List Mgmt. The Core-Who stays and who goes;re-signings and departures

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DannyTheDoorman said:
I understand that the club didn't get to offer anything as your club wouldn't trade anything as he was a required player. Media and ill informed people were saying all sorts of crap.
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So was boyd. Yet the doggies(god love em) knew how to trade and knew what they wanted.
This is all on freo and that scum sucking manager. Cam as well.
 
General Giant said:
So was boyd. Yet the doggies(god love em) knew how to trade and knew what they wanted.
This is all on freo and that scum sucking manager. Cam as well.
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If someone wont come to the table you cant lodge your offer as there are 2 parties involved in any negotiation and the circumstances of each trade are are different so there is no point in referring to the Boyd trade. Not getting McCarthy isn't Freo's fault as you like to suggest as your lot didn't want to talk. For me I don't care if we get him or not as I am not one that believes that to get to the Grand Final this year that we needed McCarthy.
 
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DannyTheDoorman said:
If someone wont come to the table you cant lodge your offer as there are 2 parties involved in any negotiation and the circumstances of each trade are are different so there is no point in referring to the Boyd trade. Not getting McCarthy isn't Freo's fault as you like to suggest as your lot didn't want to talk. For me I don't care if we get him or not as I am not one that believes that to get to the Grand Final this year that we needed McCarthy.
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Danny, you're a pretty reasonable poster on the Freo and main boards, so happy to discuss this aspect. What you say is certainly true as a first-order cause-effect, which I think all GWS fans do understand. We also understand that there are elements of the Boyd trade that are quite different. (Such as it was actually Griffen who first asked to be traded out, requiring GWS to come up with trade currency. But then Boyd threw himself up for a trade, which was not to GWS's benefit, which reversed that situation to become more parallel to the current McCarthy situation.) However, the point that we GWS supporters (and General Giant in particular repeatedly) make in the reference to the Boyd situation is that in both cases GWS management stated that they 'would not trade their player under any circumstances'. And yet, the Bulldogs came up with an offer that 'knocked our socks off' and caused GWS management to reverse their position and do a trade. There are enough unaligned supporters who see this comparison.

The point has been often made that the 'spectacular offer' would need to be someone like Lachie Neale plus another high draft pick. Yes, we get that such an offer would need Neale to be willing and it's not likely that he was/would be. That just emphasises the 'spectacular' nature of offer required, and therefore unlikelihood of success. So we accept that there was an extremely low probability of the trade coming off. And GWS (both the club and supporters) I think are entirely comfortable with the outcome, because GWS never wanted to lose McCarthy, and back themselves to change his mind. And if GWS can't, and he leaves in two (or even one) years so be it. I would not expect to get as much in trade currency in two years as would/should have been on offer in the 2015 draft period, as part of the 2015 offer would have needed to be a premium to spring McCarthy 2 years early from his contract. It's not 'stupid' as some posters want to declare. It's just a 'risk', and one that GWS is actually reasonably well-placed to take given its list size and existing KPF situation.
 
People forget, we can actually sit him in reserves for two years and then release him without actually weakening the team.
We wouldn't, but that's not the point, the point is we were very well placed to ensure we didn't follow the release of Boyd with another clearly talented "required" kid the following year.
I hope he goes at the end of the year for everyone's sake, but if his moronic manager keeps opening his mouth he will be backing the club into a place where trading him wouldn't work for us again.
Personally I don't care where he plays, anywhere but Freo would be good.

Sanctimonious whining and crapping on about fair play is bloody ironic coming from Freo, Mark Harvey says Hi, Ro$$ says thankssssss for the cassssssssssssh
 
coniglio_number1 said:
Let's not waste any more time on the s**tstain supporters from that purple franchise
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Giant Strides said:
Danny, you're a pretty reasonable poster on the Freo and main boards, so happy to discuss this aspect. What you say is certainly true as a first-order cause-effect, which I think all GWS fans do understand. We also understand that there are elements of the Boyd trade that are quite different. (Such as it was actually Griffen who first asked to be traded out, requiring GWS to come up with trade currency. But then Boyd threw himself up for a trade, which was not to GWS's benefit, which reversed that situation to become more parallel to the current McCarthy situation.) However, the point that we GWS supporters (and General Giant in particular repeatedly) make in the reference to the Boyd situation is that in both cases GWS management stated that they 'would not trade their player under any circumstances'. And yet, the Bulldogs came up with an offer that 'knocked our socks off' and caused GWS management to reverse their position and do a trade. There are enough unaligned supporters who see this comparison.

The point has been often made that the 'spectacular offer' would need to be someone like Lachie Neale plus another high draft pick. Yes, we get that such an offer would need Neale to be willing and it's not likely that he was/would be. That just emphasises the 'spectacular' nature of offer required, and therefore unlikelihood of success. So we accept that there was an extremely low probability of the trade coming off. And GWS (both the club and supporters) I think are entirely comfortable with the outcome, because GWS never wanted to lose McCarthy, and back themselves to change his mind. And if GWS can't, and he leaves in two (or even one) years so be it. I would not expect to get as much in trade currency in two years as would/should have been on offer in the 2015 draft period, as part of the 2015 offer would have needed to be a premium to spring McCarthy 2 years early from his contract. It's not 'stupid' as some posters want to declare. It's just a 'risk', and one that GWS is actually reasonably well-placed to take given its list size and existing KPF situation.
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Thanks Giant for your positive comments in your detailed response and I agree with most of what you have said except that wanting Neale plus a draft pick would IMO never have got anywhere and I think you have acknowledged that but correct me if I am wrong. Lachie Neale is clearly a better player than Mccarthy and that would have been over what Cam was worth and the Dockers wouldn't ever come to the party for a trade involving Lachie at this point in his career.

Neale was a member of the AA squad and in top 22 of the U/22's this year so he is a recognised talent and spoken highly of by good judges like Dermot Brereton and Gerard Healey etc and Cam is not yet at that level of his development. I don't want to turn this into a Freo v GWS argument as that isn't appropriate but look forward to watching some good footy by both our clubs.

I am an advocate for building our forward line for post Pav days from what we have already got.So if I was Ross I wouldn't be bothered waiting on McCarthy but would rely on a good development program to deliver up as a KPF either Taberner or Apeness or Alex Pearce or even our International rookie (Hurley) with more games under their belt in 2016. Have a great Xmas.
 
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DannyTheDoorman said:
I agree with most of what you have said except that wanting Neale plus a draft pick would IMO never have got anywhere and I think you have acknowledged that. Lachie Neale is clearly a better player than Mccarthy and that would have been over what Cam was worth and the Dockers wouldn't ever come to the party for a trade involving Lachie at this point in his career. Neale was a member of the AA squad and in top 22 of the U/22's this year so he is a recognised talent and spoken highly of by good judges like Dermot Brereton and Gerard Healey etc and Cam is not yet at that level of his development.

I am an advocate for building our forward line for post Pav days from what we have already got. So if I was Ross I wouldn't be bothered waiting on McCarthy but would rely on a good development program to deliver up as a KPF either Taberner or Apeness or Alex Pearce or even our International rookie (Hurley) with more games under their belt in 2016. Have a great Xmas.
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I don't disagree ... just we look at the facts with differing interpretations. Fyfe would obviously be not a trade option, but apart from Neale, the Freo players tend to fall into two categories, neither of which are attractive to GWS: experienced but over 25, or young but unproven. (Yes, I acknowledge that one season does not make Sunshine a 'proven' player, but has shown more results at this stage of career than Apeness or Taberner, with due respect.) The couple that roughly fit the age/games demographic are either not that highly rated, West Australian, or don't fill a GWS need. So, the point was Lachie Neale or trading for lower draft picks (which to be honest wasn't greatly attractive to GWS in 2015) were the only possible attractive options for a trade. I'll leave the argument about respective trade values as a moot point. Ultimately, I agree that nothing Freo was willing to give up would have moved GWS.

So, I don't disagree with either your view or the Freo outcome, which is to invest in your young players and play the long game on McCarthy. Similarly, GWS will try to win games, make the finals and convince Sunshine that playing for GWS rather than Freo is better in the long run.

Merry Christmas to you, and I look forward to some tight tussles between our respective teams in the future.
 

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Might be time for a new thread.

OP to include all OOC players with live updates as that quickly changes
OP to include detailed bios on all standout academy prospects
OP to include all current draft selections we hold so nuffies understand how we got them and tha they weren't more handouts/concessions
OP to include therapeutic message for those of us who venture into the saint kilda rumor thread and/or the Fremantle obsession thread

So who wants to be OP
 
coniglio_number1 said:
Might be time for a new thread.

OP to include all OOC players with live updates as that quickly changes
OP to include detailed bios on all standout academy prospects
OP to include all current draft selections we hold so nuffies understand how we got them and tha they weren't more handouts/concessions
OP to include therapeutic message for those of us who venture into the saint kilda rumor thread and/or the Fremantle obsession thread

So who wants to be OP
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I vote you

Good luck.
 
coniglio_number1 said:
Are you ok mate, your acting like you've been brainwashed by a cult
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Not at all.

After my disgusting negativity towards certain people, wether warrented or not, i was given a holiday.

During this time i have found the power of postivity and in this New Day of a New Year it is something to strive for.

No more cranky General Giant, its Generous Giant all the way.
 
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