Thanks Denis...Thanks a lot...

[moomba]

Originally posted by Mudholian
Looks like it wasn't about money but about time.

I read something (or heard something on the radio/TV) earlier today (or yesterday) where Denis had told the club that Carlton were offering more money than the Roos. I'd say money was a big factor, but probably not the only factor.

Moomba

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by moomba


No.

While personally I would still follow a relocated Kangaroos (preferably in Canberra instead of Sydney) it would destroy a huge percentage of the supporters. I know too many South Melbourne supporters who don't follow football any more to want to see this happen again.

Moomba

What if we up the stakes and assume that tha Kangas will almost definately not survive.

Relocate or go bust?

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Relocate or go bust?

Personally I'd relocate, but I know plenty of Roos who wouldn't follow a relocated team. Likewise I know a few Roos that would accept a merger, to me that would cease my involvement in AFL footy.

Moomba

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by moomba


I read something (or heard something on the radio/TV) earlier today (or yesterday) where Denis had told the club that Carlton were offering more money than the Roos. I'd say money was a big factor, but probably not the only factor.

I just reckon Denis hit the wall with us. There was the Carey saga, then the political battle against Easy, then the paycut, then the AFL accountants going through our books, the restrictions on the salary cap - all the crap that's gone on with the club, who can blame him for taking the money and a smoother ride with Carlton? Pagan has given his all for the Roos - maybe he knew that he just couldn't give anymore.

There will be plenty of Roos fans who are bitter about him leaving - just as some Eagles fans were bitter about Malthouse leaving and so were some Crows fans were when Blight left. You can hardly blame the Roos fans - this is our first evening when we know that Pagan isn't our coach. But Pagan, like Malthouse and Blight, are dual premiership coaches, and in time, the fans will look back and appreciate what they did achieve for their clubs. But for the time being, you can hardly blame Roos fans for wanting to vent their spleens.

I'm slightly p*ssed off at Pagan leaving, but it makes sense with the history of the Roos. We always go through shake ups and changes, we get kicked in the teeth, but we always get through.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by hurricane

Well, I think you've answered your own question there.

No I didn't. I was referring to the supporter base in Melbourne - this will never change. However, there is a market in Sydney of 4.5m people with only one team to compete with.

Over 20,000 Melbourne based financial members is a large population to turn your back on, not to mention the unfianancial barrackers.

This would be the biggest hurdle. But when it comes to survive or bust, the head must rule the heart.

The may be a lot of Souths supporter who were lost, but I think most people would have to agree that the move to Sydney was good for the club. Better Swans in Sydney than no Swans at all.

Do you think that this kind of supporter base is going to turn up in Sydney overnight?

Nope. I did infer a period of 15/20 years. Fifteen to twenty years is a short time in when you look at the big picture. Like I said, in 20 years time the kangas will still be struggling if they stay in Melbourne. They need to take a step backwards in order to take two steps forward.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
If the Kangas were guaranteed a strong, solid, and consistent supporter base within 20 years of moving to Sydney, would you be happy for your team to leave Melbourne?

No. Footy is about seeing your team play right there in front of you....not seeing them on a TV screen. I'm pretty certain that I would lose my passion if the Roos reclocated to Sydney.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by moomba


Personally I'd relocate, but I know plenty of Roos who wouldn't follow a relocated team. Likewise I know a few Roos that would accept a merger, to me that would cease my involvement in AFL footy.

Moomba

I would prefer relocate (given the circumstances). Merger aren't mergers, they are take overs. Most Swans supporters recognise their (South's) history. I'm not sure it is the same with Brisbane.

Canberra would be good, but I don't think a club will survive in Canberra. I went to the round 22 game where there were 11,600 people. An awful lot of these were people who travelled from Sydney and Melbourne - I was checking number plates as I was walking to the ground.

Sydney has 4.5m people and it would be near impossible not to build a membership base of 25-30k over a 15/20 year period. Especially since the recent TV deal - AFL has been getting so much more coverage now. Not just games, but there are plenty of ads and ch10 are running goal and mark of the year comps.

 

[sandeano]

I know people mean well, but when rival supporters start expressing their sympathy towards the Roos' plight then you might as well hop on the express train to bust-ville. Same thing happened with Fitzroy, they became everyone's second team but not to the point of people actually becoming actual SUPPORTERS, let alone kicking in the bucks.

North have hardly ever been known for being a "Jolly good show chaps, better luck next time" sort of team and certainly their fans have not had that quality. You need to keep the opposition teams and their supporters hating you, whether you are winning or losing. Strangely enough, that seems to breed a better likelihood of benevolence from the money people, whether friends or foe.

So be pro-active. Come out swinging and start kicking against the pricks.

Carey left. You moved on.

Pagan's gone. Say "thanks Dennis, who's next"?

If you are gonna go out, be like the blokes at the end of "The Wild Bunch", with machine guns blazing.

 

[mighty mick]

Originally posted by gPhonque


No - it would take somebody who wasn't around in the 80's to think otherwise.

try 60s

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by sandeano
North have hardly ever been known for being a "Jolly good show chaps, better luck next time" sort of team and certainly their fans have not had that quality. You need to keep the opposition teams and their supporters hating you, whether you are winning or losing. Strangely enough, that seems to breed a better likelihood of benevolence from the money people, whether friends or foe.

So be pro-active. Come out swinging and start kicking against the pricks.

Damn right Sandeano. Now go and get f*cked you $#$*!)!_!@*!&!($!(!*)!$!@#.

Please note --------------->

 

[sandeano]

Originally posted by Shinboners


Damn right Sandeano. Now go and get f*cked you $#$*!)!_!@*!&!($!(!*)!$!@#.

Please note --------------->

Struth...you sound just like my wife....but she never adds the smilie at the end.

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by mighty mick


try 60s

You're just arguing for the sake of it now.

Had Pagan not been there in the 80's, you'd probably still only have 2 flags.

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Most Swans supporters recognise their (South's) history.

I wonder how many South supporters are still Swans supporters, and how many of them feel the same passion for Sydney as they had for South Melbourne.

Moomba

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by sandeano


Struth...you sound just like my wife....but she never adds the smilie at the end.

Better check the bottom of her drawer to make sure that she isn't hiding a North scarf from you.

 

[mighty mick]

Originally posted by gPhonque


You're just arguing for the sake of it now.

Had Pagan not been there in the 80's, you'd probably still only have 2 flags.

true

on both accounts

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Shinboners


No. Footy is about seeing your team play right there in front of you....not seeing them on a TV screen. I'm pretty certain that I would lose my passion if the Roos reclocated to Sydney.

I certainly understand where you're coming from, I'm just not sure about the people who run the club. It would have been a hard decision, but that was the club's best bet at ongoing survival. They would still play approx 8 games in Melbourne every year.

I think it's inevitable that at some point something will have to give. Jackson has guaranteed 16 clubs until <fill in blank here>. This was more of a consolidation move. The game has been evolving and moving very quickly over the last 10-15 years. I think it was a case of stopping for a while, making sure everything is running smooth, and then moving on and making the more difficult changes.

The next big issue for the AFL is probably the hardest one they will have to deal with - deciding what to about the clubs who continuously lose money. These people who make these decisions don't have attachments to the Roos and the Bulldogs like their supporters - they are looking at the big picture and what is better for the AFL as a whole, rather than 30,000 odd supporters.

Something will have to give, whether it be relocation, merger, or fold. I think the Kangas should have been more proactive about their survival, rather than being reactive.

 

[sandeano]

Originally posted by Shinboners


Better check the bottom of her drawer to make sure that she isn't hiding a North scarf from you.

She works just off Arden Street and does a couple of laps of the oval every lunchtime for exercise.

I find it hard enough living with that fact. I was thinking of getting one of those decontamination units that they use in nuclear power plants set up outside our front door for when she comes home each night

 

[mighty mick]

about people feeling sorry for the roos this yr i think that the players and most supporters have expressed thier being fed up with being patronized as the poor old kangaroos

even archer interviewed on the day of the final said that the only way the team was gonna get this monkey off thier back was by winning.

we will fight on but this patronising crap from journos who are trying to push us down the fitzroy/ swans path will not get thier way,

and i would not follow a merged or moved team, i would end up watching game of the day

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by moomba


I wonder how many South supporters are still Swans supporters, and how many of them feel the same passion for Sydney as they had for South Melbourne.

Moomba

Apparently Sydney have a pretty decent Melbourne supporter base. They would have lost a few completely, and many supporters wouldn't have the same passion, some would, and they gained a heap of supporters, and the club is alive and well today.

Not the perfect scenario, but probably salvaged the club in the best way it could.

The big boys who make the decisions look at the big picture - they would see it as a profit to lose (say 10k fans) and pick up an extra 30k fans (from Sydney).

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
I certainly understand where you're coming from, I'm just not sure about the people who run the club. It would have been a hard decision, but that was the club's best bet at ongoing survival. They would still play approx 8 games in Melbourne every year.

8 games a year will ensure that I will lose my bond not only with the club, but also the other Roos fans that I've met and become friends with over the years. You gotta remember - footy isn't only about the club, it's about the people you meet who share that love of the club.

I think it's inevitable that at some point something will have to give. Jackson has guaranteed 16 clubs until <fill in blank here>. This was more of a consolidation move. The game has been evolving and moving very quickly over the last 10-15 years. I think it was a case of stopping for a while, making sure everything is running smooth, and then moving on and making the more difficult changes.

The time of reckoning will come when the next TV deal comes up. There simply won't be as much money as the last deal, so something will have to give. Either the players give up their money or a club or four will disappear - and I reckon it'll be the latter.

The next big issue for the AFL is probably the hardest one they will have to deal with - deciding what to about the clubs who continuously lose money. These people who make these decisions don't have attachments to the Roos and the Bulldogs like their supporters - they are looking at the big picture and what is better for the AFL as a whole, rather than 30,000 odd supporters.

The AFL is already doing something about it with their accountants going through the books of the Dogs and the Roos. The importance of the Roos decision to let Pagan go cannot be underestimated - it showed that they will try and keep costs under control. Hopefully we can stem the losses until the Docklands social club project gets up and running.

Something will have to give, whether it be relocation, merger, or fold. I think the Kangas should have been more proactive about their survival, rather than being reactive.

If the worst happens, my preference would be a merger with the Bulldogs rather than relocation interstate.

 

[davers11]

i bet you mugs would be happy if an ex-kanga took over, someone who is an absolute genius, someone by the name of malcolm blight for instance

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by davers11
i bet you mugs would be happy if an ex-kanga took over, someone who is an absolute genius, someone by the name of malcolm blight for instance

ask st k about that

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
You guys are fcuked. There's a bit more to it than the extra 100k or whatever it is.

Pagan is a career coach. One of the best. His reputation hangs solely on his coaching record. If he was to stay at the Kangaroos, he would have been disadvantaged more so than if he were at another club. Apparently, the AFL have ordered the Kangaroos to only spend about 92.5% of their salary cap. Sentimant aside, why would he coach at a club where he wouldn't be able to get the quality of players that he would be able to at another club?

He gave you more than 10 years and 2 flags, what more do you want? Do you want him to put his professional reputation on the line for just for the benefit of the supporters?

I suggest you STFU, and give the guy the respect and applause that he deserves.

On a similar Note, malcom Blight Moved to Adelaide to Coach the Crows for two very basic reasons..

1.Cash

2. Playing list.

As soon as the playing list was about to fall below Malcoms standard....He left

reasons?...

1. you cant bolster the list to your requirements anymore

2. He is a career coach.

Therefore staying at Adelaide would have seen the downslide that was inevitable...i.e. nothing less than another premiership would have done.


So he left.

Pagan has played the loyal good guy for long enough.He has now raised himself into another Echelon.....Career coach.

Let North get another loyal Good guy.

 

[Danny Chook Fan Club]

Great post original post Yianni - I concur thoroughly.

 

[Dont think Bif]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
I understood it was the extra roles he had to play and concern over job security that was a motivating factor?

If job security was an issue, why did he go to Carlton?