans and generate more interest, most unlike Tasmania.

Silly point.

Again the stupid argument that because we love the game we cant have our own team. How utterly arrogant, rude, stupid & whatever else you want to call it, oh, Victorian self interest.

 

[blaze036]

Again the stupid argument that because we love the game we cant have our own team. How utterly arrogant, rude, stupid & whatever else you want to call it, oh, Victorian self interest.

Noone at all is arguing because you love the game u cant have ur own team...where on earth did u pluck that from lol.

Go read over the pages, Tasmanians continually attack Victorians not the other way around. You cant handle me putting facts and my point of view on them on the table obviously, how rude and stupid and w/e else of u.

 

[Books]

What hard work would that be?

Really?

According to the Tasmanian government, who should know about such things, Hawthorn bring tourists into their state. We improve their economy. We do community camps. We make a contribution.

Consider this - the Tasmanian government was keen to continue the sponsorship deal with Hawthorn. Do you think this was:
A - Because the government ministers all barrack for Hawthorn so they risked their political careers on their own footy preferences
B - They wanted to annoy the AFL (knowing the AFL would are very thin-skinned and would plan revenge)
or
C - Becaue the state of Tasmania benefits from the sponsorship deal with Hawthorn.

Not sure about you, but I suspect C is the correct answer. And why is that? It is because the HFC have worked hard to make it a mutually beneficial deal.

 

[madmug]

Noone at all is arguing because you love the game u cant have ur own team...where on earth did u pluck that from lol.

Go read over the pages, Tasmanians continually attack Victorians not the other way around. You cant handle me putting facts and my point of view on them on the table obviously, how rude and stupid and w/e else of u.

What facts have you ever offered.? Point of view I have seen lots of. Most of it uninformed garbage of what Tasmania can or cant do, should or shouldnt do. Even the stuff like just be 'grateful' that you get to pay through the nose for two rentaclubs that were nearly financially stuffed.

Also read your own post from 0134 this morning. You basically say WA wasnt as supportive of AFL as Tasmania thus somehow the AFL would pick up more supporters 'unlike Tasmania'

WTF is that supposed to mean??????

 

[sherb]

Really?

According to the Tasmanian government, who should know about such things, Hawthorn bring tourists into their state. We improve their economy. We do community camps. We make a contribution.

Consider this - the Tasmanian government was keen to continue the sponsorship deal with Hawthorn. Do you think this was:
A - Because the government ministers all barrack for Hawthorn so they risked their political careers on their own footy preferences
B - They wanted to annoy the AFL (knowing the AFL would are very thin-skinned and would plan revenge)
or
C - Becaue the state of Tasmania benefits from the sponsorship deal with Hawthorn.

Not sure about you, but I suspect C is the correct answer. And why is that? It is because the HFC have worked hard to make it a mutually beneficial deal.

You play a few games in Tassie, do community camps there (all clubs do those by the way), do general promotion and so forth.

And you are paid damn well to do so. It is the least you could do given what you are making out of the deal.

It's not "hard work", it is giving a sponsor value for his investment. All clubs do that with their sponsors in various ways.

And it's hardly a surprise that Tassie benefits out of the deal. That's why sponsors put their money into a club in the first place.

 

[Rob]

You mean like when the dockers joined the AFL and split all the eagles fans?

Silly argument.

Eagles membership went up in 95, and in any case Perth is over 3 times bigger than the entire state of Tasmania.

Silly comparison.

 

[madmug]

Really?

According to the Tasmanian government, who should know about such things, Hawthorn bring tourists into their state. We improve their economy. We do community camps. We make a contribution.

Consider this - the Tasmanian government was keen to continue the sponsorship deal with Hawthorn. Do you think this was:
A - Because the government ministers all barrack for Hawthorn so they risked their political careers on their own footy preferences
B - They wanted to annoy the AFL (knowing the AFL would are very thin-skinned and would plan revenge)
or
C - Becaue the state of Tasmania benefits from the sponsorship deal with Hawthorn.

Not sure about you, but I suspect C is the correct answer. And why is that? It is because the HFC have worked hard to make it a mutually beneficial deal.

Oh dear
The whole thing came about because the marginal Northern political seat of Bass was up for bribing by political parties. Hence the ridiculously inflated deal Hawthorn ended up with.
When it comes to with benefits that might accrue, you can believe the spin if you like. Im sure some benefit arises, but the cost is excessive, prohibitive in fact given the state of out pathetic govenment.