The A-League - how big can it get?

[NUFC Tiger]

Fury is dumb. Small markets can never make the money to be anything but fleetingly secure. The Mariners are hugely successful on-field but perennially shaky off it. Even North Sydney would be smarter than, basically, a country town with no industry.

The A-League and its supporters should also realise there's no shame in the current crowds. Some countries in Europe have the single sport and can barely crack 5,000 on average. The AFL is extremely unique in its massive crowds. You can't expect a marginalised sport to enjoy anything resembling a freak industry like Aussie Rules.

I don't necessarily agree that the Fury are dumb for wanting to be in the national comp again.

Granted they are a small, regional boutique club along with the likes of CCM and the Jets (i.e teams not based in major cities). I think for the good of the game, it's important for football to have a presence in as many regions across the country as possible.

First and foremost, the club's need to be viable and stable and able to exist without constant propping up but even if some of those regional clubs never get the crowds/fanbase that Victory, Sydney, WSW etc can get, as long as they engage the local community and provide an avenue to grow interest in the game in those areas, that should be what it's all about IMO. The only way to make the league stronger and more popular in wider society is to expand the exposure the competition has. The more expansion, the better (just as long as they can be self sustainable clubs in the long term).

 

[Silent Alarm]

I don't necessarily agree that the Fury are dumb for wanting to be in the national comp again.

Granted they are a small, regional boutique club along with the likes of CCM and the Jets (i.e teams not based in major cities). I think for the good of the game, it's important for football to have a presence in as many regions across the country as possible.

First and foremost, the club's need to be viable and stable and able to exist without constant propping up but even if some of those regional clubs never get the crowds/fanbase that Victory, Sydney, WSW etc can get, as long as they engage the local community and provide an avenue to grow interest in the game in those areas, that should be what it's all about IMO. The only way to make the league stronger and more popular in wider society is to expand the exposure the competition has. The more expansion, the better (just as long as they can be self sustainable clubs in the long term).

Nah I agree. The soccer landscape can exist with clubs getting even 5,000 weekly. The aesthetics of a full ground is just a superfluous detail that too many people care about. It's about sustainability.

But I just don't think Townsville is sustainable. It never got close to it, even with a good marquee. You can say they had poor results, but you cannot bank on a club being successful. That's a flawed model. And what about the Mariners? They sell Rogic, Amini, all these good little products and make some cash. Then they consistently play finals, Grand Finals, and win titles. But they still languish in this nowhere land economically.

It's very, very hard for population centres of less than about 500,000 to be successful. Community pride gets you a higher percentage of attendees, but a more casual fanbase in a larger city will always make a club more sustainable.

If we want to expand, I'd probably be throwing in Wollongong next. No idea who else. There aren't any hugely pressing candidates, unlike Western Sydney. Hopefully the NYL becomes a vessel for budding clubs – a bit like the AFL way of giving new franchises a start in the VFL and their own state leagues. That way you can build excitement, build a cultural rapport, and keep costs no higher than that of a local side. I reckon that's the way to go. Which, props to the Fury, is how they are doing it.

 

[Colonial]

Im very tired of reading statements of one code competing against another. I follow all four (spending money on each) and Im just as passionate about My Sky Blues as I am about the Giants and Waratahs, and a little bit for my poor old Tiges (damn NRL commission), and anything with Australia written on it. All codes can survive and be successful. As soon as the media get it and some fans then the better we will be. How can more sport be bad?

 

[Shoey]

bigger now that Man City have bought Melbourne Heart...

 

[Beetlebum]

If this is managed properly the league has the potential to become bigger than Clive Palmer's gut.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Im very tired of reading statements of one code competing against another. I follow all four (spending money on each) and Im just as passionate about My Sky Blues as I am about the Giants and Waratahs, and a little bit for my poor old Tiges (damn NRL commission), and anything with Australia written on it. All codes can survive and be successful. As soon as the media get it and some fans then the better we will be. How can more sport be bad?

Hmm. I'm not entirely sure. I mean people can't afford to continuously go to events. People don't have the time or funds to even semi-regularly attend lots of sports. Their preference will lie for plenty of reasons, all their mates are going or the ground's close or their family follows the team, and most of those reasons conspire against the A-League.

The MLS can have so many teams because there are more people to bankroll sides, more cities with millions of people...

I don't really see the A-League ever going gangbusters, but people need to realise it doesn't have to. Joe Marston, Craig Johnston, Ned Zelic, Mark Viduka... these guys came out of little leagues no one cared about with resources smaller than even Melbourne Heart's wheelie bins and crowds comparable only to the old Gold Coast United. Big memberships and big crowds do not translate to the general success of the players we produce.

The competition is going alright at the moment. Clubs aren't making huge money but crowds are respectable; the standard's gone down but a few good players are coming through. Don't expand yet. Keep it cool. It'll be what it'll be.

 

[GreatBradScott]

bigger now that Man City have bought Melbourne Heart...

And the rumored new owners of the WSW being loaded too, the sky is the limit.

 

[Munga]

I'm starting to think these O/S buyers see the A-League as an easy foot in to Asia.
We're very competitive with little resources and will never have a loser mentality.
With a little investment they might see winning the league and continual appearances in Asia as a given. Just a thought.
It's all about money, it always is. And I can't see where the big bucks would come from except major FTA or Asia.

 

[giggler99]

I'm starting to think these O/S buyers see the A-League as an easy foot in to Asia.
We're very competitive with little resources and will never have a loser mentality.
With a little investment they might see winning the league and continual appearances in Asia as a given. Just a thought.
It's all about money, it always is. And I can't see where the big bucks would come from except major FTA or Asia.

Yeah that's the thing right it's all about money and the fans and the traditions are forgotten. look what the EPL has turned in to a competition that's sold its soul all it is now is brand exposer and TV $$$ everything else including the fans is secondary. I don't want our comp to turn in to that I'll rather have our clubs grow organically and build there own histories and identities then be used by EPL clubs to promote there brand in to Asia. Our clubs should aim to grow there own brand to compete within Asia, that should be the aim not to be play toys for some rich oil sheiks.

 

[Scotland]

A-League clubs are limited to squads of 20-26. The salary cap is $2.5m excluding marquee signings.

It's not like Man City are going to come in and buy Broich, Berisha, Del Piero etc. and turn Heart into a superpower because they can't. The FFA aren't going to sacrifice the integrity of the competition because the competition isn't strong enough to to get by without equalisation measures being in place.

 

[Silent Alarm]

A-League clubs are limited to squads of 20-26. The salary cap is $2.5m excluding marquee signings.

It's not like Man City are going to come in and buy Broich, Berisha, Del Piero etc. and turn Heart into a superpower because they can't. The FFA aren't going to sacrifice the integrity of the competition because the competition isn't strong enough to to get by without equalisation measures being in place.

The FFA aren't as bad as FIFA or even the AFL, but they're not all about integrity either. Sydney FC are the favourites of that federation. Remember when they brought in all those players and still, purportedly, were under the salary cap? Nick Carle, Jason Culina, Lucas Neill and all these other Socceroos demanding a decent payday.

They don't care about the purity of clubs or their competition. If they did, they'd have told Manchester City 'no.'

 

[Scotland]

City's wage bill last year was over GBP200m. Clubs like Swansea and Norwich pay more like GBP30-40m. That's a multiplier of 5x - at least. 30-40m is an average transfer fee for a club like City.

Norwich having zero chance of ever winning the EPL and being crunched 7-0 when they trek to the Etihad means squat because the TV revenue that comes in from City having Toure, Aguero etc., United having RVP, Rooney etc. is enough to bankroll the competition and there are minnow clubs lining up to take Norwich's spot in the Championship.

Australia is a different ball game. The A-League has been going since 2005 and we've already seen the NZ Knights, GC United and NQ Fury come and go. The biggest 'brands' are arguably Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC and both are comparative minnows in the Australian sporting market.

If I was City I'd want to buy up the best half dozen or more players in the A-League to build a squad that will win the league, then stockpile as many gun U/23s as possible. The FFA just won't allow it. A powerhouse Heart at the expense of the other clubs is bad for the league.

 

[Shoey]

Sydney FC knocked back the Man City offer last year
"hahahaha no thanks sheikh, we dont want your worldwide scouting network, or your infinite money. We want to keep our name/badge"

idiots

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Sydney FC knocked back the Man City offer last year
"hahahaha no thanks sheikh, we dont want your worldwide scouting network, or your infinite money. We want to keep our name/badge"

idiots

All they would of have to have done is change their name from Sydney FC to Sydney City FC. Idiots indeed.

 

[Shoey]

All they would of have to have done is change their name from Sydney FC to Sydney City FC. Idiots indeed.

that name would have been better anyway

 

[Hoops]

I think it'll struggle to compete with AFL/rugby in their home states, but I can see it easily being the no 2 sport in most cities. A huge amount of people now follow the Prem and the Socceroos compared to about a decade ago, its all about transitioning that interest to a local level.

"no 2 sport in most cities" Cricket anyone?

 

[Colonial]

The FFA aren't as bad as FIFA or even the AFL, but they're not all about integrity either. Sydney FC are the favourites of that federation. Remember when they brought in all those players and still, purportedly, were under the salary cap? Nick Carle, Jason Culina, Lucas Neill and all these other Socceroos demanding a decent payday.

They don't care about the purity of clubs or their competition. If they did, they'd have told Manchester City 'no.'

Oh please, we are well and truly overtaken by their lovechild the wonderboys. As for the players you mentioned. Carle was Aust Marque, Culina was just off from over a year being injured, lucas Neill couldnt get a gig anywhere else (and it was for guest appearances) sooooo no we were well and truly under the cap.

 

[Redalert]

"no 2 sport in most cities" Cricket anyone?

It's all very seasonal with both sports. When the Ashes and Australia are doing well everyone's a cricket fan, but in between its pretty dead. Similar with World Cup qualifiers and the 2014 World Cup, I can guarantee people will start caring when Australia and the big teams play.

 

[Colonial]

"no 2 sport in most cities" Cricket anyone?

Only when we play England or Sth Africa, the rest of the time the crowds are pretty poor (though Twenty20 big bash is going great guns)

 

[Ross Prunster]

For more knowledgable heads than mine, but is Perth a big problem with Wildcats crowds now exceeding Glory attendances?

 

[jatz14]

For more knowledgable heads than mine, but is Perth a big problem with Wildcats crowds now exceeding Glory attendances?

Wildcats are a very good team, Glory less so. However, it costs a lot more for a family to go to the Wildcats than the Glory. Effectively the Glory are undercutting wildcats on price, and still being outsold.

However it could change quickly if Wildcats are not a top team, of Glory become one.

 

[Freomaniac]

Football has overtaken Rugby union in popularity a while ago.

The round ball game has become the third biggest footy code overall in Australia, behind Aussie rules and Rugby league. I can't speak for the other states, but it is possible for the A-League to become the second most popular footy code in each state, behind the AFL in the AFL states and the NRL in the NRL states (but probably still third overall). The standard of the comp is always improving.

However the FFA need to stop making stupid decisions, they shouldn't expand teams just to get rid of them 2/3 years later. You won't see the AFL get rid of GWS no matter how bad they are because they know that if they persist long enough it will pay off. Fury and GCU should've been given a proper opportunity to prove themselves. NQF had decent crowds and GCU would've been okay if Clive Palmer wasn't running the club (they had okay crowds to begin with).

If it was up to me, I'd bring back NQF and GCU, then give Canberra (Capitals) and Wollongong (Wolves) a team, making it 14 teams all up, have 26 games (each teams plays each team home and away) and consolidate. I'd have a 23 week normal season (with some mid-week games during the summer holidays) and three week finals with the current final six format, meaning the Grand Final returns to March and doesn't overlap with the AFL/NRL season too much. I'd also bring in an FFA cup as well.

Ideally we'd have 2.5 ACL spots, I know they have a rule that only one spot could go to "cup winners", but ideally the ACL qualifiers will be league winners (top of the ladder in normal season), Grand Final winners and the half spot going to the FFA cup winners. If a team wins 2 out of the 3 trophies on offer the ACL spot should go to the second placed team in the league and if a team wins all three trophies on offer, then the half spot should go to the third placed league team.

I guess you didnt know the whole situation....

In 2009-10 when GCU and NQ fury came in, the TV rights was worth 17 million a year from 2006-2013. The Salary cap was around 2.3 million with 10 teams. So 17 million in tv rights with 23 million on cap money. So thats 6 million that was needed. It meant the A-league was unsustainable at the time.

Now the TV deal is worth 40 million a year (well 37 million since 3 mil is spent on advertising). Oh and the salary cap is 2.5 million. So now there is 37 million a year in TV money and 25 million in total for all 10 sides. So that means theres 12 million left over, which is more likely to be used to bail out the weaker clubs. So the chances of Expansion from now until the last year of the tv deal, which is 2016-17, is slim.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

Article from Michael Lynch about A-League youngsters 'getting it easy'. Interesting read.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/socc...ions-or-make-hard-choices-20140204-31zfc.html

 

[Silent Alarm]

Article from Michael Lynch about A-League youngsters 'getting it easy'. Interesting read.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/socc...ions-or-make-hard-choices-20140204-31zfc.html

I always thought the entitlement was "I deserve to play overseas and I'll go when I can" which can result in premature departures, skewed development, and accepting the wrong offer because it's the first offer. Not that I blame them – I'd give up any club for any side in Europe purely because it could never come again and playing in Europe is something you can always look back on – and your old A-League side will probably take you back for six months if you fail.

Interesting notion though. When Ange said it, it did make sense. But what's the answer? Relegation will kill professionalism and franchises and thus the league.

 

[Munga]

Does the US league have relegation?