Kurve
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Current The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland
BFew
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Soft shoe shuffle between QLD Health Minister and the AG.
Swapsies.
With the AG position still involved in things related to the ongoing fallout from the DNA disaster.
www.abc.net.au
'The lab, now overseen by Linzi Wilson-Wilde, is retrospectively reviewing thousands of sexual assault cases dating back to 2008 “to determine which should be subject to retesting or re-analysis”.
Deputy Chief Magistrate Anthony Gett this week told a court there were already“10,000 cases in backlog for DNA testing”.
Ms D’Ath said the backlog related to “business-as-usual cases”, not historic samples being re-examined after the inquiry.
“We do have a backlog in relation to just the normal evidence that comes to the doors of forensic services every week,” she said.
“That is due to a range of reasons, including a shortage of the scientists, but also because we did lose staff through the commission of inquiry, and we have to rebuild our processes. We also had to reset how we test.”'
'D’Ath to go: Premier’s cabinet reshuffle to send shockwaves through Labor'
'May 16, 2023 - 10:37PM'
'It is understood Ms Palaszczuk has told Yvette D’Ath she will be moved from the health portfolio, with the expectation the minister will return to her previous frontbench role as attorney-general.
The Courier-Mail understands current A-G Shannon Fentiman will be sworn in as the new health minister.
Pressure on Ms D’Ath has mounted in recent months following repeated scandals within the portfolio, including ambulance ramping, the DNA bungle, and the maternity crisis in Central Queensland.'
Swapsies.
With the AG position still involved in things related to the ongoing fallout from the DNA disaster.
Queensland health minister admits backlog of 10,000 cases awaiting DNA testing, with retesting adding to 'incredible pressure'
With more than 10,000 cases awaiting DNA testing and a global shortage of forensics staff, Queensland labs are under "incredible pressure".
www.abc.net.au
'Queensland dealing with DNA testing backlog of more than 10,000 cases'
'updated 4h ago''The lab, now overseen by Linzi Wilson-Wilde, is retrospectively reviewing thousands of sexual assault cases dating back to 2008 “to determine which should be subject to retesting or re-analysis”.
Deputy Chief Magistrate Anthony Gett this week told a court there were already“10,000 cases in backlog for DNA testing”.
Ms D’Ath said the backlog related to “business-as-usual cases”, not historic samples being re-examined after the inquiry.
“We do have a backlog in relation to just the normal evidence that comes to the doors of forensic services every week,” she said.
“That is due to a range of reasons, including a shortage of the scientists, but also because we did lose staff through the commission of inquiry, and we have to rebuild our processes. We also had to reset how we test.”'
'D’Ath to go: Premier’s cabinet reshuffle to send shockwaves through Labor'
'May 16, 2023 - 10:37PM'
'It is understood Ms Palaszczuk has told Yvette D’Ath she will be moved from the health portfolio, with the expectation the minister will return to her previous frontbench role as attorney-general.
The Courier-Mail understands current A-G Shannon Fentiman will be sworn in as the new health minister.
Pressure on Ms D’Ath has mounted in recent months following repeated scandals within the portfolio, including ambulance ramping, the DNA bungle, and the maternity crisis in Central Queensland.'
BFew
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Editorial in yesterday's 'The Australian' questioning why Cathie Allen is the only one of the 3 main players from the QLD Health DNA lab disaster still there (albeit suspended without pay).
I wonder how big a payout Howes and Brisotto got?
Maybe payout negotiations with Cathie Allen haven't finished yet.
... Sources told The Australian Mr Howes and Ms Brisotto left Queensland Health in recent weeks, but Ms Allen was still employed, suspended without pay.
Health Minister Yvette D’Ath said she had been advised by her department not to “go into the circumstances surrounding their release … but I can confirm they are no longer employees of forensic services”
...
“One is still under suspension,” she said.
...
I wonder how big a payout Howes and Brisotto got?
Maybe payout negotiations with Cathie Allen haven't finished yet.
'Disgraced DNA boss Cathie Allen clinging on to job'
'10:00AM MAY 17, 2023'... Sources told The Australian Mr Howes and Ms Brisotto left Queensland Health in recent weeks, but Ms Allen was still employed, suspended without pay.
Health Minister Yvette D’Ath said she had been advised by her department not to “go into the circumstances surrounding their release … but I can confirm they are no longer employees of forensic services”
...
“One is still under suspension,” she said.
...
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BFew
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No mention of the level of her payout for being terminated.
'Cathie Allen, managing scientist of the health department’s forensics lab for 15 years, had her employment formally “terminated” on Wednesday afternoon.'
'Cathie Allen: Disgraced DNA boss sacked after damning inquiry'
'7:06PM MAY 24, 2023''Cathie Allen, managing scientist of the health department’s forensics lab for 15 years, had her employment formally “terminated” on Wednesday afternoon.'
You may not get a payout if you have been proven to be serious misconduct. I have heard of cases if there are minor infractions people are encouraged to resign so it isn't taken further.
BFew
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Depends what is in her contract too.
And what clause in her contract they used to terminate her.
And what QLD Government specific codes of conduct and regulation/laws apply in conjunction with all of the above.
Case of teenager accused of murdering Uber driver delayed due to DNA testing backlog
The legal case of an 18-year-old teenager charged with murdering a Fraser Coast Uber driver faces delays of up to six months because of the huge backlog of DNA testing in Queensland.
www.abc.net.au
The backlog for DNA testing is 6 months in Queensland without the Commission of Inquiry. You would think murder investigations would get some priority.
"The legal case of a teenager charged with murdering a Fraser Coast Uber driver faces delays of up to six months because of the huge backlog of DNA testing, a court has heard."
"In May, it was revealed the Queensland government-run DNA testing lab was dealing with a backlog of more than 10,000 business-as-usual cases, in addition to needing to test thousands of historic cases after the Commission of Inquiry."
BFew
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The following news from a few days ago in the Australian newspaper might help explain the DNA testing backlog.
5:57PM MAY 31, 2023'
'
5:57PM MAY 31, 2023'
'
'Should have raised a red flag': Expert slams practices at Queensland's forensics lab over 'poor' DNA results
A commission has heard bloodstains from Shandee Blackburn's murder case gave "really low" DNA results when tested, but nothing was ever done about it.
www.abc.net.au
A few snippets from the article.
"Practices at Queensland's forensics lab were "appalling and reckless", forensic scientist Dr Kirsty Wright told a commission of inquiry today.
...
A new system was found to yield 90 per cent less DNA than the manual method at Queensland's state-run lab
Dr Wright told the commission on Tuesday the scientists at the lab lapsed in their responsibilities.
"To introduce an incomplete method, that was demonstrated to not be performing, and apply those on precious crime scene samples, they must have known that some of those samples would fail," she said.
"As a scientist, I find that completely appalling and reckless."
Dr Wright said data was added to the Project 13 report following the implementation of the automated method, which was "highly unusual" and "really should have raised a red flag".
...
Former scientist at the state-run lab, Iman Muharam, yesterday told the commission staff typically over-validated their work.
"I absolutely reject that evidence," Dr Wright said today.
...
Expert witness Johanna Veth said there were clear failings in the analysis of the Shandee Blackburn murder evidence.
...
Dr Wright said she expected the implementation of the 123 recommendations made in his report would take some time.
"I think it's going to take many, many years to do the technical side of it, but also the cultural side of it as well," she said.
"This isn't something that's going to take two or three years."
Professor Budowle said it required a "herculean effort".
"It's much harder to rebuild a lab that has a culture issue and a quality issue, than to start a lab from scratch," he said.
Queensland's forensics lab failed to pinpoint almost a third of blood samples in 2008, inquiry hears
The inquiry is examining Project 13, a 2008 report by seven scientists recommending the use of an automated DNA testing system, rather than extracting it manually.
www.abc.net.au
A few quotes again. I struggle to believe how long it took to question. These are scientists.
Queensland's forensics lab was failing to pinpoint almost a third of blood samples in 2008 — more than five times the figure from just two years prior, an inquiry has heard.
The inquiry is examining Project 13, a 2008 report by seven scientists recommending the use of an automated DNA testing system, rather than extracting it manually.
This was despite the automated method yielding up to 92 per cent less DNA than the manual option.
---
In 2008-09, following the automated method's introduction, 32 per cent of blood samples from the lab did not yield a DNA profile, up from 6 per cent in 2005-06.
The spike was attributed to a contamination issue which was fixed a short time later.
However, in 2010, 12 per cent of samples were still failing — double what had been seen prior to the automated method being implemented.
---
On Wednesday, senior counsel assisting the Commissioner, Andrew Fox, grilled the current head of the lab, Adjunct Professor Linzi Wilson-Wilde, over language she used in a recent podcast.
In a report to an earlier inquiry into the lab in October last year, prior to her appointment, Adjunct Professor Wilson-Wilde submitted there had been "no significant failings" at the facility.
Mr Fox noted in an interview with journalists in August and September this year, she had said "Project 13 was flawed from the beginning" and "the whole thing was rubbish".
In an intense line of questioning, he asked Adjunct Professor Wilson-Wilde why she wasn't more critical in her official report to the first inquiry.
"There's a difference between talking to journalists and talking to someone more casually, versus writing a scientific report for a court matter," she told the inquiry.
"I do remember clearly being very careful and conscious of not writing anything in the report that I couldn't definitively support with empirical data."
Health Minister Shannon Fentiman said she would wait for the final report from the Commissioner before making any decisions.
BFew
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I can't see any other outcome other than Adjunct Professor Wilson-Wilde being decommissioned from her current role as lab head honcho.
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
The choice on the advisory board of her Scottish colleagues was baffling, but not surprising as well.
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BFew
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Thunderbolts and lightning! 
Queensland’s DNA lab will have to embark on the biggest review and retesting of forensic samples in world history under recommendations that confirm the findings of independent forensic scientist Kirsty Wright.
In a vindication of Dr Wright’s and The Australian’s investigations, the senior lawyer assisting a new commission of inquiry said an automated DNA extraction method was failing from the very beginning and was never fixed.
More than 100,000 crime scene samples from 2007 to 2016 processed with the flawed extraction method will face retesting, it has been estimated.
But the number could rise with the current chief of the lab giving evidence that there will need to be retesting up to the start of 2023.
“This retesting exercise is by far the biggest retesting exercise not only in Australia’s history but in the history of forensic testing,” Dr Wright said Friday.
“It’s unheard of. It would be well over 100,000 crime scene samples.
“We’re talking about thousands and thousands of victims and thousands of violent criminals who are on our streets and in our communities, some of those are still walking the streets today. It’s frightening”
...
he suggested no adverse findings against Dr Wilson-Wilde, and highlighted her work rebuilding the lab and letters of support from staff including whistleblowers at the Sofronoff inquiry.
“What Professor Wilson-Wilde did do is to identify in her report that, quote, `the verification of the automated method is not consistent with expected good practice’,” Mr Fox said.
It was open to the commissioner to find this was an acceptable way of phrasing a scientific opinion, he said.
Dr Wilson-Wilde told the inquiry: “Given the work and the discussions that we’ve had, I’d be advocating that we go back from essentially the beginning of this year to October 2007 and all cases encompassing.”
Dr Bennett will consider the submissions along with the evidence gathered during the brief inquiry and hand her final report to the state government by November 17.
...'
'Shandee Blackburn murder: ‘Biggest retesting operation in history’
'6:05PM NOVEMBER 3, 2023'Queensland’s DNA lab will have to embark on the biggest review and retesting of forensic samples in world history under recommendations that confirm the findings of independent forensic scientist Kirsty Wright.
In a vindication of Dr Wright’s and The Australian’s investigations, the senior lawyer assisting a new commission of inquiry said an automated DNA extraction method was failing from the very beginning and was never fixed.
More than 100,000 crime scene samples from 2007 to 2016 processed with the flawed extraction method will face retesting, it has been estimated.
But the number could rise with the current chief of the lab giving evidence that there will need to be retesting up to the start of 2023.
“This retesting exercise is by far the biggest retesting exercise not only in Australia’s history but in the history of forensic testing,” Dr Wright said Friday.
“It’s unheard of. It would be well over 100,000 crime scene samples.
“We’re talking about thousands and thousands of victims and thousands of violent criminals who are on our streets and in our communities, some of those are still walking the streets today. It’s frightening”
...
he suggested no adverse findings against Dr Wilson-Wilde, and highlighted her work rebuilding the lab and letters of support from staff including whistleblowers at the Sofronoff inquiry.
“What Professor Wilson-Wilde did do is to identify in her report that, quote, `the verification of the automated method is not consistent with expected good practice’,” Mr Fox said.
It was open to the commissioner to find this was an acceptable way of phrasing a scientific opinion, he said.
Dr Wilson-Wilde told the inquiry: “Given the work and the discussions that we’ve had, I’d be advocating that we go back from essentially the beginning of this year to October 2007 and all cases encompassing.”
Dr Bennett will consider the submissions along with the evidence gathered during the brief inquiry and hand her final report to the state government by November 17.
...'
BFew
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Imagine how much money the QLD Government saved over the last nearly 20 years, from all the Government funded work on investigations, prosecutions, legal aid defence, and incarcerations, that did not happen because of this DNA disaster. (sarcasm)
BFew
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A Claytons inquiry.
...
Tuesday’s proceeding under tub rules could have been a troubleshooting meeting at any DNA lab across the country, where opinions and compliments and assessments lobbed back and forth as gently as a game of pickleball.
...
inexplicably, large blocks of time were given over to reports on the progress of rebuilding the lab in the wake of Sofronoff’s raft of recommendations from last year’s inquiry
....
Suddenly the court was filled with words and phrases such as “front-loading of the thinking”, tabulation, applicable standard curves, deep-dive, stakeholder engagement, staff buy-in and risk overlay. No raised ire. No challenging of evidence. No real probing of statements.
...'
'Queensland’s DNA inquiry in a pickle in courtroom'
'7:50PM OCTOBER 31, 2023'...
Tuesday’s proceeding under tub rules could have been a troubleshooting meeting at any DNA lab across the country, where opinions and compliments and assessments lobbed back and forth as gently as a game of pickleball.
...
inexplicably, large blocks of time were given over to reports on the progress of rebuilding the lab in the wake of Sofronoff’s raft of recommendations from last year’s inquiry
....
Suddenly the court was filled with words and phrases such as “front-loading of the thinking”, tabulation, applicable standard curves, deep-dive, stakeholder engagement, staff buy-in and risk overlay. No raised ire. No challenging of evidence. No real probing of statements.
...'
BFew
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2nd Inquiry(Project 13) Transcripts and Exhibits in the one week only inquiry at the below link
www.dnaproject13inquiry.qld.gov.au
'Commission of Inquiry to examine DNA Project 13 concerns'
The latest article (part of) on the case below.
With specific reference to how Project 13 affects the Shandee Blackburn Murder investigations.
'Shandee Blackburn murder: Crime scene evidence routinely destroyed'
'7:02PM NOVEMBER 5, 2023
Potentially crucial forensic evidence from Queensland crimes was routinely discarded for more than a decade, ruining the chance of retesting and worsening the biggest forensic disaster in history.
Shandee Blackburn’s mother is now pressing for answers about whether her murdered daughter’s fingernails, which might have yielded traces of her savage killer, have been destroyed under the policy of discarding forensic evidence
The destruction of original samples from fingernails, cigarette butts, chewing gum and other items from 2010 to 2022 is revealed in a Queensland Health submission to a second commission of inquiry into the state’s DNA lab.
Samples from toothbrushes, straws, stamps and envelopes in the same period have also been destroyed.
The submission reveals a total of 131,323 samples were processed with a flawed DNA extraction system, confirming The Weekend Australian’s reporting on the vast scale of reviews and retesting that will have to be undertaken.
In Ms Blackburn’s case, 47 samples were processed using the failing automated system, according to a report prepared for the Sofronoff inquiry by New Zealand DNA expert Jo Veth.
These include one from a fresh pool of blood in which the lab could detect no DNA, and samples from fingernail clippings from Ms Blackburn’s hands.
The system was also used on 12 samples from the car of Ms Blackburn’s former boyfriend John Peros that tested presumptively positive to blood, and were labelled blood by a police scientific officer, but had no DNA so were ruled out as being blood.
All of the samples will now need to be retested.
However, the practice of discarding select sample types raises the possibility the lab would have destroyed original samples from Ms Blackburn’s fingernail clippings.
Since May 31, 2010, Queensland Health had routinely discarded “substrates”, or the original crime scene samples, of specific items.
The practice only stopped when a “no destruction” notice was issued ahead of last year’s DNA inquiry led by retired judge Walter Sofronoff KC, the department’s submission states.
The substrate is what is left after DNA is extracted from a crime scene sample, and it is this that now needs to be retested because Queensland’s lab was systemically failing to recover DNA.
...'
Hearings - Commission of Inquiry to examine DNA Project 13 concerns
Hearings for the Commission of Inquiry to examine DNA Project 13 concerns
The latest article (part of) on the case below.
With specific reference to how Project 13 affects the Shandee Blackburn Murder investigations.
'Shandee Blackburn murder: Crime scene evidence routinely destroyed'
'By DAVID MURRAY and HEDLEY THOMAS
'7:02PM NOVEMBER 5, 2023Potentially crucial forensic evidence from Queensland crimes was routinely discarded for more than a decade, ruining the chance of retesting and worsening the biggest forensic disaster in history.
Shandee Blackburn’s mother is now pressing for answers about whether her murdered daughter’s fingernails, which might have yielded traces of her savage killer, have been destroyed under the policy of discarding forensic evidence
The destruction of original samples from fingernails, cigarette butts, chewing gum and other items from 2010 to 2022 is revealed in a Queensland Health submission to a second commission of inquiry into the state’s DNA lab.
Samples from toothbrushes, straws, stamps and envelopes in the same period have also been destroyed.
The submission reveals a total of 131,323 samples were processed with a flawed DNA extraction system, confirming The Weekend Australian’s reporting on the vast scale of reviews and retesting that will have to be undertaken.
In Ms Blackburn’s case, 47 samples were processed using the failing automated system, according to a report prepared for the Sofronoff inquiry by New Zealand DNA expert Jo Veth.
These include one from a fresh pool of blood in which the lab could detect no DNA, and samples from fingernail clippings from Ms Blackburn’s hands.
The system was also used on 12 samples from the car of Ms Blackburn’s former boyfriend John Peros that tested presumptively positive to blood, and were labelled blood by a police scientific officer, but had no DNA so were ruled out as being blood.
All of the samples will now need to be retested.
However, the practice of discarding select sample types raises the possibility the lab would have destroyed original samples from Ms Blackburn’s fingernail clippings.
Since May 31, 2010, Queensland Health had routinely discarded “substrates”, or the original crime scene samples, of specific items.
The practice only stopped when a “no destruction” notice was issued ahead of last year’s DNA inquiry led by retired judge Walter Sofronoff KC, the department’s submission states.
The substrate is what is left after DNA is extracted from a crime scene sample, and it is this that now needs to be retested because Queensland’s lab was systemically failing to recover DNA.
...'
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
Finally, got to listening to the latest podcast - this podcast did not miss and I agree with their interpterion of what happened compared to the bureaucrats' version. Nothing has changed my opinion about people and organisations involved just wanting to cover their own behinds and hope that this goes away.
I did laugh about the discussion on Wilson-Wilde calling herself a Professor vs Adjunct Professor or Dr. She then changing her LinkedIn profile and CV...
I made it to A/Prof on the research route and was an Adjunct A/Prof after this for awhile. Now I work as a consultant, no way would I use either of those titles anymore (it's very obvious). However, it does makes the bureaucrats speaking about make her look a bit more important and that's all that seems to matter.
I did laugh about the discussion on Wilson-Wilde calling herself a Professor vs Adjunct Professor or Dr. She then changing her LinkedIn profile and CV...
I made it to A/Prof on the research route and was an Adjunct A/Prof after this for awhile. Now I work as a consultant, no way would I use either of those titles anymore (it's very obvious). However, it does makes the bureaucrats speaking about make her look a bit more important and that's all that seems to matter.
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
My thoughts on Shandee's Legacy Episode 14.
- The minister saying that DNA is too complex for many people to understand, even in police forensics was a "cop out". Employ the right people who know the area or have the ability to learn. DNA is not that hard to understand for a lot of people.
- The public service and Government still trying to sweep everything under the carpet, hoping that it will go away. I don't agree with the Hedley Thomas on everything he does, but this team have done an excellent job bring up issues and are still trying to keep them accountable.
- It's a pity that Newspapers are not read widely anymore, otherwise there would be a lot more outrage.
BFew
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'Forensic Science Queensland Bill 2023'
'Forensic Science Queensland Bill 2023 Explanatory Notes'
'$95 million in immediate measures to address Forensic DNA Commission of Inquiry findings'
www.theguardian.com
'...
The new laws – supported by the government, the Liberal National party and the Greens on Tuesday – establish an independent statutory framework for the newly established Forensic Science Queensland.
The new structure will include an independent director of Forensic Science Queensland, a government office for the director and the Forensic Science Queensland Advisory Council, made up of 11 members.
The director will be appointed by the governor in council on the recommendation of the attorney general and must have a tertiary qualification in a relevant scientific discipline and at least 10 years of practical experience in forensics
The advisory council will contain members of the police, prosecution, defence, victim support, independent forensic science and private legal practice.
The health minister, Shannon Fentiman, praised the family of Shandee Blackburn and Dr Kirsty Wright for their advocacy.
“The bill was developed in response to the 2022 commission of inquiry,” she told parliament on Tuesday.
“The purpose of these dedicated efforts [in the parliament] is to ensure that we have a top class [forensic service system].
“The bill will implement a model of forensic service delivery that no other Australian jurisdiction has.”
...'
'Forensic Science Queensland Bill 2023 Explanatory Notes'
'$95 million in immediate measures to address Forensic DNA Commission of Inquiry findings'
Queensland passes new forensic laws after thousands of DNA samples forced to be re-tested
Government declared last year that more than 100,000 samples may need to be re-tested
The new laws – supported by the government, the Liberal National party and the Greens on Tuesday – establish an independent statutory framework for the newly established Forensic Science Queensland.
The new structure will include an independent director of Forensic Science Queensland, a government office for the director and the Forensic Science Queensland Advisory Council, made up of 11 members.
The director will be appointed by the governor in council on the recommendation of the attorney general and must have a tertiary qualification in a relevant scientific discipline and at least 10 years of practical experience in forensics
The advisory council will contain members of the police, prosecution, defence, victim support, independent forensic science and private legal practice.
The health minister, Shannon Fentiman, praised the family of Shandee Blackburn and Dr Kirsty Wright for their advocacy.
“The bill was developed in response to the 2022 commission of inquiry,” she told parliament on Tuesday.
“The purpose of these dedicated efforts [in the parliament] is to ensure that we have a top class [forensic service system].
“The bill will implement a model of forensic service delivery that no other Australian jurisdiction has.”
...'
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
Not sure why they have to add this. Just get the basics done right first before bragging.
Just like the current Olympics (NRL ground revamp in disguise) debacle that is eventually going to lead to "best games ever". Delusional.
I read and article from the early noughties that suggested that DNA testing didn't belong in the Department of Health because it was mainly done for police DNA. The issue being that because it isn't something they were doing for their own department it didn't get the priority and probably the funding.'Forensic Science Queensland Bill 2023'
'Forensic Science Queensland Bill 2023 Explanatory Notes'
'$95 million in immediate measures to address Forensic DNA Commission of Inquiry findings'
'...Queensland passes new forensic laws after thousands of DNA samples forced to be re-tested
Government declared last year that more than 100,000 samples may need to be re-tested
The new laws – supported by the government, the Liberal National party and the Greens on Tuesday – establish an independent statutory framework for the newly established Forensic Science Queensland.
The new structure will include an independent director of Forensic Science Queensland, a government office for the director and the Forensic Science Queensland Advisory Council, made up of 11 members.
The director will be appointed by the governor in council on the recommendation of the attorney general and must have a tertiary qualification in a relevant scientific discipline and at least 10 years of practical experience in forensics
The advisory council will contain members of the police, prosecution, defence, victim support, independent forensic science and private legal practice.
The health minister, Shannon Fentiman, praised the family of Shandee Blackburn and Dr Kirsty Wright for their advocacy.
“The bill was developed in response to the 2022 commission of inquiry,” she told parliament on Tuesday.
“The purpose of these dedicated efforts [in the parliament] is to ensure that we have a top class [forensic service system].
“The bill will implement a model of forensic service delivery that no other Australian jurisdiction has.”
...'
The issue is going to be is to get the quality of staff given every industry seems to have labour shortages.
I am assuming those that will be doing the testing/restesting will be under the Forensic Science Queensland.
Maybe a few tips to start.
Don't use chemicals for cleaning that can degrade DNA.
Check your results from an automated system if you don't think they are right!
---
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
There are many people who have the right university training to undertake this type of work. IMO it's more about getting the right people into the management and within the police and then obtaining the right balance between costs, reproducibility and throughput. They should just copy best practices from functional DNA analysis labs.
