The Darcy Daniher Debacle

[Oggy's cousin]

This looms as a MASSIVE stuff up from the AFL, again.

Evidently he was very good in the Grand Final on the weekend. Under the new bidding system, it appears that some clubs are willing to bet their first pick on him.

He is not worth Essendon's first pick (no. 6) so there's every chance he will be going elsewhere.

What an absolute disgrace that would be. Imagine if that happened to Gary Ablett the outcry that would have occurred from Geelong supporters.

They should just leave the rule as a third round pick. You win on some and lose on some. Take Geelong for instance, they took players like Hawkins in the third round who was a top 5 pick. But they also took a punt on Scarlett, who was not rated very highly. It evens itself out.

Adrian Anderson's head needs to roll for this, and other stuff ups. And Kevin bartlett. I f * rking hate him. Why is he still involved in anything, he has a warped view on the game.

Him, Anderson and jeff Gieschen my 3 most hated people in the AFL.

 

[-VC-]

1) I doubt anyone would bid a first rounder for him. Let them have him if they want to pay that much...

2) IF someone bid their first rounder for him then his nominated club, let's say Essendon, would use their NEXT draft selection on him. So that would be their second rounder.

 

[LukeHodge15]

In a very weak draft, thats about where he is ranked - 25ish. So it all equates to being pretty fair IMO.

 

[-VC-]

It's almost like a game of chicken if you think about it.

Does a team bid over the odds for him with their first rounder and assume that Essendon (or Sydney I guess, but isn't it Darcy's choice?) will be happy to put up their second rounder. Or do they play it safe, bid the second rounder that he's worth and let his F/S club get him in the third round, which is probably a touch late for him.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Evidently he was very good in the Grand Final on the weekend. Under the new bidding system, it appears that some clubs are willing to bet their first pick on him.

What new bidding system?

Scratch that. I just looked up Wikipedia and there it is.

Stupid amendment. Why can't the AFL just stop ****ing up simple rules?

 

[LukeHodge15]

It's almost like a game of chicken if you think about it.

Does a team bid over the odds for him with their first rounder and assume that Essendon (or Sydney I guess, but isn't it Darcy's choice?) will be happy to put up their second rounder. Or do they play it safe, bid the second rounder that he's worth and let his F/S club get him in the third round, which is probably a touch late for him.

Very True, wonder which clubs will have the balls to play the game.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

If someone bids Pick #1-#5, Essendon would have to use pick #6, but that isn't going to happen.

If someone bids Pick #7-#22, Essendon will have to use pick #23 to get him. This is a pretty likely situation, IMO, and pick #23 seems about fair for Darcy.

If someone bids Pick #24-#38, Essendon will have to use pick #39 to get him, which would be the best case scenario, and a lucky get.

My suggestion would be not to whinge unless you know what you're talking about.

 

[Bomba Sheldon]

If someone bids Pick #1-#5, Essendon would have to use pick #6, but that isn't going to happen.

If someone bids Pick #7-#22, Essendon will have to use pick #23 to get him. This is a pretty likely situation, IMO, and pick #23 seems about fair for Darcy.

If someone bids Pick #24-#38, Essendon will have to use pick #39 to get him, which would be the best case scenario, and a lucky get.

My suggestion would be not to whinge unless you know what you're talking about.

OUCH!!!!!!

Personally I wouldnt shed a tear if Essendon sacrificed a low pick for a player below par. But before we jump the gun lets see how this new system transpires before we put the boots into the AFL (even though i dont mind this). People are critical for Geelong prospering on the F/S rule (and good luck to them) let see what happens with this first.

 

[samthemanlonergan]

If someone bids Pick #1-#5, Essendon would have to use pick #6, but that isn't going to happen.

If someone bids Pick #7-#22, Essendon will have to use pick #23 to get him. This is a pretty likely situation, IMO, and pick #23 seems about fair for Darcy.

If someone bids Pick #24-#38, Essendon will have to use pick #39 to get him, which would be the best case scenario, and a lucky get.

My suggestion would be not to whinge unless you know what you're talking about.

What happens if the highest bid is 40? Or nobody bids at all? Does this rule run beyond the 3rd round?

 

[2freakindeadley]

What happens if say Bulldogs says he is worth there 5th and dont take him, Bombers dont at 6 but then come in at at 21 before bombers pick do. Open up for abuse if you ask me

 

[-VC-]

What happens if say Bulldogs says he is worth there 5th and dont take him, Bombers dont at 6 but then come in at at 21 before bombers pick do. Open up for abuse if you ask me

If the Bulldogs say they'll take him at 5 then they would be committed to taking him at 5.

 

[Sharp9]

I'm not sure that that complicated system is right. I can't find any details on AFL.com

I thought that it was the club chooses what pick it will give up and any other club can offer an earlier ROUND (not pick) and the nominated club would then have to match the ROUND.

This is less of a bonus for Essendon (obviously).

As for the original post about it being a farce....are you f**** joking? The whole point of this is to stop the farce which we HAVE been having,

J. Brown
T. Cloke
G. Ablett
N. Ablett
T. Hawkins

It is an absolute disgrace that the clubs did not have to use a fair pick for the f/s pick-ups.

All would have been top 5 picks. It's a joke and I'm very pleased that (at last) something is being done.

Of course next year will probably see Sydney's first ever gun f/s pick....just in time to lose him to Collingwood

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Jimmy Bartel to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 8 on Ablett not #40)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Joel Selwood to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 7 on Hawkins not #41)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Brad Ottens to Geelong practically for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 14 on N. Ablett not #48)


That's three pretty hany players gifted to Geelong.

I look forward to the first fair and squarely won premiership. There hasn't been one since 1999

Essendon - Salary Cap Breaches - Fletcher
Brisbane - Brown. Possible to argue that extra cap allowance made it easier to get/keep stars.
Port - Start-up picks
Sydney - It's possible to argue that the zone picks Roberts-Thomson, Barry and Mathews made a difference...except that no-one else wanted them so we payed fair market value. Possible to argue that extra cap allowance made it easier to get/keep stars Hall and Ball
West Coast - Drug Cheats
Geelong - Three massive players in Selwood, Ottens and Bartel gifted by very unfair f/s system

 

[-VC-]

The Ablett brothers were not considered top prospects mate. One has come good and one looks to be coming good. Truth be told, if it wasn't for his name Nathan wouldn't be on an AFL list.

 

[AlecDuncan]

As for the original post about it being a farce....are you f**** joking? The whole point of this is to stop the farce which we HAVE been having,

J. Brown
T. Cloke
G. Ablett
N. Ablett
T. Hawkins

It is an absolute disgrace that the clubs did not have to use a fair pick for the f/s pick-ups.

Completely disagree. It was fine for twenty years. It would have been fine now, and fine forever. I have no problems with those father-son selections.

This new system is a balls-up and it just shits me that the AFL knee-jerks these stupid rules into existence every year.

 

[Sharp9]

The Ablett brothers were not considered top prospects mate. One has come good and one looks to be coming good. Truth be told, if it wasn't for his name Nathan wouldn't be on an AFL list.

Are you joking? Everyone knew they were guns.

 

[Sharp9]

Completely disagree. It was fine for twenty years. It would have been fine now, and fine forever. I have no problems with those father-son selections.

This new system is a balls-up and it just shits me that the AFL knee-jerks these stupid rules into existence every year.

Well call me old fashioned, but any system that was blatantly unfair is not "fine for twenty years" with me. Did you get Lloyd as well as Fletcher? Naturally it would all be fine with you.

It is so typical of Essendon and Collingwood supporters to approve of anything inequitable in the system AS LONG AS THEY GET TO BENEFIT. but gee, try to make it fair for the others (or a teensy bit unfair) and see the squealing!! Remeber eddie and the salary cap allowance...screamed blue murder.."but we'll have travis Cloke for pick #60, thanks....and 18 games in melbourne is just an unfoortunate price to pay for being so well, wonderful!!!"

Now you.....God forbid that you should draft Darcy Daniher with a FAIR PICK. hell no....we are Essendon we should get an unfair advantage and pick up a top 10 or 20 player with pick #39 (like you did last year with Neagle (or whatever his name is), let's not forget!!!!)

Sheesh, I guess the idea of an Australian "fair go for everyone" is completely foreign to you, obviously

it'll probably turn out he's only worth a 3rd round anyway.

 

[GPW1]

Are you joking? Everyone knew they were guns.

so why was nathan playing at modewarre rather than geelong falcons?

 

[ChipDouglas]

1) I doubt anyone would bid a first rounder for him. Let them have him if they want to pay that much...

2) IF someone bid their first rounder for him then his nominated club, let's say Essendon, would use their NEXT draft selection on him. So that would be their second rounder.

I doubt any of the clubs picking before Essendon in the second round will put in a bid. He'll more than likely go to Bombers and the price will be their third round selection.

 

[Team Chemistry]

I'm not sure that that complicated system is right. I can't find any details on AFL.com

I thought that it was the club chooses what pick it will give up and any other club can offer an earlier ROUND (not pick) and the nominated club would then have to match the ROUND.

This is less of a bonus for Essendon (obviously).

As for the original post about it being a farce....are you f**** joking? The whole point of this is to stop the farce which we HAVE been having,

J. Brown
T. Cloke
G. Ablett
N. Ablett
T. Hawkins

It is an absolute disgrace that the clubs did not have to use a fair pick for the f/s pick-ups.

All would have been top 5 picks. It's a joke and I'm very pleased that (at last) something is being done.

Of course next year will probably see Sydney's first ever gun f/s pick....just in time to lose him to Collingwood

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Jimmy Bartel to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 8 on Ablett not #40)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Joel Selwood to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 7 on Hawkins not #41)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Brad Ottens to Geelong practically for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 14 on N. Ablett not #48)


That's three pretty hany players gifted to Geelong.

I look forward to the first fair and squarely won premiership. There hasn't been one since 1999

Essendon - Salary Cap Breaches - Fletcher
Brisbane - Brown. Possible to argue that extra cap allowance made it easier to get/keep stars.
Port - Start-up picks
Sydney - It's possible to argue that the zone picks Roberts-Thomson, Barry and Mathews made a difference...except that no-one else wanted them so we payed fair market value. Possible to argue that extra cap allowance made it easier to get/keep stars Hall and Ball
West Coast - Drug Cheats
Geelong - Three massive players in Selwood, Ottens and Bartel gifted by very unfair f/s system

I think your just bitter as your club at this stage isnt getting the luck that we've had. The father/son rule should never have changed as it keeps what little tradition is left in the AFL and the F/S rule is all about luck.

Btw, here saying that Geelong shouldve had to use their first pick on Ablett shows that you've just assumed he was considered to be in the top 5 of that draft at the time. Geelong were going to take him no matter what and he wasnt rated in the best 20 of that draft so that point is quite invalid. Again with Geelong many of our F/S draftees havent been rated highly in the past. Tim Callan who well may leave this year, Nathan Ablett who wasnt playing U18's and many clubs wouldnt have even known existed and Matty Scarlett who wasnt rated that highly at all.

It is a farce that they changed the system that is all about luck.

TC

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I'm not sure that that complicated system is right. I can't find any details on AFL.com

As for the original post about it being a farce....are you f**** joking? The whole point of this is to stop the farce which we HAVE been having,

J. Brown
T. Cloke
G. Ablett
N. Ablett
T. Hawkins

It is an absolute disgrace that the clubs did not have to use a fair pick for the f/s pick-ups.

All would have been top 5 picks. It's a joke and I'm very pleased that (at last) something is being done.

Of course next year will probably see Sydney's first ever gun f/s pick....just in time to lose him to Collingwood

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Jimmy Bartel to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 8 on Ablett not #40)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Joel Selwood to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 7 on Hawkins not #41)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Brad Ottens to Geelong practically for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 14 on N. Ablett not #48)


That's three pretty hany players gifted to Geelong.

Some knowledge of histroy would have bene good before posting on this subject.

Gary Jr was rated as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Nathan was not rated at all.

Hawkins I will give you.

 

[-VC-]

Are you joking? Everyone knew they were guns.

Gary Ablett was considered draftable, but not a gun prospect. I wasn't following the draft back then but wasn't he pretty much considered to be about a third rounder. Certainly not an elite prospect anyway.

Nathan Ablett was very obscure. The fact that there was a media circus surrounding a really shy kid is what may have given some the impression that he was a gun junior. If his name wasn't Nathan Ablett 1) no one, including AFL scouts would know who he is; 2) the Cats wouldn't have perservered so hard to convince him to play AFL.

 

[Merv]

Well call me old fashioned, but any system that was blatantly unfair is not "fine for twenty years" with me. Did you get Lloyd as well as Fletcher? Naturally it would all be fine with you.

It is so typical of Essendon and Collingwood supporters to approve of anything inequitable in the system AS LONG AS THEY GET TO BENEFIT. but gee, try to make it fair for the others (or a teensy bit unfair) and see the squealing!! Remeber eddie and the salary cap allowance...screamed blue murder.."but we'll have travis Cloke for pick #60, thanks....and 18 games in melbourne is just an unfoortunate price to pay for being so well, wonderful!!!"

Now you.....God forbid that you should draft Darcy Daniher with a FAIR PICK. hell no....we are Essendon we should get an unfair advantage and pick up a top 10 or 20 player with pick #39 (like you did last year with Neagle (or whatever his name is), let's not forget!!!!)

Sheesh, I guess the idea of an Australian "fair go for everyone" is completely foreign to you, obviously

it'll probably turn out he's only worth a 3rd round anyway.

LOL, before you fly off the handle with your spiel, take a bit more time next time.

The person you quoted supports carlton

 

[Sharp9]

so why was nathan playing at modewarre rather than geelong falcons?

"cos he didn't want to play in Geelong...wanted to stay with his mates. Was VERY highly rated as a gun with little (or no) ambition.

Maybe no other club would have bid first round 'cos they might not have backed themselves to get him to play, but I don't know.

G. Ablett....one of us has a shocking memory (probably me, then) but I distinctly remember getting mad at the time that Geelong were picking up a bloke everyone though would be a gun for practiacally nothing. I know Tim Callan so I'm aware of how highly Geelong rated Ablett and that they asked Tim not to nominate for the draft that year so that they could take Ablett. (on the promise that they would take him the following year, which, of course, they did).

No way would G. Ablett have got to the second round if he had gone into that draft as a free player. No way and you know it.

 

[Thommo 42]

I'm not sure that that complicated system is right. I can't find any details on AFL.com

I thought that it was the club chooses what pick it will give up and any other club can offer an earlier ROUND (not pick) and the nominated club would then have to match the ROUND.

This is less of a bonus for Essendon (obviously).

As for the original post about it being a farce....are you f**** joking? The whole point of this is to stop the farce which we HAVE been having,

J. Brown
T. Cloke
G. Ablett
N. Ablett
T. Hawkins

It is an absolute disgrace that the clubs did not have to use a fair pick for the f/s pick-ups.

All would have been top 5 picks. It's a joke and I'm very pleased that (at last) something is being done.

Of course next year will probably see Sydney's first ever gun f/s pick....just in time to lose him to Collingwood

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Jimmy Bartel to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 8 on Ablett not #40)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Joel Selwood to Geelong for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 7 on Hawkins not #41)

Does everyone realise that this appalling system gave Brad Ottens to Geelong practically for FREE? (Geelong should have used pick 14 on N. Ablett not #48)


That's three pretty hany players gifted to Geelong.

I look forward to the first fair and squarely won premiership. There hasn't been one since 1999

Essendon - Salary Cap Breaches - Fletcher
Brisbane - Brown. Possible to argue that extra cap allowance made it easier to get/keep stars.
Port - Start-up picks
Sydney - It's possible to argue that the zone picks Roberts-Thomson, Barry and Mathews made a difference...except that no-one else wanted them so we payed fair market value. Possible to argue that extra cap allowance made it easier to get/keep stars Hall and Ball
West Coast - Drug Cheats
Geelong - Three massive players in Selwood, Ottens and Bartel gifted by very unfair f/s system

G Ablett was rated as a late first rounder, early second rounder at best. He was in the 2001 draft!!

N Ablett was known to have a fair bit of talent, but no club other than Geelong wold have been prepared to take the risk, nor would he have even played for any other club.

Brown, Cloke and Hawkins were all Top 5 selections - but thats the thing about father/son selections. They allow for what little romance there is left in our game.

I'm sure you'd be happy to see the offspring of Paul Kelly, Barry Hall, Brett Kirk and Co running around in a Swans jumper in 20 years - wouldn't you? Nobody would begrudge you that.

I'm totally against the new bidding system. Look at Collingwood - in the past 5 years we've used 7 father/son selections. Two are good players in our best 22, one is still on our list but didn't play finals and four were duds. It's not a guarantee of anything.

Richmond chose not to grab Raines on father/son because a 3rd rounder was too much to pay for him, the picked him up in the 4th round anyway. He has proven to be a decent pickup that late, but it can go both ways.

I'd love to get the picks we used on Jason Cloke, Cameron Cloke & Brayden Shaw back, but thems the breaks.

 

[Sharp9]

I think your just bitter as your club at this stage isnt getting the luck that we've had. The father/son rule should never have changed as it keeps what little tradition is left in the AFL and the F/S rule is all about luck.

Btw, here saying that Geelong shouldve had to use their first pick on Ablett shows that you've just assumed he was considered to be in the top 5 of that draft at the time. Geelong were going to take him no matter what and he wasnt rated in the best 20 of that draft so that point is quite invalid. Again with Geelong many of our F/S draftees havent been rated highly in the past. Tim Callan who well may leave this year, Nathan Ablett who wasnt playing U18's and many clubs wouldnt have even known existed and Matty Scarlett who wasnt rated that highly at all.

It is a farce that they changed the system that is all about luck.

TC

You are RIGHT. I'm bitter that you had UNBELIEVABLE luck and we had none.

So you are admitting that the system is unfair....or in your words, you got "lucky."

My point exactly.

You also agree with me that the father son rule should stay. Excellent. Al I'm asking is that the team using APPROPRIATE draft picks to get their father/son players. what could be fairer than that?

Not sure what you are saying about Callan...but it seems you are agreeing that the picks you used on them were fair. That's exactly what I'm saying as well. Callan was a 3rd round pick on the open market...so were Scarlett and Blake.

So you agree that you should pay market rate for average players, but that you should also be allowed to get "lucky" and not pay market rate when a Hawkins comes along....Good one!

Why are you so against fairness, I don't understand, honestly.